Who are the 10 best swordsmen in the series?

[headtrip_honey]

I really can't believe how many people are glossing over Daemon Blackfyre. By all accounts, he was the Warrior incarnate. Aegon IV gave him the Targaryen family sword because he was such an impressive swordsman, even though he was a bastard. Granted, his rebellion ultimately failed, but that had more to do with Bloodraven's arrows than Daemon's swordsmanship.

I think people aren't glossing them over so much as they're going with main characters in the series.

[oba]

What about Theon, or Rodrik, or Ned for that matter? I'm willing to bet theon is the better swordsman than Jon (although Theon tends to fight with a bow and was an expert at that) as he is 19, while Jon is 14. There is going to be a huge gap in strength and size between a 14 year old and a 19 year old.

I always got the impression that Jory was a good swordsman, both from Ned's thoughts of him and the glimpse we get of him in action against the Lannister men-at-arms.

I know all of this is subjective, but the only thing I ever tried pointing out was that Jon never says or thinks that he (at age 14, no less) was the best sword in Winterfell. He just tells Benjen that he's a better sword than Robb, but that Robb is a better lance. I'd post the same thing if someone wanted to use that comment to argue that 14-year-old Robb was one of the 10 best jousters in Westeros.

[mediocre cheese]

I always got the impression that Jory was a good swordsman, both from Ned's thoughts of him and the glimpse we get of him in action against the Lannister men-at-arms.

I know all of this is subjective, but the only thing I ever tried pointing out was that Jon never says or thinks that he (at age 14, no less) was the best sword in Winterfell. He just tells Benjen that he's a better sword than Robb, but that Robb is a better lance. I'd post the same thing if someone wanted to use that comment to argue that 14-year-old Robb was one of the 10 best jousters in Westeros.

Oh yeah, I forgot about jory, I imagine he was fairly good, probably at a similar level as Ned and Rodrik.

And I totally agree with you, if Jon was the best sword at winterfell, he would've said it. He instead said that he was better than Robb who is also 14. I imagine he's nowhere close to either cassel or his dad for that matter.

[Tagganaro]

1. No it's not. They are children taught how to fight. It's like assuming that if Jon did better on a math test than Robb he'd be the best at math in Winterfell. And following that, implying he'd be the best at math in the world... Children don't make a castle, a castle doesn't represent the world (as Ned proves when being hammered in the yard by Bronze Yohn)
   
2. She defeated Loras Tyrell (and every single one of Renly's knights), she defeated Jaime Lannister, she defeated Rorge, she defeated her father's master at arms. Coincidentally, they were the only one who fought with her with swords. She's never been beaten in a swordfight, unlike someone.
   
3. I can say Jon was not remotely even because A) the opponent staged his loss B) He had a fucking direwolf helping him yet struggled to win c) he had a Valyrian blade on top of the direwolf and still struggled to win. He'd be even if he had no ghost, no longclaw, and no Qorin staging his death, yet still managed a draw somehow. Impossible, evidently: without Longclaw, Ghost, and Qorin trying to die, he'd be dead in 3 seconds flat. I mean, it is ludicrous to claim that there is anything "even" in a 2 vs 1 fight, where the side with two people is magically armed, large and coordinated, yet the lone fighter is only losing because he wants to. If the three untrained guys Jon beats were one castle-trained guy with a magical sword, and one pony-sized wolf, you would be claiming that this guy is the best fighter ever, at this rate.
   
4. A dragon and a sword are the same thing for the subject matter: tools offering an edge in conflict. If you factor a bloody superior tool in a character skill, anyone is vindicated to do the same, with even superior ones. If it's not your taste, imagine I said "Stormbringer" instead of "dragons". As it happens, saying Jon is better because he has Longclaw is ridiculous: if anything, it says that he's weaker than the others, having to rely on magical technology to try to be even with the others who use inferior tech.
   
5. The assertion that Jon is cerebral: fact is, he's not thinking about stuff when he fights, it's shown in all his fights (especially Iron Emmet). He holds his own like any other good fighter would. Bronn strategies? Haha, no. Bronn has actual strategies, Jon has none. Mance is hardly a legendary fighter, also, you pull that out of your ass.
   

Brienne won every swordfight she was into. She's been rated to be the best by the best, who actually know what they are talking about. And please drop the "Jaime was not expecting it": it works for the first two seconds, afterwards he gave it his all and the girl had "an impenetrable iron wall"

1. Jon's had time to grow since then, and presumably training most of the time and filling out more would help Jon to improve past the level he was at in Winterfell.

2. When did Brienne defeat Loras in a swordfight? She unhorsed him by using what some thought was trickery, but I don't remember her beating Loras in a swordfight. Is there another instance where she beat him?

3. As I've already said, Qhorin is better than Jon. I don't dispute that. And I'm not talking about the result of the fight with Qhorin being killed, I'm talking pre-Direwolf kill so I don't know why you keep bringing that up. He caught Jon off-guard at first, and Jon never gained back the advantage until Ghost came in. Jon was still able to deflect all his blows. Qhorin did stage his own death, but there's not much indication he was going easy on Jon at first. He still needs to make it look natural and has to pretend like Jon's betrayal is real so he's not going as easy as you make it out to be.

4. Ok, that's all fine and good, I don't disagree. But Jon happens to have Longclaw, just like Brienne happens to have Oathbringer. If they meet in a fight within natural circumstances (i.e. not the practice yard), Jon is going to have that advantage over anyone, just like Brienne does. That's what I'm talking about, yet it still doesn't really matter much, because I've already said both Mance and Qhorin are better than Jon. So again, why do you keep bringing this up?

5. Every fight involves Jon trying to analyze his opponent and discover weaknesses. He does it in the Mance fight, and he doesn't really have time to do it in the Qhorin fight because it's irrelevant (because he was attacked suddenly and before it could really become much of a fight Ghost intervened). There are certainly similarities between how Jon watches people in the practice yard and thinks out their weaknesses to the way Bronn does the same with Tyrion. And pulling Mance being legendary out of my ass? lol. He's the King Beyond the Wall and is widely known in the North, and was presumably equal to or better than Qhorin who himself is legendary (as Jon remarks on himself), and was able to best several fearsome fighters in order to become King.

As for the Jaime thing, I've already said that he was chained at the time and had been chained up in a dungeon for several months before fighting Brienne. I'd imagine his skills weren't anywhere near as good as he was used to.

What is this fight with Iron Emmet that you are pulling out of your ass? Jon practices with him every day to get better, and says he usually gives just as well as he gets, and the one instance we are shown is when Jon remembers back to Winterfell and gets angry and batters and beats Iron Emmet.

Oh yeah, I forgot about jory, I imagine he was fairly good, probably at a similar level as Ned and Rodrik.

And I totally agree with you, if Jon was the best sword at winterfell, he would've said it. He instead said that he was better than Robb who is also 14. I imagine he's nowhere close to either cassel or his dad for that matter.

Again, Jon has presumably gotten much better since his time at Winterfell by growing out his body and practicing as much as he has. While it may have been a mis-statement to say Jon was the best at Winterfell, a lot has changed since then.

[Talleyrand]

And pulling Mance being legendary out of my ass? lol. He's the King Beyond the Wall and is widely known in the North, and was presumably equal to or better than Qhorin who himself is legendary (as Jon remarks on himself)

How does being widely known equal legendary swordsman? At no point does anyone say that Mance is some sort of legendary swordsman who is at the level or even better than the Halfhand.

[Tagganaro]

How does being widely known equal legendary swordsman? At no point does anyone say that Mance is some sort of legendary swordsman who is at the level or even better than the Halfhand.

You're right. No one ever says he's a legendary swordsman, but it seems most people agree that Mance is a top 10 swordsman in the entire series, and many peoples's lists have him close to the top 5, because obviously he's a real badass if he can unite all the Wildlings behind him.

So, No, no one ever says Mance is legendary with a sword, but it's clear he's a total badass who's a great fighter/swordsman. Qhorin Halfhand is "legendary" with a sword however, and I think it's a relatively safe assumption that Mance is somewhere around Qhorin's level based on the contextual evidence we've been given (largely, the similarities between the fights between Jon and Mance/Qhorin, Mance's ability to defeat several opponents in order to gain their loyalty, in fact, Mance's very status as King beyond the Wall even though he's a lowly turned crow makes me believe Mance is at a similar level to Qhorin).

[Ser Tomas Yellowsnow]

How about Daaerio Naharis, Strong Belwas & Drogo? And ohh forgot Arya Stark.

[Mr.Blonde]

Well going by authorial intent,I think we're supposed to consider Drogo as a very strong and ferocious warrior,like Sandor.But we haven't actually 'seen' him do anything 'on screen',so to speak.

If we're going strictly by what happened in the books,Oberyn,Bronn and Syrio have had the best showings,hands down...

[mediocre cheese]

If we're going strictly by what happened in the books,Oberyn,Bronn and Syrio have had the best showings,hands down...

We saw one fight with Oberyn, and he ended up with his skull crushed. By contrast Sandor fights his brother as well, but lives to tell the tale afterwards, and he defeats berric and his magic sword, as well as tytos frey, the mob in kings landing and ned's men. I don't think those three can be considered the best showing.

And Oberyn can't be counted as a swordsman can he? He fights with a spear.

[Artos Stark]

1. Arthur Dayne (Even Jaime says that Dayne could kill the Loras and the entire Kingsguard with his left hand)

2. Jaime Lannister

3. Garlan Tyrell

4. Sandor

5. Barristan

6. Bronn (Tyrion says he might even be close to Jaime)

7. Syrio Ferel

8. Half Hand

9. Loras

10. Lyn Corbray

[Sel(l)mysword]

1. Jaime Lannister (pre-arakh)

2. Sandor Clegane

3. Syrio Forel

4. Mance Rayder

5. Garlan Tyrell

6. Brienne

7. Barristan Selmy

8. Khal Drogo

9. Bronn

10. Jorah Mormont

[Aengus Millen]

Top 4

Arthur

Jaime

Syrio

Brienne

[Asturias]

Greatest Swordsmen alive in series, in their prime.

Swordsmen-

Barristan Selmy- According to Martin, it would be a toss up between Selmy and Dayne without Dawn.

Jaime Lannister

Syrio Forel- Whooped like 7 armored guys ass with a wooden sword. Gotta assume the first sword is SUPER skilled.

Sandor Clegane- When not completely drunk.

Qhorin Halfhand

Bronn

Brienne- I think in a few years could be in top 3 of this list. She just hasn't has many oppurtunities in real battle.

Garlan Tyrell

Randyll Tarly- Jon claims a swordsman must be as good as his sword, and Randyll's had his valyrian his whole life. That and hes called the greatest soldier in Westeros.

Beric Dondarrion- Went toe to toe for a while with one of the best- the hound.

honorable mentions-

Mance Rayder- handily beat Jon without breaking a sweat.

Loras Tyrell

Also, Barristan claims one of his squires in Meereen is the best natural swordsman he'd seen since Jaime Lannister.

Best Warrior alive in series in prime-

1.Barristan Selmy

2.Khal Drogo- Best fighter in history of the whole Dothraki people.

3.Robert Baratheon

4.Jaime Lannister

5.Areo Hotah- The way he calmly beheaded Arys makes me think is rediculously skilled, we just havn't seen him challenged. Reminds me of a samurai.

6.Sandor Clegane

7.Oberyn Martell

8.Gregor Clegane- Seems kinda far down the list, but i really think everybody above him would beat him.

9. Andrik the Unsmiling- best fighter on a chain of islands with small population compared to mainland.

10. Victarion Greyjoy

Honorable mentions-

Bronze Yohn Royce- everyone who talks about him claims how much of a dynamo he is all around at tourneys.

Qhorin Halfhand

Best fighters all time-

1. Arthur Dayne

2 .Daemon Blackfyre- According to Eustace Osgrey, he was better than the dragonknight and the "warrior himself" with his sword, Blackfyre, on the redgrass field.

3. Barristan Selmy

4. Gerold Hightower

5. Gwayne Corbray- Had an hour long duel with the second greatest fighter of all time before being defeated.

6. Aemon the Dragonknight.

7. Khal Drogo

8. Jaime Lannister

9. Robert baratheon- took the iron throne by force.

10. Rhaegar Targaryen

honorable mentions-

Bloodraven- Legolas like skill with bow

Bittersteel- Huge duel with Bloodraven

Maekor and Baelor breakspear- the hammer and the anvil

Serwyn of the mirrorshield- Slayed a dragon single handed.

The Smiling Knight

[The King in the South]

Greatest Swordsmen alive in series, in their prime.

Swordsmen-

Barristan Selmy- According to Martin, it would be a toss up between Selmy and Dayne without Dawn.

Jaime Lannister

Syrio Forel- Whooped like 7 armored guys ass with a wooden sword. Gotta assume the first sword is SUPER skilled.

Sandor Clegane- When not completely drunk.

Qhorin Halfhand

Bronn

Brienne- I think in a few years could be in top 3 of this list. She just hasn't has many oppurtunities in real battle.

Garlan Tyrell

Randyll Tarly- Jon claims a swordsman must be as good as his sword, and Randyll's had his valyrian his whole life. That and hes called the greatest soldier in Westeros.

Beric Dondarrion- Went toe to toe for a while with one of the best- the hound.

honorable mentions-

Mance Rayder- handily beat Jon without breaking a sweat.

Loras Tyrell

Also, Barristan claims one of his squires in Meereen is the best natural swordsman he'd seen since Jaime Lannister.

Best Warrior alive in series in prime-

1.Barristan Selmy

2.Khal Drogo- Best fighter in history of the whole Dothraki people.

3.Robert Baratheon

4.Jaime Lannister

5.Areo Hotah- The way he calmly beheaded Arys makes me think is rediculously skilled, we just havn't seen him challenged. Reminds me of a samurai.

6.Sandor Clegane

7.Oberyn Martell

8.Gregor Clegane- Seems kinda far down the list, but i really think everybody above him would beat him.

9. Andrik the Unsmiling- best fighter on a chain of islands with small population compared to mainland.

10. Victarion Greyjoy

Honorable mentions-

Bronze Yohn Royce- everyone who talks about him claims how much of a dynamo he is all around at tourneys.

Qhorin Halfhand

Best fighters all time-

1. Arthur Dayne

2 .Daemon Blackfyre- According to Eustace Osgrey, he was better than the dragonknight and the "warrior himself" with his sword, Blackfyre, on the redgrass field.

3. Barristan Selmy

4. Gerold Hightower

5. Gwayne Corbray- Had an hour long duel with the second greatest fighter of all time before being defeated.

6. Aemon the Dragonknight.

7. Khal Drogo

8. Jaime Lannister

9. Robert baratheon- took the iron throne by force.

10. Rhaegar Targaryen

honorable mentions-

Bloodraven- Legolas like skill with bow

Bittersteel- Huge duel with Bloodraven

Maekor and Baelor breakspear- the hammer and the anvil

Serwyn of the mirrorshield- Slayed a dragon single handed.

The Smiling Knight

Obviously everyone is going to have slight bias, but I think this list is pretty much spot on.

[Zaydan]

...

...

...

Going by the title of the thread, Robert Baratheon, Areo Hotah, Oberyn Martell, and Victarion Greyjoy are not swordsmen.

Btw, what’s the difference between “warrior” and “fighter”? Are they not, in the end, one and the same thing?

[Asturias]

Going by the title of the thread, Robert Baratheon, Areo Hotah, Oberyn Martell, and Victarion Greyjoy are not swordsmen.

Btw, what’s the difference between “warrior” and “fighter”? Are they not, in the end, one and the same thing?

yeah there is no difference, i used warrior fighter to differentiate from swordsman

[Asturias]

Going by the title of the thread, Robert Baratheon, Areo Hotah, Oberyn Martell, and Victarion Greyjoy are not swordsmen.

Btw, what’s the difference between “warrior” and “fighter”? Are they not, in the end, one and the same thing?

also robert victarion and areo hotah were in the warrior/ fighter list. I made an only swordsman list at the top.

[Ser-Arthur-Dayne]

Ok, I'll try to takle this:

1. Yours truly, Ser Arthur Dayne

2. Jamie Lannister

3. Gerold Hightower

4. Barristian Slemy

5. Sandor Clegane

6. Robert Baratheon

7. Rhaegar Targaryen

8. Oberyn Martell

9. Gregor Clegane

10. Qhorin Halfhand

[dima]

I think ten worst swordsman is more fun:

1. Sam

2. Tyrion

3. Sansa

4. Osmund Kettleblack

5. Magister Illyrio

6. Any Frey

7. Wyman Manderly

8. A Dead Rhaegar

9. Mace Tyrell

10. Varys

[The King in the South]

I think ten worst swordsman is more fun:

1. Sam

2. Tyrion

3. Sansa

4. Osmund Kettleblack

5. Magister Illyrio

6. Any Frey

7. Wyman Manderly

8. A Dead Rhaegar

9. Mace Tyrell

10. Varys

Err Osmund Kettleblack is no Arthur Dayne but a lot of people make remarks about his good fighting skills. And just because you don't like Freys doesn't mean their bad fighters.