Who are the 10 best swordsmen in the series?

[kingkiller]

I don't think Howland would have been using poisoned weapons. Not when riding besides Ned Stark. Ned would never have permitted it, IMO, and to be honest, I don't think crannogmen would fight that way against a respected foe. Using poison against ironborn reavers who've invaded your home isn't quite the same thing as turning it against famed, honorable knights of the Kingsguard who're doing their duty...

Hey Ran,

While I agree 100% Ned would never allow anyone to use poisoned weapons against the Kingsguard, I don't think Howland shares his views. The crannogmen are survivors and Howland would need something to even the playing field while fighting VS the KG. Besides, in war, there are no rules. I do agree though that Howland didn't use poison because of Ned. He probably stayed on the outside of the battle and used a net or his frog spear to trip Arthur Dayne, allowing he and Ned to kill him. Meera had to learn from someone right?

Also about your other comment about Jorah not being a good swordsman and almost losing to unarmored Qotho: A win is a win, baby! Also, we know that Jorah has it in him to be an elite fighter when he has the right motivation from his one great tournament win. Tourneys aren't the same as fights to the death, but the talent is in there somewhere. If someone were threatening Dany I'm not sure R'Hllor himself could keep that man safe.

[NerdStark]

We always forgot Robb Stark.\

Robb Stark is a good swordman and also a great tactician.

[thee young wolf]

I Think Young Robert Baratheon good be on of the most deadliy men in westoros

[Toiltoil]

This is more a top 10 fighters i guess, but many of them prefers swords..

1. Jaime lannister

2. The hound

3. Prince Oberyn Martell

4. The mountain

5. Garlan Tyrell

6. Barristan Selmy

7. Brienne of Tarth

8. Syrio Forel

9. Robb Stark

10. Victorian Greyjoy

[The Marquis de Leech]

I'm excluding Syrio on the simple grounds that his brand of fighting is an altogether different one from standard Westerosi warfare, and as such you can't really judge him.

Anyway, as of the start of the series (and sticking to swords):

1. Garlan Tyrell

2. Sandor Clegane

3. Jaime Lannister

4. Gregor Clegane

5. Strong Belwas

6. Barristan Selmy

7. Loras Tyrell

8. Mance Rayder

9. Qhorin Halfhand

10. Bronn

And the ten worst, sticking to adult males only:

1. Hodor

2. Maester Aemon

3. Walder Frey

4. Doran Martell

5. Willas Tyrell

6. Patchface

7. Grand Maester Pycelle

8. Maester Cressen

9. Wynton Stout

10. Sam Tarly

[A Maidens Fantasy]

Though there is no doubt in my mind that Ser Garlan should be in the top ten, and he's certainly one of the best, the only battle he has to his credit is Blackwater, and though he performed spectacularly I'd say the more experienced ones who are still young should be able to out do him.

Agree, he seems to be very good since he trains against 3 at a time. But he wore Renlys armor at the battle, so how much of his prowess was his own ability, and how much was his opponents being scared sh*tless beacuse they thought they were being attacked by a ghost?

[Frey Pie]

Well who are the best fighters from each region?

North-Robbs the only one of great mention in the books.Ned and Reed are unknowns.Dayne could have been injured when they faced off.We just dont know enough to justify putting them above others.Roose and Ramsey are ruthless fighters i imagine and Greatjon is huge and strong.

Iron Islands-Andrik supposedly the best.Victarion is fearsome from his POVS.Euron-unprove.Asha-very good but not great.Someone has a Valyrian blade but i cant remember who so theyd be dangerous.

Westlands-Strongboar,Jaime,Cleganes,Marbrand.Who else?

Riverlands-Mallister,Blackfish.

Vale-Egan was awful.Lyn Corbray beat a famous knight of the kingsguard but he was injured badly.Bronze Yohn and his ons are the only of note i think

Crownlands and Kingsguard-Bronn,Moore-eyes and all that,Loras,Jaime again,Swann,Oakheart.Kettleblacks arent up too much.Syrio.

Brotherhood-Beric and thoros are of note.

Reach-Loras,Garlan,Renlys rainbow lads,Brienne,Tarly.A Hightower and Redwyne or two.Brienne.

Stormlands-Robert in his hayday,Stannis and Renly are unproven as swordmen.We know Stannis is a good commander but what about one on one?Who else?

Dorne-obviously Artur in his breathing days.Darkstar.Oberyn,Sand Snakes,a Yronwood maybe?

Wall-Qhorin,Jon(getting better everyday),Iron Emmet

Beyond the Wall-Mance,Rattleshirt,Weeper,Tormund.

Accross the sea-Barristan,Jorah,Grey Worm,Belwas.Wouldnt rate the pit fighters.Drogo and bloodriders

Therfore for alive swordsmen-

1.Jaime

2.Sandor

3.Garlan

4.Thoros

5.Gregor

6.Belwas

7.Mance

8.Brienne

9.Jon

10.Blackfish

That could easily change if we knew more about the other swordsmen like Darkstar.Barristan is getting too old and i feel hed get worn out by the younger calmer fighters and overpowered by those such as the Cleganes.Mallister could be epic.Grey Worm must be good but we havnt seen him in action.Drogo-if everyone fought naked.Loras could be up there but i think hes a better horseman.Syrios style is way different to Westerosi but for technique hes the winner.We havnt seen Thoros first hand but hes got his rep for a reason.

If Dayne,Robb and Qhorin were alive theyd be in there.Rhaegar aswel.

For deadliest fighters Victarion definately comes into it along with probably Andrik(supposed to be the best iron born),Oberyn.Jaqen and the faceless men also.Robert if he was alive

:fencing:

[dragginstoned]

Okay, since people cant stick to the rules, I'll remind you. Swordsmen alive at the begining. So no Arthur Dayne, no Areo Hoteh, no "in his prime" this guy or that guy.

So best with a sword:

1) Syrio --- Demonstably the best

2) Jamie --- Reputedly the best

3) Belwas --- Pit fighter extrodinare

4) The lighting lord --- Beat Sandor

5) Bronn --- Told Tyrion to hire anybody who could beat him

6) Sandor ---- You know he is better than his brother

7) the halfhand --- Damn Good

8) the mountain --- Bigger is better.

9) Loras --- Killed half the rainbow guard in a fit of rage

10) Barristan --- Would have killed the entire kingsguard. and they knew it

[dragginstoned]

A side note about Howland Reed, Ned, Poison etc:

I dont think "Ned's honor would have forbiden Howland to use poison".

Poison is just how the crannogmen fight. Ned might be honorable, the Starks might be good, we might all be generally inclined to love the people of the north, but thats not how it works.

The North is full of MONSTERS. They are *our* monsters and we like them. But they are monsters. and the south knows it. Thats how they are viewed and rightly so. What scares you more on a sheild, a fossway apple or a chained giant?

Consider the traditions of the north: Ned will take your head personally. When he brings his crew it includes :

A family of people that have been skinning their enemies and wearing them into battle for thousands of years

A family of huge brawling people named Umber. The only one with an education is called "whoresbane". Along with cousin Greatjon and Cousin Crowsfood.

A family of women who mate with bears

A family of people with a floating castle that Hunt Gators with pitchforks

A guy who will bake you in a pie, serve you to your relatives and not think twice about it

its a place where people used to sacrifice their enemies to trees, old men lie down in the snow to die, children are sometimes eaten in winter, the men have huge beards and are constantly at war with Viking raiders.

Despite all this, the little guy cant use poison? Puleeze! Thats not "honorable"? Wrong! Thats war in the north. Kidnap Ned's sister and you die pooping blood. Thats what war is, see you on the causeway southron.

[Été]

1 Jaime Lannister

2 Sandor Clegane

3 Garlan Tyrell

4 Mance Rayder

5 Brienne of Tarth

Honourable Mentions, with reservations

Barristan Selmy would probably be tops 30 years ago.

Gregor Clegane isn't actually a good swordsman, just a really effing strong one.

Outside his crimes of passion, Loras Tyrell hasn't really distinguished himself as a swordsman.

We're not told objectively how good Jon Snow and Robb Stark are/were, but they both seem to be regarded as better than average.

[sunworshipper]

I think Thoros belongs in the top 10. I think he regularly won melees [including the Hand's Tourney melee], was the first person over the wall in Pyke, and when he meets the Hound in ASOS, I believe he says something about defeating him three times.

I thought Thoros admitted that he wasn't all that good. He always went for melees where he could use his trick burning sword. That's how he beat Sandor three times.

About Brienne, I got the impression that she wasn't all that skilled in swordfights but better in melees where she could use her strength more effectively. Heck, she probably has Dunk's technique of turning a swordfight into a wrasslin' match. Her M.O. wth swords is to play defense until her male opponent wears himself out with his furious effort to beat the woman quickly. It worked with Jaime.

Best swordsman? Gregor Clegane. Technique, schmechnique, no one want to face him one on one with swords.

[Nihilist]

Like I said, I don't think Howland Reed used poison, and I certainly see a clear distinction between the ironborn invaders and the Kingsguard at the tower of joy. Moreover, I don't think Howland would have carried a pot of poison to dip a spear into if things went so badly that, 7 against 3, only he and Ned were still alive. Nor do I think he really had the time. It might have been something he would have wanted to do ... but, no.

And like I said, Ned Stark sure the hell would not have been for it.

Howland used a net to tangle up Dayne, or maybe as some speculate he's a skinchanger and confused Dayne by getting into his head and trying to take over, or perhaps he just fought him directly, but I'm quite certain he never used poisons.

ETA: It should also be noted that the crannogmen's poison as described by Victarion is fairly slow acting -- takes hours to kill.

Ned Stark wouldn't allow Howland Reed to use a weapon he is known for because he is too honorable? And yet, he is fighting them 7 vs. 3. I mean really?

I find it hard to believe that Arthur Dayne was taken down by anything short of trickery/poisoning/warging. It seems clear that not only does Arthur Dayne's death bother Ned, but also the manner in which he died. Which shows, to me, poisoning being a real possibility.

[Mr.Blonde]

I think people are overstating things a bit when it comes to Arthur Dayne.I know he was one of the finest knights,but there's alot more to knighthood than fighting.

Most of the info we have on him comes from Jaime,and I think the "he could beat you with his left hand while taking a piss with his right" type of comments speak more of Jaime being enamoured with Arthur Dayne rather than actual skill.He is the one than knighted Jaime if I'm not mistaken,and was one of the reasons Jaime joined the Kingsguard,so it's obvious he sees him as this larger-than-life figure,an idealized knight,and so did everyone else.

The more someone's legend gets perpetuated,the more they seem as this superhuman uneatable force,but like Barristan says "A warrior without peer… those are fine words, Your Grace, but words win no battles".

The simple fact of the matter is,those who are reputed as the best swordsmen are already close to the peak of human ability,and there simply can't be one who completely blows the others out of the water,like we are told Arthur Dayne did.That's just wishfull thinking.

That being said,I believe the closest we've seen to such a figure is Syrio.The others are elite swordsmen/fighters,but Syrios is a master.He completely trounced five fighters in the blink of an eye,with a wooden sword to boot.Anything else we've seen pales in comparrison.He's supremely fast,skilled,and judging by the importance he placed on "the true seeing" in his speech,he likely has a brilliant tactical and analytical mind.

His character is basically the trope of the eccentric old master who is such a fierce fighter/wizard/whatever that he has to be severely gimped by the plot in order to be killed and thus pave to way for his apprentice to reach maturity.

[Riffraff]

I think Thoros of Myr is really getting the short end of the stick here. As said before he is renown from winning many melees in tournaments beating many of the swordsman listed in peoples top 5(Sandor, Gregor, Jamie). By the way melees are described in the book, it sounds like a 1 on 1 battle rather than the team skirmishes from history. Robert Baratheon also became a fan of Thoros from his participation in these tournaments so he must have been quite impressive.

[Été]

I think Thoros of Myr is really getting the short end of the stick here. As said before he is renown from winning many melees in tournaments beating many of the swordsman listed in peoples top 5(Sandor, Gregor, Jamie). By the way melees are described in the book, it sounds like a 1 on 1 battle rather than the team skirmishes from history. Robert Baratheon also became a fan of Thoros from his participation in these tournaments so he must have been quite impressive.

Clearly Thoros is able to hold his own, but Hot Pie could have beaten the Hound with a flaming sword. The guy is renowned as one of the top fighters in the Seven Kingdoms, but he's so afraid of fire that he only just beat UnBeric, and that was with his life on the line.

I'm not saying Thoros is rubbish - just that beating Sandor Clegane with a burning sword isn't really a fair example. We don't know that he's ever beaten Jaime, or Gregor, or anyone else. Robert would have loved him for putting on a good show, it doesn't mean he was amazingly skilful.

[robertlives]

My list.

1. The Kingslayer

2. Barristan the Bold

3. The Knight of Flowers

4. Garlan Tyrell

5. The Hound

6. Quorin Halfhand

7. Brienne of Tarth

8. Bronn

9. Victarion Greyjoy

10. Jon Snow

Honorable mention to The Sword in The Morning. He wasnt alive at the start of the Song but he is the best swordsman who ever lived.

[sunworshipper]

By the way melees are described in the book, it sounds like a 1 on 1 battle rather than the team skirmishes from history.

I believe that historical mêlées could be two-team fights or free-for-alls. The mêlée that Brienne won by beating Loras definitely sounded like a free-for-all with only temporary ad-hoc alliances between fighters. It certainly was not one-on-one. Two knights ganged up on Brienne and then Loras attacked her as she was finishing off the last one of the two.

[sheriffkiller]

I've only read the first 2.5 books but I think it would be wise to consider more hand to hand combat (no horse) than just sowrds for this because than Drogo would have a shot at the top spot.

Also, although Selmy was alive at the start of the book, he was past his prime clearly (same with Ned and Robert) so you can say those 3 have a shot at the top spot if you count them as they were in their prime.

At least in the series it looked like Ned was beating Jaime in their battle, I think Jaime is amazing but in my mind someone like the Hound would destroy him. (Haven't read the 4th and 5th books but if they haven't had a sword fight yet, no one can truly side besides GRRM)

As far as "the Mountain is mostly a great warrior just because of his size", so what? That's like saying Shaq isn't a great basketball player or Bronn isn't a good sword if not for his quickness and in-combat wits.

[ICE CROW]

Well i guess my order would be this, im adding robert in even though his weapon of choice was an Axe he got more than kills i wager to deserve to be on this list.

Ser Barristan

Ned Stark

Robert Baratheon

Khal Drogo

Syrio Farerll

Jamie Lannister

Bronn

Sandor 'The Hound' Clegane

Qhorin Halfhand

Mance Rayder

Thats my 10, if anyone questions why Ned and Robert are their they fought and survived 2 wars while always being right in the middle of the battle not commanding from afar.

[Été]

At least in the series it looked like Ned was beating Jaime in their battle, I think Jaime is amazing but in my mind someone like the Hound would destroy him. (Haven't read the 4th and 5th books but if they haven't had a sword fight yet, no one can truly side besides GRRM)

Word of God has it that Ned was an "average swordsman", not really in the same league as Jaime Lannister. Jaime's generally made out to be the best knight in the Seven Kingdoms around the start of ASoIaF. One can argue subjectivity, but Jaime thinks about it in one of his POVs in ASoS:

"Amongst the living, Greatjon Umber was stronger, Strongboar of Crakehall most likely, both Cleganes for a certainty. The Mountain’s strength was like nothing human. It did not matter. With speed and skill, Jaime could beat them all."

As far as "the Mountain is mostly a great warrior just because of his size", so what? That's like saying Shaq isn't a great basketball player or Bronn isn't a good sword if not for his quickness and in-combat wits.

I suppose the point with the Mountain is that it his freakish size and strength make it nearly impossible to compare him to anyone else. No one would dispute that he's a deadly fighter, but he's not necessarily a good swordsman. He just tenderises his opponents. This thread seems to be about general skill, not brute strength alone.