Three treasons for Dany

[Lady Blackfish]

I think the Targs are meant to be above the gods, regular rules don't apply to them. I never got a sense of nastiness or grossness whenever Targ incest was brought up, and that's what made it jarring. Everyone just totally accepts it because, well, they're Targaryens.

I don't get Jon/Dany either. I mean yeah sure it's possible, but I never felt it was particularly telegraphed.

Tyrion/Dany, I halfway do expect in some form, but in some totally pathetic and cynical form.

[Datepalm]

Pitifully, if Daario is any indicator, Euron even appears to be Dany's type.

:rofl: So true. Hes old enough to be her father a few times over though...

[3idcrow]

... three fires must you light ... one for life and one for death and one to love

... three mounts must you ride ... one to bed and one to dread and one to love

... three treasons will you know ... once for blood and once for gold and once for love ...

Based on the previous events in Dany’s life I made several assumption about this prophesy. First, they happen in the chronological order: first, second then third, but not necessarily fire-mount-treason. In Drogo’s case first came a mount then treason and lastly – fire. Second, each of the connected triplets (fire-mount-treason) doesn’t necessarily describe the same subject that acts in all three parts but rather the same timeframe in Dany’s life, the same sequence of events with a dramatic life-altering ending. In this case it doesn’t even matter if a mount is actually Silver or Drogo, there’s an association between the two and both of them belong to the same timeframe.

I think Dany will marry again. She’ll have two more husbands.

The idea of marriage was first raised by Jorah, who said that Aegon the Conqueror had two sisters – two wives and while Dany ran out of brothers she still can take husbands. No doubt he envisioned himself as one of them. Even though the poor old bastard is currently out of picture the idea of marriage didn’t go away with him, Dany thought about it more than once. She wants to have two men to trust and a sexual aspect of a marriage is not unwelcomed by her.

Anyway, back at the House of Undying she had a vision:

Her silver was trotting through the grass, to a darkling stream beneath a sea of stars. A corpse stood at the prow of a ship, eyes bright in his dead face, grey lips smiling sadly. A blue flower grew from a chink in a wall of ice. And filled the air with sweetness…

I think this vision describes her three husbands. Silver is associated with Drogo who was indeed Dany’s first husband (I’m very proud to be able to spot it! :D Next I’ll be claiming that Sandor and Gregor are brothers).

Blue flower on a wall of ice points towards a certain Targaryan (putative) prince, currently on a Wall. The sweetness of this image foretells the feeling of their marriage; this husband will be the one to love. SOIAF is full of loveless political marriages, it would be a relief to have one with love and compassion and sacrifice. BTW, Dany has nothing against an incest, she was ready to marry Vyseris all her life. Jon... I have no idea.

I’d risk presuming that the second one is Victarion. I feel some sad tenderness in his description that makes me believing that he will mean something to Dany, not necessarily a loved one, but the one whose death makes you sad, you know? We know that Euron sent Victarion to fetch him a bride but Victarion plans to take Dany for himself. I hope he will recognize that she is not the one to be taken, but rather the one to belong to.

(I have a soft spot for this old fool. The image of someone who is not the brightest bulb in a chandelier but is good with his hands, the one who is always used by more ambitious and intelligent and successful members of his family strikes a familiar note with me. ;) )

So, here it is: Dany takes Victarion as her husband and takes his Iron Fleet. Then Old Fool is betrayed for money and killed and to avenge his death Dany lights her fire for death…

[Miriel]

..

I’d risk presuming that the second one is Victarion. I feel some sad tenderness in his description that makes me believing that he will mean something to Dany, not necessarily a loved one, but the one whose death makes you sad, you know? We know that Euron sent Victarion to fetch him a bride but Victarion plans to take Dany for himself. I hope he will recognize that she is not the one to be taken, but rather the one to belong to.

(I have a soft spot for this old fool. The image of someone who is not the brightest bulb in a chandelier but is good with his hands, the one who is always used by more ambitious and intelligent and successful members of his family strikes a familiar note with me. ;) )

So, here it is: Dany takes Victarion as her husband and takes his Iron Fleet. Then Old Fool is betrayed for money and killed and to avenge his death Dany lights her fire for death…

Nice analysis! You do seem to have overlooked that whole "beating your beloved wife to death with your own hands" thing. But other than that, nice job.

[Liadin]

Nice analysis! You do seem to have overlooked that whole "beating your beloved wife to death with your own hands" thing. But other than that, nice job.

Yeah, if that's how he reacted the first time (and I forget, wasn't there the possibility that Euron had actually raped the wife?) I can't imagine how he'd deal with Dany.

Besides, an Ironborn couldn't deal with a wife who's powerful in her own right. That would be a bad marriage right from the get-go.

[3idcrow]

Nice analysis! You do seem to have overlooked that whole "beating your beloved wife to death with your own hands" thing. But other than that, nice job.

Yeah, I know, that was an awful thing to do. I don't really approve it, honestly! :tantrum:

But he also didn't think it was a good thing to do, it really bothered him, IMO. I liked how he fought and the way he praised ser Serry (?) for his courage and even asked about him after the battle. He disapproved the way the family of the defeated lord ( don't remember his name) was treated... He took the dusky woman when Euron threatened to kill her... I imagine in Ironborn scale of virtues it would look pretty cool if he was like: "Kill her, see if I care" and just watched her die... But anyway, killing a wife with his own hands, maybe even a pregnant wife was a nasty business.

[3idcrow]

Yeah, if that's how he reacted the first time (and I forget, wasn't there the possibility that Euron had actually raped the wife?) I can't imagine how he'd deal with Dany.

Besides, an Ironborn couldn't deal with a wife who's powerful in her own right. That would be a bad marriage right from the get-go.

Yes, it would be hard for him to accept Dany's authority but wouldn't it be also an interesting development? Her "blood of the dragon" temper with his ironborn ways, with her need for a man to trust and his misplaced obidience, her need of a fleet, his need of revenge, her dragom problems, his knowledge of a certain horn... I see a hope for them. Not for any kind of a great love, he would be the one to dread, after all, but a hope of an honest allegiance.

[Liadin]

Yes, it would be hard for him to accept Dany's authority but wouldn't it be also an interesting development? Her "blood of the dragon" temper with his ironborn ways, with her need for a man to trust and his misplaced obidience, her need of a fleet, his need of revenge, her dragom problems, his knowledge of a certain horn... I see a hope for them. Not for any kind of a great love, he would be the one to dread, after all, but a hope of an honest allegiance.

Oh, I agree, it would be interesting.

I'm just leery of any romanticization of a man who beat his wife to death. If Dany just dreaded him I wouldn't object, but you seem to be suggesting something much more.... nuanced?

[Miriel]

(and I forget, wasn't there the possibility that Euron had actually raped the wife?)

Yes, I think that was strongly implied. Asha asks Victarion about it and says she (Asha) was away when Euron's ship sailed, but when she came home, Euron was gone, Victarions' wife was dead, and Balon would not speak of the death of the wife. The implication I drew is that Euron raped the wife, Victarion killed her, and Euron was exiled by Balon a punishment.

[3idcrow]

Oh, I agree, it would be interesting.

I'm just leery of any romanticization of a man who beat his wife to death. If Dany just dreaded him I wouldn't object, but you seem to be suggesting something much more.... nuanced?

I don't see any love between them and it's not what a prophesy suggests either. I just hope for a mutual trust and an honest allegiance of two people with common interests. I hope Dany will find a man to trust to and Victarion will find a leader who is worth of his devotion. A good and warm relationship can be built on such foundation without any evident romance.

However, my wishes are seldom granted… :angry2:

[Imagica]

Personally, I'm kinda squicked by the thought of Dany falling in love with a guy thrice her age, not to mention other aspects.

And romanticizing Victarion after what he has done to his wife? No, just no.

I'd prefer (possible) incest rather than that.

[Mad Monkey]

And romanticizing Victarion after what he has done to his wife? No, just no.

Daenerys killed her husband too. They belong together, roasting in Hell for all eternity. :smug:

[Liadin]

Daenerys killed her husband too. They belong together, roasting in Hell for all eternity. :smug:

Pffff. Euthanasia =/= savagely beating someone to death for the crime of being raped.

And romanticizing Victarion after what he has done to his wife? No, just no.

I'd prefer (possible) incest rather than that.

I probably would too, and I really don't want to see any romanticized incest.

[3idcrow]

Personally, I'm kinda squicked by the thought of Dany falling in love with a guy thrice her age, not to mention other aspects.

And romanticizing Victarion after what he has done to his wife? No, just no.

I'd prefer (possible) incest rather than that.

He is not the one to love. He is the one to dread.

[Mad Monkey]

Pffff. Euthanasia =/= savagely beating someone to death for the crime of being raped.

Daenerys's attorney is free to argue that at trial. All I know is that she put a pillow over an unconscious person's face and smothered him to death. "Mount to love" indeed! :lol:

How old is Euron, anyway? I could see him or Victarion as one of the "non-love" mounts.

[Imagica]

I always imagined them as 40 to 50, myself. Though that's pure conjecture, and it's been ages since I've read the latter half of ASOIAF.

And anyway, this thread has convinced me that mounts don't mean lovers. Dany, of course, will get her love interest one way or another... well, let it be Quentin, for example (hope he's not gay or something), at least he's young, probably not hideous and not her relative: that's more than any other "candidate" can offer :P (though we don't really know about Jon; sometimes it seems that R+L=J is too overspread everywhere)

[Alexia]

:rofl: So true. Hes old enough to be her father a few times over though...

How old is he? I envisioned him as being in his early-mid 30s, which doesn't seem too bad by Westerosi standards. Personally, Euron both scares and revolts me right through the pages of the book but I never thought his age was a factor.

[Liadin]

How old is he? I envisioned him as being in his early-mid 30s, which doesn't seem too bad by Westerosi standards. Personally, Euron both scares and revolts me right through the pages of the book but I never thought his age was a factor.

Given that Balon's oldest children would have been in their mid to late 20s and IIRC Balon and his siblings all had the same mother, I would guess Victarion is over 40 and Euron closer to 50.

[Miriel]

Given that Balon's oldest children would have been in their mid to late 20s and IIRC Balon and his siblings all had the same mother, I would guess Victarion is over 40 and Euron closer to 50.

A trivial point: Balon, Euron, and Victarion are all from the same mother, but Grandad Greyjoy had been married before-- and then married again after Balon's mum passed away.

(That was my worthless AFFC trivia moment of the day! Now back to your regularly scheduled discussion).

[Alexia]

Given that Balon's oldest children would have been in their mid to late 20s and IIRC Balon and his siblings all had the same mother, I would guess Victarion is over 40 and Euron closer to 50.

Wouldn't that put Balon at around 50 or so and his siblings younger? So maybe Euron is closer to 40 (still old for Dany though)?

For curiosity, why did you put Euron so much older than Victarion?