Boarders Writing a Novel - Thread V

[Queen of Everything]

I do 750 a day; trick is to just let it flow and worry about editing it later. Your first draft's draft zero -- what I like to call a very detailed and glorified outline, something that's not-even-a-draft. It's prose, obviously, and it shows where you're generally trying to go with plot/action/mood/theme/dialogue, but you're going to be changing it, cutting the clichés, tightening that shit up like a virgin cooch. At first, though, you just have to get something down.

1000's a bit too much for me not because I can't make it flow, but because it ends up tiring me out (I have low mental stamina, hah).

My current fear is, actually, that I'm not going to have enough time in my life to tell all the stories I want to tell.

[kuenjato]

1000 is about my average. Some days it's more, some days less. Like Ebenstone, I have a daughter now, which severely curtails "free" time. More and more I've given to waking at 5 or 6 in the morning so as to have a quiet space.

As my first draft is exactely that - first, and liable for red - it takes me about an hour to write 1k, depending on the subject matter. I can, if in a favorable situation, write upwards of 4-5,000 in a day... but not recently. Perhaps that's for the best, as writing that much in a single session usually means some hardcore editing looms in the future.

[Nebuchadnezzar]

1.5k to 2k seems to be my usual, but I only write 10 or so times a month. I average about 180k a year for the last three years. This year I'm actually ahead of that but... *knock on wood*.

Basically: Most People Aren't Brandon Sanderson.

[manmiles]

I alternate between script and prose (I write audio plays for amateur online audio dramas) while trying to write my own fantasy novels and failing. On a good day, I can try and get 2000 words in, if I take a hammer to my modem.

Which is completely impossible, let me tell you. Of course, at this point, I've started more novels than I've finished, very sad, very sad indeed.

[henderson]

Of course, at this point, I've started more novels than I've finished, very sad, very sad indeed.

Name of the game is to finish, or, at least, that is what I have been told. Still trying to finish my first one.

[kuenjato]

Name of the game is to finish, or, at least, that is what I have been told. Still trying to finish my first one.

It's a satisfying feeling, let me tell you. From my perspective, all the "storytelling tension" -- the vision burning unrecorded in the skull -- vanishes. You're done. Of course, there's lots of editing to go... but the vision itself has been completed, to greater or lesser degree.

As for totals... Let's see:

2007: 375k

2008: 125k (married, returned to school)

2009: 150k

2010: 245k (had a child, which kickstarted my drive...)

2011 (so far) - 150k

[Zoë Sumra]

As for totals... Let's see:

2007: 375k

2008: 125k (married, returned to school)

2009: 150k

2010: 245k (had a child, which kickstarted my drive...)

2011 (so far) - 150k

Aaaah, I remember the days when I was that prolific. Good times. (To be fair, my reduced output over the past few years is partly down to having spent that time revising RD rather than starting anything new.)

I've actually been thinking (worrying) that I'll have to write a stack over the next year or so to compensate for reduced output after having a child...

[Bronn is God]

1000 words one day, only a few or none at all the next. My goal for now is super concentrated writing. I have intentionally split my PoV's up into different documents so when I get bored of writing one, I can switch to another (lets see how well this works).

Also created myself a private Wiki page so I can do some worldbuilding and whatnot when I am tired of writing and later transfer it to a document.

The minimum is 2 hours a day.

I just need to remain focused. There are just so many distractions. Ughh

[kuenjato]

Aaaah, I remember the days when I was that prolific. Good times. (To be fair, my reduced output over the past few years is partly down to having spent that time revising RD rather than starting anything new.)

I've actually been thinking (worrying) that I'll have to write a stack over the next year or so to compensate for reduced output after having a child...

I hear ya. In 2008-2009 I was more revising that writing, which is why I didn't break 200k those years (also, I was cramming 4 years of school into 2 1/2 and figuring out the middle-book blues in a five volume series). In 2007, 2010 and 2011, I've mostly been writing. I'll do two-three edits and then just let the material sit and breath while I work on other things. It's much less stressful/much more fun and I get a lot more done.

I'm working on a free masters degree right now, with the stipulation that I work in high-needs school districts for two years after. I figure I can sort out/shape up all the raw material I'm writing on then...

[ZombieWife]

"All first drafts are shit."

Ernest Hemingway

I've learned to lock away my internal editor on first drafts or else I'll be staring at page 1 for an hour. You should see the utter crap I turn out in first drafts (that are later made super pretty in revision).

For me, it's about 30% time on writing the first draft and 70% of my time revising.

But, I knew a guy who wrote entire stories in his head so that when he did write his first draft, it was near perfect (in grammar, syntax, etc.) I think that he is in the severe minority there.

In the end, find what works for you. What works for me is writing crap first drafts. I really shine on revision.

[ZombieWife]

1000 words one day, only a few or none at all the next. My goal for now is super concentrated writing. I have intentionally split my PoV's up into different documents so when I get bored of writing one, I can switch to another (lets see how well this works).

Also created myself a private Wiki page so I can do some worldbuilding and whatnot when I am tired of writing and later transfer it to a document.

The minimum is 2 hours a day.

I just need to remain focused. There are just so many distractions. Ughh

I love your method on splitting up POVs into different documents. Do you know how you plan to split them up later? I'm curious and very interested.

[Ebenstone]

I'm officially "trunking" Winter's Discord. I've still got it out in the world and I won't rescind any queries/submissions. I think that it's time to move on. After 200 plus (yep, that's not a typo) rejections, it's time to put it away and move on to something else. It does not look like this is going to be "the" book.

I still believe in it and, more importantly, me. But for now, the project will take it's place in both a figurative and literal trunk for me not to look at or fret over for a long time. No more queries. No more subs unless requested. No contests. Nothing.

For now, I'm concentrating on "Sisters of Khoda." I passed 30k and I'm hammering away on it. After that? I think I'm moving on to a YA scifi story bouncing around. Then who knows what.

Kind of bummed, kind of excited. Either way, whatever will be, will be.

[ZombieWife]

I'm officially "trunking" Winter's Discord. I've still got it out in the world and I won't rescind any queries/submissions. I think that it's time to move on. After 200 plus (yep, that's not a typo) rejections, it's time to put it away and move on to something else. It does not look like this is going to be "the" book.

I still believe in it and, more importantly, me. But for now, the project will take it's place in both a figurative and literal trunk for me not to look at or fret over for a long time. No more queries. No more subs unless requested. No contests. Nothing.

For now, I'm concentrating on "Sisters of Khoda." I passed 30k and I'm hammering away on it. After that? I think I'm moving on to a YA scifi story bouncing around. Then who knows what.

Kind of bummed, kind of excited. Either way, whatever will be, will be.

"Trunking" isn't always a bad thing. You may snag some interest and get something else published and then find that there is a home for it as well.

Sorry, hon. 200 rejections hurt. If it makes you feel any better, I received a rejection for a story from a publishing house, then, a second rejection came from that same house (for the same story), then a THIRD. I get that it was probably a technological snafu, but yeah... I got the picture, lol. Even if it wasn't, did they have to send me a notice three times, already? Good grief.

How many words was Winter's Discord? Just out of curiosity?

[Ebenstone]

"Trunking" isn't always a bad thing. You may snag some interest and get something else published and then find that there is a home for it as well.

Sorry, hon. 200 rejections hurt. If it makes you feel any better, I received a rejection for a story from a publishing house, then, a second rejection came from that same house (for the same story), then a THIRD. I get that it was probably a technological snafu, but yeah... I got the picture, lol. Even if it wasn't, did they have to send me a notice three times, already? Good grief.

How many words was Winter's Discord? Just out of curiosity?

When I had an agent the first time (as a YA fantasy) it was 99k. Said agent requested a streamlined MS, so I cut it back to 83k. When agent left firm and went to the editorial side, I shopped around. In December, an agent liked it, gave me 2 pages of notes and I expanded the story to 130k, where is stands now. (He considered it a more traditional fantasy.)

Present WIP looks to be between 85-90k...YA fantasy.

[kuenjato]

When I had an agent the first time (as a YA fantasy) it was 99k. Said agent requested a streamlined MS, so I cut it back to 83k. When agent left firm and went to the editorial side, I shopped around. In December, an agent liked it, gave me 2 pages of notes and I expanded the story to 130k, where is stands now. (He considered it a more traditional fantasy.)

Present WIP looks to be between 85-90k...YA fantasy.

Wasn't WD part of a trilogy or four book series? Are you planning on writing the sequels?

It sounded as if this book was just getting you down. Good idea I think to move on and clear your head. I still haven't much more than glanced at the book I finished in April. Just chugging on the novelletes and short stories at the moment, enjoying the possibilities of single POV and low word counts to complete a tale.

[Ebenstone]

Wasn't WD part of a trilogy or four book series? Are you planning on writing the sequels?

It sounded as if this book was just getting you down. Good idea I think to move on and clear your head. I still haven't much more than glanced at the book I finished in April. Just chugging on the novelletes and short stories at the moment, enjoying the possibilities of single POV and low word counts to complete a tale.

Four book series is the plan, one for each of the seasons: Winter's Discord, Spring's Tempest, Summer's Strife/Sacrifice (up in the air on that one!) and Autumn's Glory. I've got the remaining 3 books outlined and was focusing on working out some back story...going so far as to write a treatment of a prequel trilogy (so much of what happens in these books is a direct result of what happened in the past...think Robert's Rebellion and the tourney at Harrenhall kind of thing.) I've since scrapped that. It's still partially done, but it's time to work on something new.

[Zoë Sumra]

Given how well it seemed to be going for you, Ebenstone, that's a real shame. :( I hope Sisters of Khoda goes well.

I've figured out how to fix two of RD's structural issues, and have drafted the scene that'll do it, but am as yet unsatisfied. Currently vacillating between satisfaction and frustration - I feel like I have a few really good bits sandwiched between not so good bits, and, as aforementioned, the structure's not good.

[Bronn is God]

I love your method on splitting up POVs into different documents. Do you know how you plan to split them up later? I'm curious and very interested.

I have got a general timeline in my head so it shouldnt be that difficult. Also, out of the four PoV's total, two of them are very closely related and the other two are completely isolated. So really, I need only really worry about keep 2/4 in check.

The reason why I am trying this is because in my last attempt, I got bored of characters very easily, thus leading to me cutting the chapter shorter (or shorter than I originally intended) so I could move on to the next POV.

[emberling]

I feel like I have a few really good bits sandwiched between not so good bits, and, as aforementioned, the structure's not good.

I am tending to feel the same way about my novel, except my not-so-good bits are sandwiched between better-but-still-not-so-good bits.

Mostly because I keep comparing my better bits to your good bits and despairing of ever reaching that level of good-bit-ness.

It doesn't help that I have trouble writing out of chronological order, and my structural problem is a big bald spot near the beginning where I need to add a plot or two but I'm not liking any of my ideas. I feel like I'm wading through writers'-block-flavored molasses.

[Zoë Sumra]

Mostly because I keep comparing my better bits to your good bits and despairing of ever reaching that level of good-bit-ness.

*blushes*

It doesn't help that I have trouble writing out of chronological order, and my structural problem is a big bald spot near the beginning where I need to add a plot or two but I'm not liking any of my ideas. I feel like I'm wading through writers'-block-flavored molasses.

Hmm. Is that chronological order by character or chronological order full stop? (I always write best when writing chronologically by character/character group - plotline by plotline. It does create the odd structural problem when locking them together (my problems are mainly caused by me repeatedly rewriting part of the book to shorten it).) If your problem is right at the beginning, have you considered shifting the beginning of the book till after the problem, even if you have to backtrack later?

The in media res thing can't be overstated, even if you have to go back in chapter 2, tell a vast amount of stuff in flashback and then continue from point zero. By the time you flash backwards, the readers are interested in the character. Though it can be overdone - I think Nick Harkaway did this too much in The Gone-away World - it adds immediacy.

If this won't work, can you say any more about what the problem is? Problems close to an opening can affect an entire book, or not, depending on what the problem is - manoeuvring characters into place, for instance, can be annoying but isn't a serious issue.