Three treasons for Dany

[Errant Bard]

The second vision is a corpse on a ship with bright eyes and a dead face whose grey lips are smiling sadly. Grey lips smiling=Greyjoy.

Obligatory: "smiling sadly"= not joy

[winterqueen]

Obligatory: "smiling sadly"= not joy

I agree, I never saw this as a Greyjoy. In my mind, I always thought the 'smiling sadly' on the ship was a dying Maester Aemon. Maester Aemon is sad he doesn't live long enough to meet Dany and her dragons but is happy that the dragons have returned. Just my 2 cents....

[Lummel]

Is there any motivation on the part of the inhabitants of the house of the undieing to give truthful or accurate information about the future? Weren't they just trying to suck the life out of Dany anyway?

Corpse on a ship smilling sadly with grey lips could be UnCat - boats are used as part of the Tully funeral rites.

I suppose I am thinking of Marwyn's opinion of prophecy at the end of AFFC. The prophecys and visions that we have seen so far that relate to the future are obscure, they don't seem to have a clear and unambigious meaning, we can still argue over whether they have even come to pass yet - is Mormont's betrayal the betrayal for love or is he the betrayal for money or do the undieing tell Dany that she will be betrayed three times for three different reasons because it's a fairly safe bet that she will be betrayed, or that something will happen that can be understood as a betrayal, more than once and very probably for different reasons?

Surely the point about the prophecies is how they make Dany think differently. She looking out for the betrayals and looking for the events and people and people that she can fit into the catagories given to her by the Undieing. If the prophecies lead her to become mistrustful and to be on the look out for traitors this could be a clue about the bittersweet ending of the series.

[Lady Winter Rose]

I want to touch a specific part of the prophecy - Daughter of Death, Slayer of Lies, and Bride of Fire.

You forget something (or someone): Child of Three (or somehow similar)

A cloth dragon swayed on poles amidst a cheering crowd... A corpse stood at the prow of a ship, eyes bright in his dead face, grey lips smiling sadly. A blue flower grew from a chink in a wall of ice, and filled the air with sweetness. . . .

1# A cloth dragon

SPOILER from ADWD:

some mummer dragon should come in Mereen.

2# A corpse

This is Mr. You Don't Have a Clue About Me.

3# A blue flower

This could be Jon raising as Lord Commander, love connection between Jon and Dany, or real flower growing from a chink in a wall of ice.

When I was first time reading this images, I always think that she look what she is going to look with her two eyes. The only thing that doesn't fit in in this resolution is tall lord. But tall lord could be someone else (Bittersteel's pretender) and blue flower.

[Dark Knight]

child of three is not connected to the other 3 titles, because:

1. it wasn't mantioned together with the other 3 titles, but much before - even before the treasons/fires/mounts.

2. it didn't have 3 visions, or any visions, precceeding it.

3. it ruins the wonderful setting of three triplets:P .

[winterqueen]

Winter Dawn,

I like your idea on the tall lord being a possible Bittersteel pretender. It would be too easy to be a "what if" Rhaego. Dany already had a vision of Rhaego when Mirri Maz Duur is doing her crazy blood magic.

[TheFinn]

I'm interested in this Mummer's Dragon angle.... but how could a Bittersteel pretender gather any popular support in Westeros? Like they don't already have their fill of kings without foreign pretenders? How would a pretender to that family lineage get any traction without dragons considering Dany's lineage is far cleaner and she has three? How on earth would anyone build a convincing case for being Aegon without any real evidence?

I don't think Varys would help a pretender - he likely is a Targaryen ("Vaerys?") who would obviously support Dany.

It's interesting that the dragon breathing shadow fire is a different lie for Dany to expose than Stanly as Prince That Was Promised. That leads me to think that maybe the shadow dragon isn't Melisandre's creature after all.... Stanly is Melisandre's creature.

I do buy the idea that Dany is forced to wed a Greyjoy to gain access to ships. That's quite dreadful even if it's a live one.

[the average Other]

My take on the three prophecies:

... three fires must you light ... one for life and one for death and one to love

The first fire was Drogo's funeral pyre, that brought life to her dragons. The second was the fire that burned the house of Undying, bringing death to the wizards there. The third fire is yet to come.

... three mounts must you ride ... one to bed and one to dread and one to love

The first mount was Dany's silver, which she rode to Drogo's "bed". The second was Drogo himself - not only did Dany dread him, but Dany's alliance with him caused others to dread. The third is yet to come.

... three treasons will you know ... once for blood and once for gold and once for love ...

Dany's first treason was her betrayal of Viserys (she translated the words that made Drogo kill him and did nothing to save him either), which she did because he threatened her baby, her blood. Her second betrayal was her backstabbing the Masters of Astapor, because she didn't have enough gold. The third is yet to come.

I think the remainig trio - for love - all refer to the same person, action or set of circumstances, too.

Edit: Astapor, not Meereen

[fragment]

I don't think the Golden Company is led by a Bittersteel or any of his offsprings. I think it is more likely to be led by a direct-Targaryen descendant of Aerion Brightflame who fathered children in the free cities...

[Miriel]

Is there any motivation on the part of the inhabitants of the house of the undieing to give truthful or accurate information about the future? Weren't they just trying to suck the life out of Dany anyway?

Well if they were just lying to her and making stuff up then this whole damn thread has been a great big waste o' time ....

[moony the loony]

I don't think the Golden Company is led by a Bittersteel or any of his offsprings. I think it is more likely to be led by a direct-Targaryen descendant of Aerion Brightflame who fathered children in the free cities...

In one of Arianne's chapters it's mentioned that the Golden Company was founded by Bittersteel. Their cry is: "Beneath the gold the bitter steel".

[the average Other]

Another theory popped into my mind as I was reading some of the older threads.

A corpse stood at the prow of a ship, eyes bright in his dead face, grey lips smiling sadly.

In AFFC Maester Marwyn expresses his fear that the Archmaesters of Citadel will send someone to kill Dany's dragons. He also calls them "grey sheep", and the Maesters of the Citadel do wear grey robes, so the colour is connected to them. Could this grey corpse at the prow of a ship (presumably on its way to Dany) be a Maester? And not just any old Maester but Maester Aemon, whose corpse is at the moment in the hands of the Maesters. It would be quite a clever move on the Maesters' part to send a relative who Dany would be inclined to trust. Of course, before they can do anything of the sort they'd have to learn to actually reanimate corpses, but then again, that particular skill has been cropping up in Westeros a lot lately. Other possibility is that they could hire a Faceless Man who will impersonate Maester Aemon. Sad smile=the bittersweet joy of finally meeting a relative, but too late and under worst possible circumstances.

However, I have no idea why vision of Aemon/the assassin sent by the Citadel would appear as a part of the "Bride of Fire" triplet.

[Toe]

"(grey lips smiling) sadly" could be "(greyjoy) sadly" = Victarion. Victarion is melancholy while Euron does not seem to be.

Regarding the treason for love my bet is on Tyrion. He seems to be a closet romantic who could easily fall in love with Dany. He is also vindictive as seen by murdering his father.

[Restless]

I always thought "A corpse stood at the prow of a ship, eyes bright in his dead face, grey lips smiling sadly." is Euron - that She'll "marry" the dreadful undead he is, and will burn him (probably via "Drakaris")

[Drowned Princess]

My take on the three prophecies:

... three fires must you light ... one for life and one for death and one to love

The first fire was Drogo's funeral pyre, that brought life to her dragons. The second was the fire that burned the house of Undying, bringing death to the wizards there. The third fire is yet to come.

I agree with this. I was wondering if the second fire was the House of the Undying. However, my suitably crackpot theory (for discussion purposes) is that the first, second and third parts of each triplet are all related to each other. So...

... three fires must you light ... one for life and one for death and one to love

... three mounts must you ride ... one to bed and one to dread and one to love

... three treasons will you know ... once for blood and once for gold and once for love ...

Fire for life, mount to bed and treason for blood all relate to Drogo, her pregnancy, and the subsequent deaths of her husband and child that allowed the birth of her dragons (blood of two kings and all that).

Next, if fire for death is the House of the Undying, then I have to connect that to mount to dread and treason for gold. I'm pretty sure that Jorah's not one of the treasons, so my nuts ten cents is that Euron is the mount to dread and that he's run into Pyat Pree at some point, since Euron's got his captive warlocks, and they are both fond of the blue stuff after all. So Euron could have struck some sort of a deal to deliver Dany to them. Not that he'll actually do it. Euron's thinking of Euron, so he could just as easily be planning to see what Dany's like and then either side with her or give her over to the warlocks depending on what best suits him, especially if he thinks he can get away with taking the dragons for himself along the way. He may even be relying on Victarion's plan to take Dany for himself, to give him an excuse to get rid of Victarion.

(This is not perfect reasoning on my part by any means. I just want to make suggestions. :))

That means the three loves are all connected, probably Jon, whatevs.

Incidentally: the vision of the stone dragon made me think of when Winterfell is being burned and Summer thinks he sees a winged snake in the sky. At the time I thought that might be a metaphor for Jon's Targ-ness which could be exposed soon, especially given that the exposition of knowledge of his lineage is somehow connected to the crypts, which is pretty much the only bit of Winterfell that's not ruined. So maybe Dany need a metaphorical dragon awoken from stone as well as her literal ones. Since that's in the Slayer of Lies section though i'm not sure what the lies would be on that part, unless it's the lie of Jon being Ned's son (although the winged snake I also thought might be a slightly more fantastic way of seeing Dany's comet and what it represents). But if you really wanted to stretch things almost to breaking point then you could suggest that the vision of Rhaegar also indicates Jon and Dany slaying the "Ned's son" 'lie', especially since she hears Rhaegar utter the woman's name with his dying breath...

:excl: I could make shit like this up forever btw :excl:

[HoratioTheHat]

Hi sorry if this has been said before but why is everyone so sure that the three treasons will be against Dany? Reading the

prophecy could it not be also possible that Dany will

committee

the three treasons?

One thought that comes to mind is that the treason for blood could be tricking her dragons into being chained up for the blood of the child Drogon killed.

[Winter's Lady]

I could make shit like this up forever btw

Oh, continue! New food for thought is always welcome ;)

Hi sorry if this has been said before but why is everyone so sure that the three treasons will be against Dany? Reading the

prophecy could it not be also possible that Dany will

committee

the three treasons?

One thought that comes to mind is that the treason for blood could be tricking her dragons into being chained up for the blood of the child Drogon killed.

First, welcome to the forum! :cheers:

I have seen this argued before, but imo it doesn't really make sense if you look at the words: Three treasons will you know - to me that sounds like she will be on the receiving end of the treasons, it is written in a passive way if my meager English skills don't betray me...

edited because the quote messed up emoticons...

[PennyDreamer]

I agree, I never saw this as a Greyjoy. In my mind, I always thought the 'smiling sadly' on the ship was a dying Maester Aemon. Maester Aemon is sad he doesn't live long enough to meet Dany and her dragons but is happy that the dragons have returned. Just my 2 cents....

I agree on that, but maybe it's not Maester Aemon and it's Jon Connington (because he has bright vlue eyes and his face and lips are grey from the greyscale.).

[Dana Holland]

What if its 3 betrayls danny does and does not have done to here.

[The squid that squints]

I think the first two fires have definitely happened: for life is the fire which gave life to her dragons for death is the house of the undying (giving the undying death is more poetic than all the other people killed by Dany's fires e.g. the one in Astapor) although I think Kraznys could maybe be her treason for love? I did think Kraznys was fire to love because she sets the fire then finds love for her freed slave "children" but the phrasing of a fire TO love seems important, it's such a weird phrasing like the fire is the object of the love. This got me thinking could the fire to love be a "fire" which resurrects someone a la R'hllor? Or is it a sign she will go mad and fall in love with fire like Aerys did? I think that's a brilliant possibility although she's got a long way to go to get there...