WrathOfTinyKittens Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 I think Cnauir is in a slightly different category, since I can easily see him getting a new arc working for the Consult, and we don't see him die 'on screen': he merely considers it. You don't have to posit any weird conspiracies or supernatural effects or anything to have Cnauir be alive.He'd be pretty old. He was, I believe, 46 as of the appearance of Kellhus in his lands (IIRC, he was either 14 or 16 when Moe showed up, and that was 30-31 years prior, so there's the math), so he'd be in his mid sixties. Too old to be much use in a fight, and he seemed to have gone too crazy to be much use as a general. Not sure what arc could happen with him.UNLESS he's with the wild Fanim in the deserts. I could sorta see that, but I doubt it would have too much relevance.To preempt Nerdanel, here's a crackpot theory: The Fanim attacking down the Sempis are reported to have Cishaurim with them. Cnaiur has become the real Moe's student in the Psukhe and is one of the Cishaurim. BAM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aimlessgun Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 He'd be pretty old. He was, I believe, 46 as of the appearance of Kellhus in his lands (IIRC, he was either 14 or 16 when Moe showed up, and that was 30-31 years prior, so there's the math), so he'd be in his mid sixties. Too old to be much use in a fight, and he seemed to have gone too crazy to be much use as a general. Not sure what arc could happen with him.Man I didn't even think of that. Definitely makes it seem less likely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nerdanel Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 The Consult was able to make the Nonmen immortal, so it isn't out of the question that they couldn't make Cnaiür similarly immortal. And if that is lost technology by now, there are the chanv option and the "do whatever Shaeönanra did" option. And finally, Cnaiür could be plenty of use to the Consult as a general even if he's too old to fight well. Based on its past performance, the Consult is in a dire need of a clever general, and Cnaiür knows how Kellhus thinks. Meanwhile Kellhus doesn't have any idea that he's fighting against Cnaiür and is expecting typical Consult brute force strategies.It occurs to me that despite how Cnaiür's tactical mind was emphasized early on, that foreshadowing may not have seen its full payoff thus far. If Cnaiür was the one leading the Scylvendi, he could have defeated Conphas. It could be interesting to see him take on an overconfident Kellhus, even if we learn it was Cnaiür only later on. It has been said before, but: Kellhus as Napoleon attacking Russia with Golgotterath as Moscow?On the subject of war strategy, I'm thinking that the key area to control for the Second Apocalypse is Mengedda, the topos currently associated with the No-God. I think it is different from the last time because this time the No-God died in Mengedda instead of the pre-Inchoroi Golgotterath area. Kellhus's main army is far away, so the control the area will be decided between whatever the empire has left, the Consult invasion from the North which I think is about to happen even if the people of the Three Seas don't know about it yet, and Fanayal's Fanim, which I think includes Moënghus. The outcome of a situation like that is very hard to predict, especially as the goals of various sides are uncertain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madness Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 Made me laugh so hard. Thanks for the compliments all round. I quote or paraphrase Bakker probably once a day, so I showed my girlfriend Razor's last post and she almost pissed her pants. Too funny. Rhamadanth, that's huge compliments if you think I'm as logical as Nerdanel is inventive (or crazy lol).I swear I'm going to post some speculations later but I wondered if any of you have ever checked out this site. It's pretty funny and it gives some really strange lateral perspectives on things.TV Tropes - Second Apocalypse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cantabile Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 Tear Jerker: Many examples. Out of fantasy series, this is probably the most depressing one, second only to A Song Of Ice And Fire.Hmm, hard for me to decide which series I find more depressing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madness Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 When I was re-reading it again The Woobie stuck out for me. Too fitting for Achamian. Always my favorite character.EDIT: Cnaiur will always hold a special place in my heart. I don't care that he's messed up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curethan Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 Be careful of TV tropes. I cracked a monitor from having too many tabs open :PThomas Covenant gets the most depressing award from me. Not sure why, but finishing 'memory, sorrow and thorn' left me depressed for a couple of weeks too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aimlessgun Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 I found PoN to be more numbing than depressing. Sort of an overload. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalbear Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 Yeah, I wouldn't call PoN depressing; I'd have to actually like any of the people for me to feel bad about their plight. I guess I'll be depressed if the Consult end up losing. GRRM does the neat thing of making his villains fairly sympathetic and understandable. Bakker does the neat thing of making all of his protagonists - some of whom should be fairly likeable - into complete dicks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curethan Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 Xinemus was allright... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shryke Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 I found PoN to be more numbing than depressing. Sort of an overload.I'd more go with melancholy.It's heroic in a dark, sort of fatalistic way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vethnar Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 :idea: You are Nerdanel's alt. The left brain to his right brain. You have chosen this place to be your battleground. Your logic versus his intuition. Winner takes all and a book of stamps.I'm pretty sure Nerdanel is a girl. Male forum members rarely choose female nicknames for themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhadamanth Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 I'm pretty sure Nerdanel is a girl. Male forum members rarely choose female nicknames for themselves.Somebody informed me of that. I didn't recognize Nerdanel as a female nickname. Sorry, Nerdanel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalbear Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 Oh Scott Bakker no!The bulk of the controversy my books have caused, I think, has to do with my refusal to pander to the readers’ modern moral sensibilities, particularly with regards to gender.I'm sad that he still doesn't understand the arguments about that. Madness, if you go into that coffee shop and see him (presumably in a mirror), please smack him about the head and tell him to reread what was said before, as he's submitting to a confirmation bias that's really beneath him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gladius Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 Oh Scott Bakker no!I'm sad that he still doesn't understand the arguments about that. It's bullshit either way. I'm disappointed that he even cares. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aimlessgun Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 Oh Scott Bakker no!I'm sad that he still doesn't understand the arguments about that. Madness, if you go into that coffee shop and see him (presumably in a mirror), please smack him about the head and tell him to reread what was said before, as he's submitting to a confirmation bias that's really beneath him.I'm interested in his dislike of 'anachronistic' modern moral sensibilities in fantasy. Is he somehow imputing that second world fantasy can't diverge from an earthlike timeline? Or is he complaining that none of the fantasies with modern moralities do any legwork to justify the existence of those beliefs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shryke Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 I'm interested in his dislike of 'anachronistic' modern moral sensibilities in fantasy. Is he somehow imputing that second world fantasy can't diverge from an earthlike timeline? Or is he complaining that none of the fantasies with modern moralities do any legwork to justify the existence of those beliefs?The second more or less.Or, to be more specific, why does a blatantly sexist society seen to have nothing but completely non-sexist people in it? Or what divergence made this medieval society so much less sexist then it's real world counter-parts?We had a whole thread awhile back about blatant moral anachronism in alot of fantasy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curethan Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 Pfft. Just paint in the damn lines. Don't ask me to think, tell me what to think. As long as it perpetuates the veiws of my peers.caution: intentionally ironic sentiment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aimlessgun Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 The second more or less.Or, to be more specific, why does a blatantly sexist society seen to have nothing but completely non-sexist people in it? Or what divergence made this medieval society so much less sexist then it's real world counter-parts?Makes sense. We had a whole thread awhile back about blatant moral anachronism in alot of fantasy.Found it, thanks for pointing me there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jurble Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 Somebody informed me of that. I didn't recognize Nerdanel as a female nickname. Sorry, Nerdanel.Hmm, I'm like 98% certain Nerdanel is a dude. Though, a feminine inability to reason logically would explain shklee's (third-person gender neutral from Futurama) more unusual theories. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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