The Wise Man's Fear III [Spoilers and Speculation within]

[Slick Mongoose]

The Singers are the Singers. They are the leaders of the Tahl in the Tahlenwald, nothing else. jeez.

But there is obviosuly something more to them that being the leaders of the Tahl, else Haliax wouldn't be worried about them. They do magic by singing. Felurian does magic by singing.

[Slick Mongoose]

I'm working off the assumption that anything currently belonging in the Faen realm is Fae. If she were human, she wouldn't refer to Kvothe as manling and tell him manling stories. She acts like she belongs in the Faen realm.

In Chapter 16 Kvothe finds a book that has three chapters on faeries, one completely devoted to Felurian.

All of those things could come from living in the Fae for all of her very long life.

Although the immortality/extreme longevity is a problem.

[ShanRawr]

Felurian's magic is aimed at men. I don't think the Chandrian are human anymore. Felurian refuses to talk about the seven/Chandrian. I don't get the impression from her reaction that she wants to hunt them down or even cross paths with them on accident.

[jurble]

But there is obviosuly something more to them that being the leaders of the Tahl, else Haliax wouldn't be worried about them. They do magic by singing. Felurian does magic by singing.

Gosh, they use the same method of magic~, but Sithe are Fae, Amyr are Human, and Singers are Tahl. Each group protects their people. Haliax protects the Chandrian from getting pwnt by either group when they deal with either sets of people.

[ShanRawr]

Gosh, they use the same method of magic~, but Sithe are Fae, Amyr are Human, and Singers are Tahl. Each group protects their people. Haliax protects the Chandrian from getting pwnt by either group when they deal with either sets of people.

Felurian states the Amyr aren't human.

[unJon]

@Jurble. It's "singers" not "Singers." Jeez. :P

[Slick Mongoose]

Gosh, they use the same method of magic~, but Sithe are Fae, Amyr are Human, and Singers are Tahl. Each group protects their people. Haliax protects the Chandrian from getting pwnt by either group when they deal with either sets of people.

Who protects you from the Amyr? The singers? The Sithe?

The Sithe and Amyr are capitalised. They're organisations. The singers are not being referred to as an organisation here.

And in addition to Felurian's magic being of the singing kind, her name is itself a song, which is interesting.

[jurble]

Felurian states the Amyr aren't human.

The first Amyr were not human, they were Ruach. The current Amyr are.

[TheValyrianDragonlord]

Aren't the first Amyr still around? I doubt the Chandrian have anything to fear from the human Amyr.

[ShanRawr]

If the Cthaeh can be believed, it sounds like the Amyr are behind the Lackless door.

[unJon]

Quadratix, I agree with your Cthaeh criticism, it's one of the few things I didn't like. It's one of the better points of the story that the "hero" has monumentally screwed the world. While he's still in control of his actions the Cthaeh, in picking out this future, makes it less his fault. Which is a shame.

I disagree. First, I think it's likely that the Cthaeh's omniscience is exaggerated. One of the main themes of the novels is how stories grow in the telling. No doubt the Ctheah is bad stuff and worthy of the Sithe killing those it comes into contact with, but I doubt it has real omniscience.

But even if it does, I am still not that bothered. Omniscience is not omnipotence. The thing is stuck in a tree. It doesn't have many options. Sure it can pick from some set of futures based on what it says, but that set of futures is probably very limited because all it can do is talk to you. Posters here said they didn't understand why the Sithe bothered to kill those that spoke to the Cthaeh, as if it were too late once the Cthaeh spoke to them. That's absurd. The Sithe kill the people precisely to keep the Cthaeh's power limited. They effectively limit the futures that the Cthaeh could choose from.

More than that, we all heard what the Cthaeh said to Kvothe. Sure it was a good and sneaky info dump, but it that's all it is. It did not change who Kvothe was in any way. Sure it tipped him off that he should ask the Adem lady about the Chandrian, but whatever. The Cthaeh doesn't make Kvothe do all the bad things he'll end up doing. Kvothe's natural impatience and curiosity will do that. The Cthaeh just gave Kvothe information. Maybe some of it was bad info, but that's it.

[Quadratix]

I disagree. First, I think it's likely that the Cthaeh's omniscience is exaggerated. One of the main themes of the novels is how stories grow in the telling. No doubt the Ctheah is bad stuff and worthy of the Sithe killing those it comes into contact with, but I doubt it has real omniscience...

Even if its a limited omniscience, how can such a creature even exist in the world he's built up? Despite my personal dislike of Oracles, that is the main internal inconsistency I can't grasp. Does Naming eventually lead to Listening which leads to Knowing-all-potential-paths-of-all-potential-things?

If anything, Bast needed a larger infodump to explain his tree dwelling enemy.

[SkiesOfAzel]

The Ctaeth, which btw seems to me like an obvious reference to the serpent in paradise, doesn't explicitly say the Amyr are behind the closed door, it implies it.

Felurian doesn't have human eyes, she was probably a Ruah at some point in the distant past before Fae, but never a human.

Although, i've theorized that the Tahl leaders are the singers mentioned by Haliax, there is no conclusive evidence to support this, he might also be referring to the Angels (they also sing) or another group entirely. He was probably referring to Manet though (he not only can divide by zero, he can also divide himself to infinite male sopranos) ...

As for Bast denying that the boy isn't his because it has blond hair, a) hair color is by no means an indication and B) Bast tends to lie, allot.

[Dragons Dancing]

Yeah, my thoughts exactly. This trilogy is so good when it focusses on the Chandrian and naming and the really plot central stuff. Kvothe learning how to do thousand hands or whatever, or the endless scenes of him looking for denna, those scenes just drag and drag.

I was rather annoyed that the construction of the gram and the Bloodless really had no effect on the story. Both took up significant space. The Adem didn't terribly affect the overall storyline. Tempi could have told him the Chandrian story without him having to go around the world. Similarly, The whole Devi plotline has gone nowhere. I felt after NOTW that everything was leading to something, but with only one book left I'm not so sure now.

PR has said in interviews that he had to cut a lot out of WMF but that he made sure he did not cut out any critical threads. I think that the Adem experience was necessary as a way for Kvothe to develop intricate and effective fighting skills. There are no other opportunities in his world for him to develop effective fighting skills. The Adem fighting skills are unique and are sure to give him an advantage in any fight situations. You could look at Kvothe's Felurian experiences as necessary to enhancing his knowledge of the Amyr however I think that PR also used Felurian as a way to bring Kvothe fast sexual maturity. Kvothe's persona does not lend itself to him finding sexual maturity without serious recourse in his small university life. His experiences with Felurian and Adem help move him from a "pup" to a young man. I think that this story would be better served with 4 or 5 books but since he committed to a trilogy, he has to squeeze in scenarios that seem somewhat disjointed. I book 3 will tie a lot together.

[unJon]

While "singers" might mean something more, the simple explanation fits well. Haliax protects the Chandrian from people that sing songs about them. We know that the Chandrian want knowledge of them removed from the world. We know that they kill singers that sing songs about them. The thing about songs, is they spread like wildfire. So the Chandrian need to find and stomp out the song promptly. Before it starts spreading. Haliax is the Namer. I think it's Haliaz that can tell when people are saying the Names of the Chandrian. He can tell when songs about them are being sung. Haliax "protects" the Seven from singers by being able to tell when people are singing about them and being able to locate the singers so the Chandrian can go and kill them before it's too late.

It fits the facts. There is no need to postulate some other group of "singers."

[Misfortune]

While "singers" might mean something more, the simple explanation fits well. Haliax protects the Chandrian from people that sing songs about them. We know that the Chandrian want knowledge of them removed from the world. We know that they kill singers that sing songs about them. The thing about songs, is they spread like wildfire. So the Chandrian need to find and stomp out the song promptly. Before it starts spreading. Haliax is the Namer. I think it's Haliaz that can tell when people are saying the Names of the Chandrian. He can tell when songs about them are being sung. Haliax "protects" the Seven from singers by being able to tell when people are singing about them and being able to locate the singers so the Chandrian can go and kill them before it's too late.

It fits the facts. There is no need to postulate some other group of "singers."

Interesting, and I really like the thinking outside of the box, but... I disagree. Haliax specifically stated that he protected the Chandrian from the singers. While the Chandrian do aim to suppress info about them, I hardly think that people singing/knowing about them is harmful. Singers as you're thinking of them would be an inconvenience, and perhaps a major one, but not a threat. Unless, of course, there's something we don't know.

[TheValyrianDragonlord]

It's been asked before but I remember anyone answering. When Denna leaves her men just before they get pushy, what does it actually accomplish. I figure the nobles and rich guys are part of a small social circle and her reputation for taking their gifts and running away just before she has to do it with them would spread around and result in her getting blacklisted. I mean she leaves Imre a lot but always comes back and even visits the Eolian all the time. Wouldn't a lot of her former clients see her and get pissed off?

Also noticed something in my NOTW reread. Kvothe learns woodcraft from Laclith. He later dreams about him after his parents are killed by the CHandrian. Laclith is one of the branches of the lockless family. Probably not important but I like the little details that Rothfuss puts in there.

[jurble]

Ya know, that poem from book one

Seven things has Lady Lackless..

blah blah blah

Lackless likes her riddle raveling

Ravel being a term for the Ruh.

Ya think that Kvothe's mom was actually married when she ran away and that the poem is about her not her theoretical mother? But then again, that doesn't really make sense, since Arliden's poem said he wanted to make Netalia his wife, not steal her from her husband. But I'm certain the word raveling is some sort of clue!

Observation: Kvothe is admitted to the University on the 43rd of Caitelyn. Given the longer synodic period of the moon, it implies that the months in Kvotheworld really are 72-ish days. Each University semester being 2 months is roughly 140 days. Assuming their solar year is similar to ours, that means they should only be able to fit 2 in a year. But I was under the impression that there were >2 terms in a year. Though, it's entirely possible there are only summer and winter terms and I totally missed that. But based on the length of their synodic period, they have a 6 month calendar, assuming the months' lengths are lunar like ours are (Month being Moon-th). Though, they could solar months. /shrug

[The Iceman of the North]

Observation: Kvothe is admitted to the University on the 43rd of Caitelyn. Given the longer synodic period of the moon, it implies that the months in Kvotheworld really are 72-ish days. Each University semester being 2 months is roughly 140 days. Assuming their solar year is similar to ours, that means they should only be able to fit 2 in a year. But I was under the impression that there were >2 terms in a year. Though, it's entirely possible there are only summer and winter terms and I totally missed that. But based on the length of their synodic period, they have a 6 month calendar, assuming the months' lengths are lunar like ours are (Month being Moon-th). Though, they could solar months. /shrug

Where did you get the impression that there's more than two semesters each year? if the months are 72-ish days long, there should be 5 months each year.

[AverageGuy]

Wouldn't a lot of her former clients see her and get pissed off?

They're not actually clients as such. While there are implications that Denna was a standard whore in the past, in the present these men aren't consciously paying to be with her. What she's doing is essentially heading off to the bar and waiting for wealthy men to pick her up. She does it with the intention of getting gifts and the knowledge that she might actually have to sleep with them at some point, so she thinks of herself as a whore, but the men she's with probably don't realize what she's doing. And considering the men she targets, for many she's probably one in a long line of women they've moved on from.

Some of them may realize what she did and get pissed off when she leaves. But she can disappear for months. If she's good at picking out the Ambroses and drops them early, and if she correctly judges the timing in leaving for the rest, then most should probably be over her by the time she's back.

Though she doesn't always get away with it. When she screws up, the times she gets in too deep, she does "get ridden."

Where did you get the impression that there's more than two semesters each year? if the months are 72-ish days long, there should be 5 months each year.

I thought the University was year-round. So an odd number of months does seem strange with a two-month term. Of course, if it's a solar or sidereal calendar, the months don't have to perfectly line up with the lunar cycle, so with slightly shorter months and a slightly longer year you could have six months in a year.