AGOT Mafia Game n= May 2011.

[House Upcliff]

Not really. Just getting tired of all the meta arguments. It's been what this game has mainly been about so far.

I hear ya about the meta, but it is what it is.

[House Upcliff]

I just reviewed the part of the Day 1 where I started posting and Simba was around. I was obviously in catch-up mode and I hadn't really said anything he later commented on expect reinforcing his call out of Igor not justifying his reads. I don't think I would have commented on that at that point either. So meh.

And holy hell, how does Miss Marple have more posts than anyone besides WW and Barbie? I remember a bit of what she's been saying, but for as much as she's posted,I don't have a good sense of how she feels about people other than Simba.

[House Sunglass]

Ok, people.

6 hours left.

It's time to start hanging somebody up.)

[House Tyrell]

You're saying again that I voted Barbie because of OMGUS, yet at then end of this post, you say it's not because I feel threatened, it's convenient. Which is it? I know you've said convenient in both places, but you give the fact that he voted for me as the most compelling reason why it's the most convenient. I'm not following why this is.

Again with the convenience. I mean, I guess I can see what you are saying - he is an easy target, but I think this is more evident as Day 2 progresses. I don't think it was as evident on day 1. His most notable contribution was talk of night, clearing the Stalin voters and poking low-fliers.

I think you're missing my point here.

1) Barbie listed you as a suspect.

2) If you're FM, you were searching for somebody to throw out there as a suspect. FM often feel nervous about not having at least one suspect on record, and we had gotten to the point on day 1 when you knew you had to commit to something.

3) FM also don't want to make too many enemies. And voting for somebody can often garner their attention and provoke a negative response.

4) So you voted for the one person who already didn't like you. I'm saying that the vote had the dual purpose of:

-being convenient because you had a very easy reason to cast the vote ("Barbie didn't justify his suspicion on me or anybody else")

-being convenient because it wouldn't earn you any additional enemies

Trust me, I know you have a temper. I know you can get emotional. It's not the fact that you lashed out, it's that it felt more manipulative to me than heartfelt. You're denying that you have a history of being abusive and manipulative in order to get players to look in another direction? True, it probably wasn't needed at this early point in the game, but you can't say that it's not in your bag of tricks.

No, I'll admit that I have done that in the past. But I'll also add that I've done it as both an innocent and an evil player. Even when I'm being manipulative with emotion, it's a null tell.

Also, I'll note again (just so nobody is tempted to call me a despicable human being), my post in this game was genuine.

I know you weren't in any danger at the time, but several players had shown a willingness to vote you - mostly players who don't know you. That's a wildcard as you don't know how they will react and play either. It's entirely possible that Sooty, Ernst and Barbie would continue on badgering you the next day with Humpty leading the charge. I'm not saying it's a huge threat, but it does put pressure on you and give you less wiggle room when you want all eyes safely off you.

Yeah, but if I'm the calculating FM you are making me out to be, then why not just wait to see how things shake out on day 2? There was no advantage to making that type of post at the time I made it.

[Magic Mirror]

So...this is awkward.

Hey, guys, guess what? I'm doing a total 180, and saying I no longer want to vote for Simba today.

:leaving:

Part of it is that after rereading the thread, I realized that the impression of Simba's posts that I had in my mind wasn't quite fair (although he still isn't as passionate as usual).

But I think what clinches it is these:

I've had a few moments where I thought Kat may be fake symping me. I'll admit, I am certainly susceptible to somebody who wants to kiss up to me, especially in a game where there are so many people who are attacking me for reasons that I feel are pretty awful. So when I was writing out my tiers last night, I re-read everyone. And I made certain to spend a lot of time on both Kat and Mexward, because they have been my greatest defenders. In the end, I couldn't find much suspicious about either of them.

That was a joke, in recognition of the fact that I feel somewhat susceptible to people kissing up to me right now. When I read his post, I had a vision of Kat or Mexward advising Puff in their secret FM forum - "go ahead and say something nice about Simba...doesn't matter what it is, anything works....look how I've been defending him and he doesn't suspect me at all."

Obviously, I realized the tack I should have taken all along was to kiss up to him so I could coast to victory as he declared me PI. Actually, it's because I've been guilty of this so many times while coming under pressure for reasons I personally thought were bullshit, that I see it as much more of an innocent thought process than an FM one. Also, those posts seem to hint at genuine innocent paranoia and at more reflection than what's appearing in the thread.

Also, I'll note again (just so nobody is tempted to call me a despicable human being), my post in this game was genuine.

Now it's my turn to save a response for after the game.

[House Upcliff]

To be honest Humpty, I didn't expect your suspicions to last. So who are you looking at instead?

Simba, ok, I get your argument now. No new enemy ... blah, blah. I still can't help but feel that comment was more manipulative than heartfelt. That's just plain ole' gut.

[Magic Mirror]

To be honest Humpty, I didn't expect your suspicions to last. So who are you looking at instead?

Wait a minute. Weren't you the one who voted Simba?

Shouldn't you have thought there would have been something in his posts that would make my suspicions last?

The tone of this seems very, "Oh, typical crazy Mina and her paranoid kneejerk theories." Shouldn't you be disappointed that your biggest ally against evil Whiskeyjack has defected? Trying to convince me that I shouldn't have lost confidence in myself?

(Next up is to look at the other four players in my lynch pool. I'm starting to feel worse about you, and to a lesser extent, Marple, as a result of my 180 on Simba.)

[House Targaryen]

6 hours left.

Really?

Remind you all we like to get provisionals.

And thoughts.

For new folk: provisionals are plans of what roled players (good or bad) intend to do during the night. We appreciate them beforehand, so we could end the night sooner, not making you all wait for night results for hours.

Thoughts are... er, just thoughts. Anything you think about this game but don't want to post at the thread, because of having a role, because of having some smart plan or because of any other reason. We love thoughts. These are yummy.

I'll leave long before those 6 hours, but Pebs will wake up shortly after,I suppose.

Nothing new to count, I suppose.

[House Upcliff]

Wait a minute. Weren't you the one who voted Simba?

Shouldn't you have thought there would have been something in his posts that would make my suspicions last?

The tone of this seems very, "Oh, typical crazy Mina and her paranoid kneejerk theories." Shouldn't you be disappointed that your biggest ally against evil Whiskeyjack has defected? Trying to convince me that I shouldn't have lost confidence in myself?

(Next up is to look at the other four players in my lynch pool. I'm starting to feel worse about you, and to a lesser extent, Marple, as a result of my 180 on Simba.)

So you're saying that you aren't known for doing 180s on your initial suspects? I was hoping for, but wasn't counting on your support. I don't see it as crazy Mina, it's just your style. You have to express all your doubts before you settle into the game. Sometimes they stick, but mostly they don't.

Funny you mention Marple, because I am close to placing a vote that way right now. When I realized she had posted so much and I didn't remember even half of it, I did a quick re-read. I get that she is distracted by the Survivor game, but most of her posts are RP (not surprising), 'defending the innocent' (again, not surprising) and being rules/board etiquette police. A lot of posts that say nothing at all. She voted Ernst, but not with a lot of conviction as far as I can tell. She started off today with suspicions of Simba, then veered onto Krakatoa without giving Simba a second look. If we're looking for lazy, floaty FM, she fits. She was defensive (again, sooo not surprising) but it wasn't emotional, it was flippant like she was trying not to cause waves. The only strong stances she takes are on her innocent reads. She defended Starlin, Barbie and Garfield. Simba on day 1, but not now and she's ignoring him at this point. It doesn't all add up. Gonna think and be back.

[House Stokeworth]

As I understood, you don't want to bring us immature ideas, do you? Or what?%)

If I'm not convinced about my ideas, then why would I expect to convince someone else? It's not like I haven't questioned or pressured strong players at all; I just haven't been suspicious or wanting to lynch them - with the notable exception of Malcolm, who I pressured quite successfully :smoking:

It doesn't seem to me as reasoning. That was so strange sentence and I completely disagree with it, so I can't count that as a reason.

Okay, there's two things really wrong here:

We had 5 votes for Starlin, 5 votes for Blofeld, and 2 for Simba. There was less than an hour remaining in the day. You don't see how dangerous it is to try to get 5 votes (for Whiskeyjack! While he was around to defend himself!*) in under an hour?

* presumably Starlin cross-posted with Simba saying he was leaving for work; even if not, he said he'd be checking on his phone

And... you can't count something as a reason if you disagree with it?

Wow, 6 hours? It feels like the day just started. Well, I've been sitting on this paranoid fantasy for a bit and it's just not leaving me alone, and this day needs a kick in the pants anyway, so here goes:

Every time I try to reread I just end up seeing weird, too-perfect connections between WJ and Mina (Simba and Humpty Dumpty). And the crazy thing is that Igor pointed them out as a potential FM team (post 268). Then they have that little fight which didn't seem quite genuine - I couldn't really figure out why WJ was so angry/insulting. History I don't know? Maybe.

So they've been poking each other lightly, a guy suggests they might be a team, then they attack each other viciously and the guy shows up dead in the morning. Then after a bit more poking the next day they kiss and make up.

It's like a fantasy version of the most brazen FM distancing and WIFOM abuse ever. When I saw that Igor had fingered it it simultaneously became utterly implausible and utterly irresistible.

^^ There's a peek into my immature ideas, Mr. Blofeld. I'll just let this sit in the thread for a while and hope it gets some action going so that we can string someone up tonight.

[House Targaryen]

Ok, I am off.

Last counter, as I think, is this:

it is day 2.

12 players remain: Edward, Ernst Blofeld, Garfield, Humpty Dumpty, Krakatoa, Miss Marple, Puff the Magic Dragon, Showgirl Barbie, Simba, Sooty, The Mummy, Wonder Woman.

7 votes are needed for a conviction or 6 to go to night.

2 votes for Garfield (Krakatoa, Showgirl Barbie)

1 vote for Puff the Magic Dragon (Wonder Woman)

1 vote for The Mummy (Simba)

1 vote for Simba (The Mummy)

1 vote for Wonder Woman (Ernst Blofeld)

1 vote for Miss Marple (Puff the Magic Dragon)

2 votes for Krakatoa (Miss Marple, Edward.)

3 players have not voted: Garfield, Humpty Dumpty, Sooty.

[House Stokeworth]

Oh, might as well go all in on the chaos-inciting plan. Simba

[House Upcliff]

Oh God Damn it. I had just convinced myself into voting for Marple because I have to go and the Simba vote was going nowhere. Now I see that it would make little difference as without me, they are both at one. *sigh* Garfield was another option, but I still don't have more than half-formed suspicions and a longing for her to post more. Puff is ... tempting. Just nothing at all to go on and is apparently still around and not in danger of mod-kill.

I don't like Edward, but that is nothing more then meta and gut. Much like my case against Simba, I admit. The more I looked at his case against me, the more I recognized his points objectively. I just happen to know it's crap so it struck me as extremely stretchy when I first read it. When his first major point against me is that my post count was low, that set me off.

[House Reed]

You know, it's really frustrating when people are calling me a follower of Simba when he cited my arguments, not the other way around. Just sayin'. (You realize that this is like, the only time ever when this has ever occurred? It made me want to frame the thread forevermore.) But seriously, can you give me a little bit of credit here that I think I deserve? I haven't been taking Simba's Tier 1 and only suspecting those people. In fact, I think there's only one person from that tier who I really suspect right now, and I voted for them first. :rolleyes:

And I'm not really open to voting for The Mummy right now. I just wanted to know why Simba seemed to do a 180 on her between Day 1 and Day 2. Out of the two people most like me, e.g. the Mummy and Miss Marple, because we all seemed to not suspect Simba on Day 1, I suspect Miss Marple most. Why the knee-jerk newbie defense, and why only for Garfield?

Vote remains where it is.

[House Upcliff]

I have to admit that an Igor kill makes sense for a strong player because he was declaring innocents right and left with no reason to dispute. Can't argue or persuade a player like that - wildcard. That and no one seemed to have any suspicions on him, so yeah, a solid kill for a sharp player. However, Simba is not the only sharp player and I'm not feeling the Humpty/Simba conspiracy.

[House Upcliff]

Gah! Leaving my vote where it is. Just because he made a decent case on me that's not as stretchy as I thought doesn't mean he's not capable of fabricating suspicions when I give him ammo. And now I'm out til later tonight. Ta!

[House Dondarrion]

I'm gone for the next 4-5 hours. Should be back before day end. I still like my vote on Kat. Would like it if someone else would reread her as I feel no one really has.

[House Reed]

And also

I agree with the case. However, I have an issue with the words she uses. It's so damn tentative. You can tell she's not entirely confident in her case and it makes me feel like she's open to letting others convince her it's not true.

Without having lynched anyone evil yet, the only way I'll make a case that someone has to be evil is if 1) it's WJ and I really think he's evil, because nothing less than 100% will lynch this guy, or 2) if someone says go ahead and lynch me, I'm evil.

One time I said I was 100% sure that two people were evil, and they were in fact evil. I had never been so correct about something in the game, and never took more shit for it in the mod thread for being single-minded. So went back to my old, probabilistic ways.

Hey, Miss Marple- why do you suspect me for my case on Garfield, but not Wonder Woman for his vote for Puff? Is it just that no one seems to be believing the case on Puff, or do you actually think Puff could be evil for something he's said?

[House Baratheon]

I'm gone for the next 4-5 hours. Should be back before day end. I still like my vote on Kat. Would like it if someone else would reread her as I feel no one really has.

I've reread, but not willing to vote her.

Also, I'm not happy with voting Simba. I've found some reasons.

I'm ok with lynching Wonder Woman, Miss Marple and Garfield.

[House Connington]

Obviously, I realized the tack I should have taken all along was to kiss up to him so I could coast to victory as he declared me PI. Actually, it's because I've been guilty of this so many times while coming under pressure for reasons I personally thought were bullshit, that I see it as much more of an innocent thought process than an FM one. Also, those posts seem to hint at genuine innocent paranoia and at more reflection than what's appearing in the thread.

Don't forget he was somewhat led into a position where he had to comment on the matter. Personally my opinion on him hasn't changed at all.

I don't expect to be casting my vote until others have made up their minds. I will however be around for the end of the day to hammer in if needed.