Who are the 10 best swordsmen in the series?

[Alexia]

Brienne was nearly killed by Rorge in single combat... no offense to Brienne fans but that seems pretty weak to me, nearly getting killed by a deranged no name outlaw. She has skills that we witnessed in her fight with Jaime but in a fight to the death she proved a little lacking... at least in that fight.

I have to add that, while I don't dispute for a moment that Brienne is a good fighter (though I don't think she's one of the best), Jaime had been imprisoned in Riverrun for almost a year and lost a lot of muscle and fitness. So Brienne's fight with him is not really a terribly good gauge of her ability.

[Myiagros]

I'm not sure how he would match up against others on the list but I remember that Thoros was once a great swordsman, correct me if I'm wrong. He was the first through the breach during Robert's Rebellion at Pyke and I believe others said he was a good fighter.

[Fireball07]

Arthur Dayne can't count...because he's dead before the series, otherwise he has to be top.

But I can't see how you can have Mandon Moore, Halfhand, Jorah or the Greatjon, who is never highly acclaimed by anyone, ahead of Barristan Selmy.

[Dimnara]

Yep, Jaimie is manacled and weak from imprisonment when he fights Brienne. He wants to kill Brienne, Brienne wants to keep him off and she's quite good at that, Jaimie thinks it's like Brienne would stand in an iron cage, he just can't reach her. Brienne on the other hand is astonished from the skill that Jaimie shows half starved and in manacles.

--> So both are thinking of each other "Wow. A good fighter." But Jaimie with both hands free and well nourished what clearly kill Brienne. So all I said was that Jamie is better than Brienne, but that Brienne is not to be underestimated.

[Shemy]

Brienne may be good but she went up against Jaime when Jaime was chained, and couldn't fight properly.

Jaime was playing to kill/break free, Brienne was defending/trying to force jaime to yield/not willing to hurt Jaime.

Can't really claim Brienne only drew equal to a weak Jaime with chains or just managed to beat him, since Brienne was restricted in a different way. It's not an easy thing to keep a good fighter at bay without really going for it yourself, even a good fighter thats not on top form.

Brienne was nearly killed by Rorge in single combat... no offense to Brienne fans but that seems pretty weak to me, nearly getting killed by a deranged no name outlaw. She has skills that we witnessed in her fight with Jaime but in a fight to the death she proved a little lacking... at least in that fight.

Incorrect, Brienne Killed Rorge quite easy, her only downfall in that fight was slipping in mud while it was raining and she had no shield at the time and received a grazed shoulder for it. It was when Rorge was dying that Biter flew at her while she was unawares and landed on top of her and near killed her, that's not really something you can control and I don't think that should be used as a way to discredit Briennes ability as a swords(wo)man.

I couldn't say for sure, but my list would be;

1. Jaime Lannister (If we take into account what he said about beating both Cleganes)

2. The Hound.

3. Barristan Selmy

The others I think are subjective. Those 4 should definetely be in the top 3 at least anyway.

[feardeathbywater]

1. Syrio Forel/Syrio Forel's ghost

2. Garlan Tyrell

3. Unsullied 7395 Taupe Toad, "the one that's really good with a sword"

4. Jaime Lannister's hand

5. Ermesand Hayford (really, and it's gonna surprise everyone)

6. Bran Stark (unknown, and yet another damned waste)

7. Unsullied 2551 Chartreuse Tapeworm "the one that's almost as good as Taupe Toad"

8. Barristan Selmy

9. That guy Bob from Lorath who we haven't met yet

10. Maybe the Kettleblacks' dad? or Brienne.

[StrongBelwas]

I'll offer my list of the DEADLIEST characters rather than the best SWORDSMAN. This world contains various fighting styles and to focus on swordplay as a superior style is being (I think) shortsighted.

1. Jaqen H'ghar (or the faceless' newest "no-one" persona)

2. Syrio Forel

3. Ser Jaime Lannister (two handed)

4. Khal Drogo

5. Ser Gregor Clegane

6. Prince Oberyn Martell

7. Bronn

8. Grey Worm

9. Ser Loras Tyrell

10. Strong Belwas

I created this list using Gregor as a baseline and asking myself "Could this character kill Gregor" The Red Viper came very close, but failed at the end (I don't count the poison killing Gregor later, Oberyn lost in a straight up fight). Bronn falls below because he straight up admitted to Tyrion that he could give it a good effort and attempt to tire the Mountain out, but that he gave his own victory a less than even money chance. I had no doubt that Jaqen would get him, as would Syrio. Jaime would find a way too. Drogo I see as Gregor's equal in size and might, and since his braid had never been cut, he got the edge.

A case could also be made for the Kindly Man in the house of Black and White I suppose. But since we know little to nothing about the nature of the Faceless Masters, I'll leave him out.

People who almost made the list:

Brienne the Beauty

Qhorin Halfhand

Jon Snow

Ser Barristan Selmy

Eddard Stark

Euron Crow's Eye

Jhogo, Aggo, & Rakharo

People from earlier times who could have made the list

Youthful Robert Baratheon

Rhaegar Targaryen

Balon Greyjoy

Ser Arthur Dayne

Ser Gerold Hightower

Maelys the Monstrous, last of the Blackfyre Pretenders

[Dimnara]

When you speak from the deadliest characters you should add Meilsandre. ;) Magic can be pretty deadly.

[kdtrublood]

Jon Snow has to be close to the top of the list: he beat Qhorin fighting at full-force. The un-maimed Jaime, certainly, though I like his personality much more post-amputation. Doran Martell was a fierce fighter, but he fought with a poisoned spear, which I think should knock him out for best swordsman. Sandor Clegane. The Young Wolf & The Knight of Flowers I would put up there, and definitely Ser Barristan. I think Ned must've been a super bad-ass to have walked away from the Tower of Joy, though we don't see him fight a lot in the books. Syrio Forel was a flippin' ninja, yo. What about the Sword Of the Morning? Sure Arthur Dayne deserves mention here.....I wish we could have known Rhaegar......

[Hnim]

I'll offer my list of the DEADLIEST characters rather than the best SWORDSMAN. This world contains various fighting styles and to focus on swordplay as a superior style is being (I think) shortsighted.

1. Jaqen H'ghar (or the faceless' newest "no-one" persona)

2. Syrio Forel

3. Ser Jaime Lannister (two handed)

4. Khal Drogo

5. Ser Gregor Clegane

6. Prince Oberyn Martell

7. Bronn

8. Grey Worm

9. Ser Loras Tyrell

10. Strong Belwas

I created this list using Gregor as a baseline and asking myself "Could this character kill Gregor" The Red Viper came very close, but failed at the end (I don't count the poison killing Gregor later, Oberyn lost in a straight up fight). Bronn falls below because he straight up admitted to Tyrion that he could give it a good effort and attempt to tire the Mountain out, but that he gave his own victory a less than even money chance. I had no doubt that Jaqen would get him, as would Syrio. Jaime would find a way too. Drogo I see as Gregor's equal in size and might, and since his braid had never been cut, he got the edge.

A case could also be made for the Kindly Man in the house of Black and White I suppose. But since we know little to nothing about the nature of the Faceless Masters, I'll leave him out.

People who almost made the list:

Brienne the Beauty

Qhorin Halfhand

Jon Snow

Ser Barristan Selmy

Eddard Stark

Euron Crow's Eye

Jhogo, Aggo, & Rakharo

People from earlier times who could have made the list

Youthful Robert Baratheon

Rhaegar Targaryen

Balon Greyjoy

Ser Arthur Dayne

Ser Gerold Hightower

Maelys the Monstrous, last of the Blackfyre Pretenders

I feel that this list is rather lacking. Where is The Hound? He proved to be quite a match for Gregor. Where's Ser Garlan Tyrell? He's a better fighter than Loras. I have very, very, serious doubts that any Dothraki could beat any Westerosi knight . The capabilities of the Dothraki rely on Horse Archery. Plate armor is essentially sword-proof, or at the very least EXTREMELY effective against swords. Westerosi armor is also late medieval, and as a result it is arrow-proof as well (The strength of the longbow in the Hundred Years' War, such as at Agincourt was more important because it could kill the footmen (who wore inferior armor) in droves and then horses of the knights, and though knights could get up after being unhorsed, the muddy conditions of the day was what saved the day for the English). and and where does your Grey Worm argument come from? I'm sure he's a great swordsman but we have no proof of his abilities as he's never depicted fighting. Balon Greyjoy's prowess is never shown, though Victarion Greyjoy's is.

[StrongBelwas]

I feel that this list is rather lacking. Where is The Hound? He proved to be quite a match for Gregor. Where's Ser Garlan Tyrell? He's a better fighter than Loras. I have very, very, serious doubts that any Dothraki could beat any Westerosi knight . The capabilities of the Dothraki rely on Horse Archery. Plate armor is essentially sword-proof, or at the very least EXTREMELY effective against swords. Westerosi armor is also late medieval, and as a result it is arrow-proof as well (The strength of the longbow in the Hundred Years' War, such as at Agincourt was more important because it could kill the footmen (who wore inferior armor) in droves and then horses of the knights, and though knights could get up after being unhorsed, the muddy conditions of the day was what saved the day for the English). and and where does your Grey Worm argument come from? I'm sure he's a great swordsman but we have no proof of his abilities as he's never depicted fighting. Balon Greyjoy's prowess is never shown, though Victarion Greyjoy's is.

I can answer some of those questions.

The hound and Garlan: I forgot about them. Garlan should replace Loras. Sandor should be inserted below Bronn

which knocks Belwas off (alas, this is sad, I admit to being biased). This was an oversight.

Dothraki in general: In this listing it's going to be impossible to accurately compare one culture's nature of fighting to another. In mean, think about it: Why is Theon not on this list? He could just shoot his way to victory from distance right? But in an overall test of skill, Theon gets whupped by everyone on this list. I'm looking at raw skill. In this case, Drogo and Gregor one-on-one, gregor with his blade, Drogo with an Arakh. Drogo is just as powerful as Gregor and slightly quicker. Even without armor I give a slight advantage to Drogo,

(though it's likely they will both end up dead when Drogo fails to properly wash his wounds.) Note also that the other Dothraki did not even make the top 10 list at all.

Balon Greyjoy: In a world of Ironborn Kings/Lords, where a weaker elder is easily killed by an ambitious heir, Balon Greyjoy commands both Euron Crows Eye and Victarion without question. I listed him in the section of "In the past", he did not make the list nor the "almost made the list" list. In his youth, balon was a badass. It's been hinted at a few times.

Grey Worm: Unsullied get overlooked in this thread. Why? Where else exists a warrior who is utterly without fear and immune to pain? Both are huge advantages. The only person I can think of that does not fear death is Jaime, as he stated in his 1st chapter in SoS, but he feels pain easily enough. Grey Worm was chosen when the 4600 Unsullied were asked to chose the best among them for representation. I think he deserves a nod even if no-one else agrees. I further note that in all the previous lists, the faceless man was never mentioned and yet he makes the greatest case for the number one position. It makes me wonder what the kindly man in the house of black-and-white can do.

To the other comment about the deadliness of Melisandre. I really don't know how to rate magic use in this world. So the characters of Melisandre, Mirri Maz Duur, Quaithe of the Shadow, Thoros of Myr, the Warlocks of Qarth, and any single one of the Others are going to be considered unknown quantities and therefore unlistable.

[StrongBelwas]

Jon Snow has to be close to the top of the list: he beat Qhorin fighting at full-force.

I take issue with Jon being better than the halfhand. I just re-read the fight (CoK page 953) and Jon was losing before Ghost jumped in causing Qhorin to leave an opening. Additionally Jon was fighting with a Valarian steel blade (advantage Jon) and they had just completed a conversation where it seemed clear that Qhorin was going to let Jon beat him to create the case needed to convince the wildlings Jon was a deserter.

Page 954 cite: "he knew what they would ask of me"

So when I consider

1. Qhorin's pre-knowledge

2. Longclaw being of valarian steel

3. Ghosts involvement

I can't make a case that Jon is better. Now if he lives another 20 years as a Lord Comander with many rangings, he might well be worthy of the top 10 list.

[StrongBelwas]

How about (for fun) a list of the weakest, least able-bodied characters in a fight?

Here's a list i slapped together in 5 minutes

1. Lollys Stokeworth

2. Hodor

3. Old Nan

4. Maester Ameon

5. Samwell Tarly

6. Patchface

7. Hot Pie

8. Bran (without summer)

9. Rickon (without Shaggydog)

10. Marillion

A list of the aged, crippled, craven, and lackwitted. And in Marillion's case, a tendancy to freeze up when violence occurs.

Wow. That was fun. Anybody got any better ideas?

[Marina]

H

ow about (for fun) a list of the weakest, least able-bodied characters in a fight?

Here's a list i slapped together in 5 minutes

1. Lollys Stokeworth

2. Hodor

3. Old Nan

4. Maester Ameon

5. Samwell Tarly

6. Patchface

7. Hot Pie

8. Bran (without summer)

9. Rickon (without Shaggydog)

10. Marillion

A list of the aged, crippled, craven, and lackwitted. And in Marillion's case, a tendancy to freeze up when violence occurs.

Wow. That was fun. Anybody got any better ideas?

I don't know, I think Hodor could pack quite a punch if he wanted to. And say someone started beating up on Bran - Hodor might be able to figure out enough to hit back.

Still: anyone agree Robert Arryn deserves the number one spot on the list?

[Recentiy03]

Why is Darkstar considered the most dangerous man in Dorne? He can't crack the top 10 list and he failed at killing a child...what am I missing?

[Dimnara]

Dangerous has not necessary to mean that he is a good fighter. For example it could also mean that he is of one of Dorne's mightiest houses and batshit crazy ("I'm so very very evil. I'm the sword of the night. Muahah."). That's usually a very bad and dangerous combination.

[Marina]

I'm not sure Brienne deserves to be on the list - in Feast, Ser Hyle says he believes her about not killing Renly, because she wasn't up to killing most of the people in his Kingsguard. He names one or two specifically that were better than her, but they weren't knights who made this list. So I'm reluctantly going to count her off.

And Jon himself admits he's not great, so we can't count him either.

In no particular order:

Arthur Dayne - he's consistently rated the best swordsman in recent history. Even if he is dead.

Jaime Lannister (2 hands)

Syrio Forrell

Sandor Clegane

Barristan the Bold

The Halfhand

Gregor Clegane, by virtue of brute strength

Garlan Tyrell

Loras Tyrell

Strong Belwas

[Dreadwolf]

IMO Brienne not only deserves to be in the list but also would find place in the top 4 premium edition.

BTW Ser Hyle*s opinion (if so impotrtantat all) has changed dramatically once he saw her fighting.

[Blackfish Blues]

I can't make a top ten because we see few of these guys actually fighting. For many of them, it's hearsay or one-time fights. But how about the Blackfish? Not because he's my fave ASOIAF guy, but because:

1) he's survived to his age despite a rather warlike life

2) Jaime seems convinced that Brynden would kill him if they resorted to single combat in front of Riverrun. True, Jaime hasn't ajdusted to his missing hand yet, but on the other hand (pardon the pun) Brynden cannot have the reflexes and stamina of a young guy. Does this mean that for Jaime (who admires him, so might be prejudiced) Brynden would be, in ideal conditions, about his equal?

[Errant Bard]

Does this mean that for Jaime (who admires him, so might be prejudiced) Brynden would be, in ideal conditions, about his equal?

No, it just means that Jaime is aware that Ilyn Paine is "killing" him twenty times per night, and as such that anyone with training would dispatch him.

Feel free to argue Ilyn would be two-handed Jaime's equal.