Rally to restore sanity and/or fear

[Martin Silenus]

Isn't the whole thing more to consider criticism of the media and its pundits, rather than the political parties themselves?

Obviously the lovely press failed to edumacate on this point: The park and its memorials have a $400 million backlog of deferred maintenance. Stewart wants to raise money for charity for the Trust For the National Mall. Colbert is donating to Donors Choose, which raises money for school supplies.

I thought, at the end of the funfun, that was what it was all about.

How many posts in? 41? O_o

[Maithanet]

Maithanet, I thought it went without saying that the Metro would be unprepared? They're probably still riding high after finishing the six month repair project on the two small escalators at Bethesda to think about other things...

Yeah well I admit, I wasn't terribly surprised about Metro being unprepared. However, the fact that what seemed like 50% of the crowd could not hear a word of what was being said? Not impressive.

Tempra, I would agree there was plenty of vitriol aimed at fox news and Glen Back, but given that this was sort of an anti-polarization rally, I think that is a fair target. And it isn't like the montages weren't hitting back against Olbermann/liberal news sources either. Didn't see any anti-Cheney stuff, but I'm sure it was there.

[WhiteHaven]

So Jon Stewart and Stephen Colbert's rally is happening is Washington DC right now. I know we have some board members going. My question is, is this rally going to make any kind of statement that will matter? Or is just another gimmick that will funnel people back into the Democrat/Republican lines?

No. This Demonstration will change everything.

Okay serious: It's just another gimmick that will funnel people back into the Mafio...ehhh I mean Democrat/Repblican lines.

Can't have people not voting for the same...eh these two parties now, can we?

[Tempra]

Yeah well I admit, I wasn't terribly surprised about Metro being unprepared. However, the fact that what seemed like 50% of the crowd could not hear a word of what was being said? Not impressive.

Tempra, I would agree there was plenty of vitriol aimed at fox news and Glen Back, but given that this was sort of an anti-polarization rally, I think that is a fair target. And it isn't like the montages weren't hitting back against Olbermann/liberal news sources either. Didn't see any anti-Cheney stuff, but I'm sure it was there.

Yes, in fairness, I saw quite a few signs lambasting Olbermann, Beck, and some other male anchor that I am unfamiliar with (not hannity/o'reilly). I do agree that that the individuals are fair targets.

[Former Lord of Winterfell]

Were they at least infrared, ultraviolet?

Or do you mean there were colors involved?

Really, wtf do mean by this?

Gee...is it really that hard? Folks here and elsewhere have harped on how the crowds at tea parties are (allegedly) overwhelmingly white, with a wink-wink that somehow shows they are racists. This crowd had even fewer minorities. I'd intended just to make that point directly, but given the hypocrisy, I thought it would be more fun to make the point using the phrase from "Black Dynamite". Funny movie.

[Mack Kilimaro]

I saw that sign as well. There were 3-4 other "No one is hitler but hitler" type signs. As far as I could tell, a lot of the partisan hacks were on side streets. There were quite a few anti fox news protestors, I saw some anti-cheney protestors. I didn't see any anti-bush protestors. Lots of pro-choice protestors.

I got dragged to the rally and was pleasantly surprised by the composition of the people who turned up and the tone of the event. I mostly agree with Jon Stewart's final speech.

This is a fair take on the event from someone I might not have expected to approve, so cheers to you, Tempra. :)

I agree that there were some partisan hacks on side streets. I had to walk about three blocks from the Metro to the mall and there were definitely a lot of random groups trying to give away literature, stickers, or sell t-shirts (some of the people selling t-shirts were just typical street vendors though).

It's probably safe to say that the crowd was generally left-leaning but I think people bought into the message of trying to restore some respect among partisans of different stripes. I wish I could have heard and seen most of it, considering I was actually there and still couldn't!

[Former Lord of Winterfell]

As for what it was about? It was basically that political divisions and cable news are hurting the country. That every day in all contexts, Americans can and do work together with people they disagree with. So why should politics be different?

FLOW, Blauer, I think the sentiment you are expressing was TOTALLY different from the mood on the ground. I saw hundreds of posters and virtually all were either an appeal to reason "Bush = Not Hitler. Obama = Not Hitler. Hitler = Hitler", or absolute nonsense "Everybody Poops!" A few were obviously political (for drug legalization and gay marriage typically). I didn't see a single sign that was vilifying Republicans. Not one. I'm sure there were some there, since there were hundreds of thousands of people. But that wasn't what this rally was about, and frankly it was pretty obvious.

Well, gee, where was this perspective when it was tea party rallies? Folks here were perfectly fine with finding one sign at one rally and imputing those motives to all or most trea partiers everywhere. Despite not having actually talked to the vast majority of people in attendance and assessing the overall "mood on the ground". I wish I could find the article, but there was a recent one pointing out how media coverage of a tea party rally focused disproportionately on signs that were the overwhelming minority.

So you´re blaming Stewart/Colbert because msnbc did exactly what the rally was against and focused on stuff like that?

I think that's laughable given how Stewart himself has gone after the tea parties. Essentially, he wants the freedom to demonize and caricature the other side, because when he does it it's really just comedy, but plays the responsible journalist card when it comes to attacks on his side. What a crock of shit. The left has shown lots of righteous indignation about any signs comparing Obama to Hitler, but if there are signs doing the exact same thing -- to a jewish guy no less -- it's "not representative of the sentiment on the ground." Hey, was the sign saying "I masturbate to Christine O'Donnell" also not "representative of the sentiment on the ground"?

You can't have it both ways. Either trying to smear everyone with signs carried by a few is legitimate, or its not.

[ljkeane]

The left has shown lots of righteous indignation about any signs comparing Obama to Hitler, but if there are signs doing the exact same thing -- to a jewish guy no less -- it's "not representative of the sentiment on the ground."

I'm pretty sure it was intended to be a joke about signs depicting people as Hitler.

[drawkcabi]

Sorry no dice.

The teabaggers are a bunch of racist assholes and the ones organizing their rallies are either the same or pandering to them for money/votes that it makes no difference.

Those who go to the teabagger rallies say they are there to protest smaller government, less taxes, blah, blah, blah but it's a thinly veiled facade to organize thier fear of a black man in the white house.

The rally to restore sanity was a stand against people who think like this and if most of those there were left leaning well that's because the majority of crazies this election year just happen to be from the the extreme right.

[Mack Kilimaro]

I'm pretty sure it was intended to be a joke about signs depicting people as Hitler.

Keeping in mind, of course, that a suggested sign/t-shirt slogan was "I disagree with you but I'm pretty sure you're not Hitler."

[S John]

Those who go to the teabagger rallies say they are there to protest smaller government, less taxes, blah, blah, blah but it's a thinly veiled facade to organize thier fear of a black man in the white house.

God knows I'm no teabagger, but I disagree with this statement. I think it's a cop out (not aiming this at you in particular Drawk, I hear this line a lot). One of my old roommates in DC used to say this all the time. Granted, I'm sure there are some in the tea party movement, such as it is, that that statement describes perfectly. But I think it's unfair to accuse everyone in the entire group of being racist. Smaller government and less taxes are broadly appealing. I don't see why we shouldn't take the majority at their word but instead assume that they're all racists. Just seems like quite a leap to me.

Also, iirc, the original 'movement' really was about lashing out against big government, Republicans included. Then Palin, Beck, etc got involved and now its just more partisan bullshit. Actually kind of impressive how they were able to come in and act like the whole thing was their idea... and then make that idea so muddled and partisan that 'tea-partiers' are now once again nothing more than a branch of mainstream republicans. :lol:

Oh Politics, how I hate you.

[drawkcabi]

You're right of course S John I just had a rant building inside me lately and it finally burst out.

There's a feeling in the air, energy on the right and apathy on the left. I've felt this before, just before the Bush/Gore election.

I was one of the apathetic ones too then and voted for neither. I didn't want bush to win, but if he did I figured so what? It's the will of the people, let's see what he'll do. Not much difference between him and Gore anyway.

Then we go through 8 years and I've heard so many comments of "If I had only known..." about Bush.

I know what I'm saying doesn't have much to do with the rally but the apathy in this tread just got to me.

I think the Democrats leave a lot to be desired as a party and I'm disgusted with many of them as a lot are, but to suggest that they are just the same as the Repub politicians this election cycle is a lot like saying your chances for survival are just as good driving a car with brakes that kind of work as they are with a car that has no brakes at all.

[Shryke]

God knows I'm no teabagger, but I disagree with this statement. I think it's a cop out (not aiming this at you in particular Drawk, I hear this line a lot). One of my old roommates in DC used to say this all the time. Granted, I'm sure there are some in the tea party movement, such as it is, that that statement describes perfectly. But I think it's unfair to accuse everyone in the entire group of being racist. Smaller government and less taxes are broadly appealing. I don't see why we shouldn't take the majority at their word but instead assume that they're all racists. Just seems like quite a leap to me.

Also, iirc, the original 'movement' really was about lashing out against big government, Republicans included. Then Palin, Beck, etc got involved and now its just more partisan bullshit. Actually kind of impressive how they were able to come in and act like the whole thing was their idea... and then make that idea so muddled and partisan that 'tea-partiers' are now once again nothing more than a branch of mainstream republicans. :lol:

Oh Politics, how I hate you.

It's silly to act like these people "came in" and took over.

The Tea Party has been an astroturf movement from virtually day 1.

[Former Lord of Winterfell]

It's probably safe to say that the crowd was generally left-leaning but I think people bought into the message of trying to restore some respect among partisans of different stripes.

Does that include respect towards, say, Sarah Palin, Christine O'Donnell, John Boehner, Sharon Angle, etc.? Isn't the comedy of Stewart and Colbert largely based on showing a lack of respect for politicians? For some reason, I suspect a great many of the attendees haven't been high on showing respect to those people. Like with the "I masturbate to Christine O'Donnell" sign. In any case, showing "respect" to Palin, O'Donnell, Angle, etc., certainly hasn't been the general rule in this forum, has it?

Keeping in mind, of course, that a suggested sign/t-shirt slogan was "I disagree with you but I'm pretty sure you're not Hitler."

Oh, I'm quite sure there are people there who felt that way. Just as I'm quite sure there are folks who attended tea parties who felt that way as well. But it seems that the rule with tea parties is "ignore the masses and focus on the wackos", whereas here its "ignore the wackos and focus on the masses."

I'm pretty sure it was intended to be a joke about signs depicting people as Hitler.

I'm curious as to how you're "pretty sure" of the intentions of the folks who prepared that sign. The sign says what is says, without any disclaimers or explanations. Or is it unfathomable that there are people on the left who actually think that way? Maybe you should try trolling some of the stuff at Daily Kos or Democratic Underground. Or try a Google search. Or maybe just read this one article, that collected a bunch of the pre-Obama comparisons of Bush to Hitler in various lefty marches:

http://www.zombietime.com/zomblog/?p=612

[TerraPrime]

Well, gee, where was this perspective when it was tea party rallies? Folks here were perfectly fine with finding one sign at one rally and imputing those motives to all or most trea partiers everywhere.

Except, of course, that the Tea Party movement has had these signs repeatedly, in different contexts, and that it has a history tied to the anti-Obama racist signs at the GOP conventions in 2008.

But let's forget that history, because that'd really screw up the dichotomy you want to set up:

You can't have it both ways. Either trying to smear everyone with signs carried by a few is legitimate, or its not.

[ljkeane]

I'm curious as to how you're "pretty sure" of the intentions of the folks who prepared that sign. The sign says what is says, without any disclaimers or explanations. Or is it unfathomable that there are people on the left who actually think that way?

To be perfectly honest I don't really care either way but given the amount of time the Daily Show dedicates to ridiculing people who make such comparisons and the whole 'restore fear' theme it seems rather likely. If you're trying to find something to get indignant about I'd try to find something more unambiguous.

[Mack Kilimaro]

Does that include respect towards, say, Sarah Palin, Christine O'Donnell, John Boehner, Sharon Angle, etc.? Do you think that's what Stewart has been doing on his show? For some reason, I suspect a great many of the attendees haven't been high on showing respect to those people. Like with the "I masturbate to Christine O'Donnell" sign. In any case, showing "respect" to Palin, O'Donnell, Angle, etc., certainly hasn't been the general rule in this forum, has it?

I don't think the rally was in any way crying for respect for Palin, O'Donnell, or any of the above. What I do think it was saying is, maybe let's not paint people who happen to support those candidates with broad brushes. I mean, public figures are fair game for ridicule in the vein that Jon Stewart takes aim at them. It's not like he spares Democrats from that either.

Yesterday's rally was directed at Stewart's faithful in part, a reminder that one can be a Republican without being a racist and/or fascist, but I think it was also directed at people who aren't in the Stewart wheelhouse, that one can be a Democrat without being a communist or a terrorist, and that liberals love America too.

This is not a new message for Stewart. Let's recall that appearance on Crossfire where he basically excoriated the whole format and I've always felt sounded the death knell for the show. Unfortunately, in that time, the spirit that drove Crossfire hasn't receded from cable news, but now it's basically turned into MSNBC on the left vs. Fox News on the right.

[TerraPrime]

Incidentally, the narrative that Olberman is the counterpoint to Beck and/or O'Reiley is rather inane. Olberman fills that role only to the extent that he is the furthest left who has a national TV presence, not because his show content and his commentary are qualitatively equivalent to those two.

[Former Lord of Winterfell]

Except, of course, that the Tea Party movement has had these signs repeatedly, in different contexts, and that it has a history tied to the anti-Obama racist signs at the GOP conventions in 2008.

Really? I remember asking that question months ago, and the number of actual signs like that was pretty small. People here freely demonized tea partiers in general for signs that appeared at completely different tea parties.

Now here, we have one lefty -- oh, I mean moderate - rally, and found these various signs all at that one rally. If broad-brushing people for signs that were present at rallies those folks never even attended is okay, then it certainly seems fair to broad-brush folks for signs that were present at the rally they actually attended.

Why not compare it to the most recent large conservative rally -- the Beck rally? Care to post some photos of all the offensive signs/slogans found there, and we'll compare the levels of prevalence to the signs at this rally? And maybe check out the link I posted above to all the Bush/Hitler comparisons while your congratulating yourself on the left's allegedly greater tolerance of dissenting views.

But let's forget that history, because that'd really screw up the dichotomy you want to set up:

No, that's not history. That's just spin. As I said, there have been studies done on the focus the media gave to certain signs at some tea party rallies that was completely disproportionate to the actual prevalence of those signs at those rallies. And most folks here just lapped it up because it fit nicely with their preconceived intolerance towards anyone who had the temerity to oppose the Administration's agenda.

This is really quite amusing. Even while lauding the call to show more respect to dissenting views, you guys keep justifying why it's perfectly okay to show a lack of respect to dissenting views. Which all boils down to it being okay to say horrible things about people on the right, but uncivil and rude for the favor to be returned.

Or am I reading you wrong? Are you arguing that the left really has been showing respect to Palin, O'Donnell, Angle, Bush, etc.?

[Former Lord of Winterfell]

To be perfectly honest I don't really care either way but given the amount of time the Daily Show dedicates to ridiculing people who make such comparisons and the whole 'restore fear' theme it seems rather likely. If you're trying to find something to get indignant about I'd try to find something more unambiguous.

Well, you obviously care or you wouldn't have posted. Did you bother checking the Bush/Hitler link? Do you really think the anti-bush people marching back then wouldn't have attended this kind of rally? You can look at some of the groups that glommed on to this rally and see direct overlap.

And why in the world would you assume that the stated motives of the people on the stage (and I say "stated" because I have doubts as to the real motives given that these are comedians) were reflected by everyone in attendance? That certainly hasn't been the standard applied to tea parties, where folks focused gleefully on an isolated sign while failing to point to anything improper said by whomever was at the podium at that particular rally.