Characters encountered in the series that no one hates

[Lady Winter Rose]

Maybe Three-eyed-crow?

[Dreadwolf]

@ Lady Winter Rose

Maybe Three-eyed-crow?

That is interesting but I am not yet sure if 3EC is something we could call a character.

It might turn to be just an idea.

Also – I am Bran*s fan but as it was mentioned above some boarders hate him. There are theories I think speculating that Bran would eventually grab the dark side.

Of course 3EC might play essential role in <saving the world from the Great and unconditional evil > as it was somehow implied in the relevant Bran*s dream.

It is really strange for 3EC was introduced very early in the series and we still have no solid ground to elaborate meaningful theory about its nature and significance.

And welcome on board.

mikeym

I feel sympathy towards Hyle Hunt too, but IMO it still remains w/o any reasonable explanation why did he left Brienne twice to deal with the bad guys all alone.

[AvengingAryaFan]

... Also – I am Bran*s fan but as it was mentioned above some boarders hate him. There are theories I think speculating that Bran would eventually grab the dark side.

... I feel sympathy towards Hyle Hunt too, but IMO it still remains w/o any reasonable explanation why did he left Brienne twice to deal with the bad guys all alone.

On the subject of Bran: we have one second-hand report of A SINGLE boarder that hates Bran. If we're going to allow a single hater to removed people from the "unhated" list, then we may as well just abandon the list entirely, because everybody is hated by somebody. IMHO, Bran should stay on the list until it appears that more than crazy outliers (e.g., more than 1%) of people hate the character. BTW, what is the theory about Bran joining the Dark Side?

Re Hyle Hunt: I had to go back and check (AFFC HB p.555), but it's as I recalled: our maritally ambitious Ser Hunt wasn't obviously shirking when Brienne met the Mummers. Brienne was out giving food to Gendry in the stable of the Crossroads Inn when they arrived, and even Gendry didn't immediately help Brienne with the Mummers when Rorge attacked her. Ser Hunt was inside the Inn with his boots off. To be sure, Willow Heddle managed to get outside to confront the Mummers with a crossbow, so I suppose Hunt might have known of the arrival of the Bloody Mummers - but it's far from certain. Gendry saved Brienne from Biter, but there were five Mummers left, so it's likely that Hunt eventually made himself useful. I can't figure out how the rest of the fracas transpired; all I know for sure is that Hunt had been beaten almost beyond recognition by the time he was hanged. I suppose he might as well have fought the BwB as the Mummers, but I don't know.

When was the earlier time you were referring to, when Hunt could have saved Brienne from the bad guys?

Oh, and @ Mad Monkey: OK already, I repent of Hoster Tully. I withdrew him retroactively (see my earlier post) and hope not to hear his awfulness expounded upon further. I agree he is well and truly hated, probably by quite a few.

Even if we ignore the virtual unknowns, I think the list should include: Maestar Aemon, Podrick Payne, Maestar Cressen, Maestar Luwin, Ser Rodrik Cassel, Beric Dondarrion, Osha, Septon Meribald, Davos, Ser Barristan Selmy, Lord Commander Jeor Mormont, the Blackfish, Meera, Bran, Yoren, Syrio Forel, Margaery Tyrell, and Gendry. Or trim yet more secondary characters off the list - it still leaves a fair list of characters with no major blot against them.

[Spastic Plastic]

Even if we ignore the virtual unknowns, I think the list should include: Maestar Aemon, Podrick Payne, Maestar Cressen, Maestar Luwin, Ser Rodrik Cassel, Beric Dondarrion, Osha, Septon Meribald, Davos, Ser Barristan Selmy, Lord Commander Jeor Mormont, the Blackfish, Meera, Bran, Yoren, Syrio Forel, Margaery Tyrell, and Gendry. Or trim yet more secondary characters off the list - it still leaves a fair list of characters with no major blot against them.

Hyle Hunt hid nearby and watched Brienne take on Shagwell and his two friends all by herself. Hunt was a piece of shit.

Maester Cressen can go off that list as well, because in retrospect he isn't very likeable. Her kind of got what he deserved, trying to assassinate a woman whose crime was being red, and being Cressen's political opponent. Cressen then committed stupicide. I agree with whoever said that seeing Melisandre though Cressen's POV is like seeing Gandalf from the POV of Denethor.

[Spastic Plastic]

double post :(

[Dreadwolf]

On the subject of Bran: we have one second-hand report of A SINGLE boarder that hates Bran.

First hand declaration which is self explanatory and rather persuasive evidence -

. . . I hate Bran. I don't like Ygritte either, but everyone is better than Bran.

Also I suspect following boar-members as not liking Bran very much:

Ser Willis Wode

Ai Lvara

Chalky

To reflect some other of your notes -

Once I posted something intended to be a joke i.e.

Bran must s(l)ave the world so keep him for the last battle please. . .

I promise to make some re-search in the old threads for more detailed hypotheses/ information regarding Bran and the Dark side (if of course I am not misleading my self about that.)

Other than that I would agree that saying there is a theory is overstretching.

Meanwhile I mainly implied on that –

- Bran*s incidental warging into Hodor predispose for speculations that our would be last (anti) hero reborn would eventually usurp his body (thus enabling his child*s dream of knighthood come true)

- From his PoV We were introduced to the idea that some of the Starks did awful and terrifying deeds in their past and the speculation that the Night King was actually a Stark (IIRC that nightmare troubles Bran from time to time - or my memory plays me tricks again). And of course the curse of kinslaying the outstanding and most despicable sin in ASOIAF world is a kind of menace not completely depleted IMO while only vaguely related to the path that given family member would prefer to choose.

- That notorious line of his dream is very interesting:

He looked deep into the heart of winter, and then he cried out, afraid, and the heat of his tears burned his cheeks.

Particularly related to the motive we have encountered in tLotR which is also related to one of my favorite Nietzsche quotes:

He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you.

Re Hyle Hunt

The scene described by you contains rather scanty information on why He did not participate. (My point was that it leaves a wide room for doubt what has happened.) In Briennes previous fight Hyle was late arrival as well – however he arrived quite on time to watch how Podrick throw a stone against one of the Briennes attackers which distracted them and allow her win. (It is from his description of what happened given to Randyl Tarly later on). – Again it simply brought some suspicion while is completely not enough for morally incriminating ser Hyle.

[Lucky Shield]

Kevan Lannister! I mean we're supposed to hate the family and at first he sounds like a sheep but he's actually very clever and does not hesitate to tell Cersei that she's a bad mother and an idiot! :owned: :thumbsup:

[Dreadwolf]

@AvengingAryaFan

While checking the old threads I found another anti Bran declaration:

I dislike Bran Stark.

I think his storylines drag, the dream sequences are long and boring, and he gets minimal action. I recognise that Martin is going somewhere with him, but when he says that writing the kids is more difficult than other characters, I feel like that's reflected in the work. Bran and Rickon are bland and despite having had lots of pages of text, Bran doesn't seem interesting or well fleshed out. . . .

(Yes that is not a genuine hate yet)

On another point regarding hypothesis about Bran and the Dark side I*ve not been too much successful in so far.

The closest thread I*ve found starts with this post

The most horrific act in the whole series for me was when Bran possessed Hodor. Bran had been losing his humanity for a while, with his wolf dreams, then thought nothing of possessing another person. He is now with the others, or at least with one of them. What are everyone's speculations? (If there's another thread, it'd be cool if you could direct me to it).

Bran is the lord of winterfall now, but something tells me that Rickon only exists so that he can take that honour. I'm not sure what the others are, if they are another race, or if people can become them, or whether they are pure evil or not, and what all this mean for Bran.

It was not supported very convincigly in the post that followed thereafter however.

The most impresive rebut rebuttal was that Bran cannot became Other (or in otherwords - the new Dark Lord) for his direwolf is named Summer.

Which I like actually but unfortunately proves nothing It is one and the same if you say He cannot be the King of Winter for the same reason or better still - there is no way Sansa can turn to a bastard girl (even for a while) for she had a direwolf Lady.

ETA: Also see this thread Bran*s Powers - Nightflyer*s post #13

[Spaceman Hobbes]

I think there is a difference between hating a character and hating their chapters. Bran definitely has some annoying chapters, but

I think his storylines drag, the dream sequences are long and boring, and he gets minimal action.

has nothing to do with Bran. We shouldn't take someone off an unhated list simply because their story arc is dragging.

Bran's treatment of Hordor definitely has the potential to become very troubling, however I can't really recall an instance of Bran warging Hordor that wasn't to the benefit of both of them. If Bran begins to abuse his power then by all means strike him from the list, but until then lets not hate the character because he's on a long slowly written journey to nowhere.

I think Hyle Hunt looks like a decent guy because hangs around with a bunch of assholes.

[ArYaStarkOrClever?]

Hodor is evil I tells ya. Eeeeevilllll!! *Grandpa Simpson shouts and points finger at screen*

I think a more pertinent and interesting question would be, does anyone on the board like/sympathize with despicable characters like Ser Gregor, Janos Slynt, Ser Alliser Thorne, etc.?

[Dreadwolf]

I think there is a difference between hating a character and hating their chapters. Bran definitely has some annoying chapters, but ...

...

has nothing to do with Bran. We shouldn't take someone off an unhated list simply because their story arc is dragging.

Yes I grant you that but the curious thing is the statement I quoted is from a thread very similar to that one - <Characters that no one dislikes>

And the author declare he dislike Bran otherwise you are right.

however I can't really recall an instance of Bran warging Hordor that wasn't to the benefit of both of them.

I think I understand what you do mean. Nonetheless appropriating the authority to decide what harmful act would be to the eventual benefit for someone else (especially when that act is a kind of spiritual rape) is essentially the major step under the slippery way to villainy (even when it concerns a child or a man grown at a similar state of mind). I am not saying that Bran is going that way I just want to point out that In My Very Humble Opinion - your justification is potentially morally dangerous.

I think Hyle Hunt looks like a decent guy because hangs around with a bunch of assholes.

That phrasing is awesome :thumbsup:

[Errant Bard]

Maester Cressen, Osha, Ser Barristan Selmy, the Blackfish

For the record, I don't like any of those:

• 
  
• Maester Cressen is an old windbag convinced he only is right, and ready to kill because his lord listens to a new eminence grise instead of him. Sure he thinks he's being noble, but he's just a murderer blowing himself up for his beliefs, trying to drag other people with him. I'm definitely not impressed nor sympathetic, and this is without taking into consideration that Mel's power are real and she says she's out to save the world. Political scheming and bigotry at its finest.
  
• Osha, she's a nobody we just see utter pseudo-wise sentences, after being made prisoner, leaving Mance and his people behind and threatening a child. Her two betrayals so far (of her people and people's ideal, plus Theon's) doesn't make me trust her to do anything than what's in her own agenda.
  
• Selmy, he's a narrow-minded badass paladin and that's all he is. Never could stand paladins. Especially those who criticize a Jaime for not being faithful to a mass-murdering rapist while flip-flopping between Targs and Baratheons depending on how they like the guy in charge. Also: does nothing.
  
• The Blackfish: heh, he's overrated. Leaves his duties when he feels like it. Does whatever he wants. Criticizes Edmure for doing exactly that, when it's actually his own fault. Lies. Wants to kill his whole garrison and his old comrades in arms because he feels spiteful. Sucks as a councillor (everything that went wrong with Robb, only Cat objected) and arguably has a hand in not preventing the Red Wedding disaster. fuck him.
  

[Guest Other-in-Law]

For the record, I don't like any of those:

(snip)

I would give that post a +1 if we could still rates posts.

[Spastic Plastic]

How come we can't rate posts anymore?

[AvengingAryaFan]

For the record, I don't like any of those:

• 
  
• Maester Cressen is an old windbag convinced he only is right, and ready to kill because his lord listens to a new eminence grise instead of him. Sure he thinks he's being noble, but he's just a murderer blowing himself up for his beliefs, trying to drag other people with him. I'm definitely not impressed nor sympathetic, and this is without taking into consideration that Mel's power are real and she says she's out to save the world. Political scheming and bigotry at its finest.
  
• Osha, she's a nobody we just see utter pseudo-wise sentences, after being made prisoner, leaving Mance and his people behind and threatening a child. Her two betrayals so far (of her people and people's ideal, plus Theon's) doesn't make me trust her to do anything than what's in her own agenda.
  
• Selmy, he's a narrow-minded badass paladin and that's all he is. Never could stand paladins. Especially those who criticize a Jaime for not being faithful to a mass-murdering rapist while flip-flopping between Targs and Baratheons depending on how they like the guy in charge. Also: does nothing.
  
• The Blackfish: heh, he's overrated. Leaves his duties when he feels like it. Does whatever he wants. Criticizes Edmure for doing exactly that, when it's actually his own fault. Lies. Wants to kill his whole garrison and his old comrades in arms because he feels spiteful. Sucks as a councillor (everything that went wrong with Robb, only Cat objected) and arguably has a hand in not preventing the Red Wedding disaster. fuck him.
  

The thread regards characters "nobody hates". I'm not challenging your critiques, but do you "hate" these characters?

In asking, I see that it's a tough question: hating none of the characters is as unhelpful as hating most of the characters. Maybe you could rate these characters compared to others in the series - are they among your most detested 20%? The more I think about it, the whole premise of this thread is inadequately defined - definitional help would be appreciated.

Are you officially declaring "hate" for these four, or just a generalized antipathy and lack of sympathy?

As far as that goes, I'd kinda like to defend the characters - except the point of the thread isn't whether characters have no supporters, but whether they have haters.

[Mad Monkey]

I think a more pertinent and interesting question would be, does anyone on the board like/sympathize with despicable characters like Ser Gregor, Janos Slynt, Ser Alliser Thorne, etc.?

I guess Gregor's migraines are pretty unfortunate. He definitely deserves them though, and much worse.

[adamsputnik]

For the record, I don't like any of those:

• 
  
• Maester Cressen is an old windbag convinced he only is right, and ready to kill because his lord listens to a new eminence grise instead of him. Sure he thinks he's being noble, but he's just a murderer blowing himself up for his beliefs, trying to drag other people with him. I'm definitely not impressed nor sympathetic, and this is without taking into consideration that Mel's power are real and she says she's out to save the world. Political scheming and bigotry at its finest.
  
• Osha, she's a nobody we just see utter pseudo-wise sentences, after being made prisoner, leaving Mance and his people behind and threatening a child. Her two betrayals so far (of her people and people's ideal, plus Theon's) doesn't make me trust her to do anything than what's in her own agenda.
  
• Selmy, he's a narrow-minded badass paladin and that's all he is. Never could stand paladins. Especially those who criticize a Jaime for not being faithful to a mass-murdering rapist while flip-flopping between Targs and Baratheons depending on how they like the guy in charge. Also: does nothing.
  
• The Blackfish: heh, he's overrated. Leaves his duties when he feels like it. Does whatever he wants. Criticizes Edmure for doing exactly that, when it's actually his own fault. Lies. Wants to kill his whole garrison and his old comrades in arms because he feels spiteful. Sucks as a councillor (everything that went wrong with Robb, only Cat objected) and arguably has a hand in not preventing the Red Wedding disaster. fuck him.
  

Man, you're a grumpy bugger aren't you? :P

[Alexia]

For the record, I don't like any of those:

Agree, on everyone except Osha. I've liked Osha since the day Bran ran into her in the woods and I like her even more after betraying Theon and becoming little Rickon's guardian. :)

However, I have never understood the popularity that Selmy and the Blackfish have. I don't hate them, exactly (I'll reserve that emotion for Jaime, Theon, Littlefinger, and a few others), but I find them profoundly unsympathetic and hypocritical. Maester Cressen is the male version of Melisandre and hasn't done anything interesting besides providing some insight into Stannis, Selyse, and Melisandre.

I think a more pertinent and interesting question would be, does anyone on the board like/sympathize with despicable characters like Ser Gregor, Janos Slynt, Ser Alliser Thorne, etc.?

I kind of like Ser Alliser. He makes Jon and the Wall more interesting and Jon needs a few trials by non-evil characters. :)

[Mad Monkey]

Didn't Ser Alliser once trek from the Wall to King's Landing and back carrying a rotting hand from a wight? Say what you will about his personality (which is repulsive), but the man takes his job seriously, no matter how frustrating, pointless, and demeaning it is.

[adamsputnik]

Didn't Ser Alliser once trek from the Wall to King's Landing and back carrying a rotting hand from a wight? Say what you will about his personality (which is repulsive), but the man takes his job seriously, no matter how frustrating, pointless, and demeaning it is.

Yep, he might be a bit of a prick, but he certainly doesn't think his position as a man of the Watch is a trifling one. I had thought that Tyrion would have done better by the Watch than he did there, but I suppose the Wall is so far away.