Fantasy books you suspect no one else on the board has read

[Raksha the Demon]

NESFA put out a great edition of this a couple years ago.

I loved Silverlock and have read it several times, though not in a long while.

Some other novels I have read that are a bit off the beaten track:

1. Evangeline Walton's wonderful Mabinogion trilogy: The Children of Llyr, The Song of Rhiannon, The Island of the Mighty. Walton blends myth and narrative really well; and if you think A Song of Ice and Fire is tragic, just read The Children of Llyr. My favorite of the three is unquestionably the last, The Island of the Mighty, for her portrait of Gwydion. There's a fourth book, Prince of Annwn, which I didn't like quite as much.

2. R.A. MacAvoy's Tea With the Black Dragon, which is utterly charming and beautifully written. The third book in the "Damiano" trilogy, Raphael, is one I love, mostly because Damiano isn't in it as much (he does tend to whine a bit in the other two books), and the the storyline, involving the mighty angel Raphael forced into corporeal existence as a battered human slave is irresistible. I loved the heroine; and there's a brief appearance by a certain black dragon...

3. The Grey Mane of Morning, by Joy Chant. She's a writer who started out imitating Tolkien in her first published book (Red Moon and Black Mountain), but also devoted half that book to a well-realized nomadic tribal society. In this book, she goes back hundreds of years or more to some crucial events in the history of her horsy nomads, and the result is a wonderful book, at least in my opinion.

4. When Voiha Wakes, by Joy Chant. A non-fantastical fantasy novel. It's non-fantastical in that there is no magic; and fantasy because it takes place on the same world as her other two novels, which is not our own, a pre-technological culture. In this extremely well-written book, Chant writes about a feminist society where women run things. Unlike other treatments I have seen of this idea; the women and men live in harmony, love and prosperity. But this novel, which is also a great love story, shows how and when this society can fail. And the ending really, really worked and still haunts me today.

5. (something completely different) Journey to Fusang, by William Sanders. It's a very amusing and action-packed romp through an alternate-history, in which Western/European societies were outpaced by Arab cultures; and the hero is an Irish adventurer who ends up in what is the western U.S. in our world. "Fusang" is this world's version of San Francisco.

6. The Calling of Bara, by Sheila Sullivan. Set in a ravaged post-tech world of mid-21st century British Isles, it's an interesting book that held my attention, a journey of a young girl who survives rape, and her efforts to find a safe place for herself and her young, psychically gifted son. The disintegration of civilisation is portrayed well, and the characters are engaging. I just wish there had been a sequel.

7. Jack of Shadows, one of my favorites of Roger Zelazny's works. Zelazny was not much of a world-builder, but he captured mythic themes, characterization, action, sorcery/magic and shades of grey in his characters. This is a brilliant short novel of an Earth divided between magic and science; and it is the only time where the type of ending the author employs happens to work (and work well).

8. Tanith Lee's East of Midnight, a delightful novel about a sorceror and his counterpart in parallel worlds, both of whom face dismal fates, exchanging places, and what happens to both of them.

9. Night's Daughter, by Marion Zimmer Bradley. I think that's the title. In between writing episodes of her science fiction "Darkover" series, MZB wrote this short novel which is essentially her version of the classic opera "The Magic Flute" (incorporating at least one of the changes seen in Ingmar Bergman's brilliant movie version of it), emphasizing the growth and change of the character Pamina, told as a fantasy novel.

10. The Face in the Abyss, by A. Merritt (can't remember his first name). It's been years since I read this, but I loved it; definitely my favorite of Merritt's books, which were written in the days of pulp fiction and before feminism. I loved it mostly because of the neat lost civilisation ambiance, and there's a fantastic character in it who is both very human and not human at all...

[Nukelavee]

Bazil Broketail series, by Rowley. Heck, his Vang books or his Fenreille series...

Sunset Warrior trilogy, Lustbader.

I do think it's interesting nobody has mentioned Cherryh at all - not that she is obscure, but she has quite a few really good fantasy works - The Dreamstone, The Goblin Mirror, The Chernevog books (russian myth based).

The Rover - Mel Odom.

[Seli]

I haven't read much of the works mentioned, some Ziivkovic (by way of PS Publishing), some Elfquest, I read half of Bareback (=Benighted) by Whitfield but gave up as a result of the utter stupid, passive and idiotic behaviour of the protagonist.

I've also read some of the older Brins and Tanith Lee (but nothing published this century).

I think most fantasy I have read is relatively main stream, the few things few people will have read are mostly Dutch.

Stone Heart by Charlie Fletcher? (YA)

Under the Penitence by Mary Gentle? (a novella that was incorporated in her Ilario)

Exile's Return by Kate Jacoby? (I don't remember anything about this one, but my notes claim I read it)

Vurt by Jeff Noon (weird, but well worth it, as was his Pollen; never read anything else by him)

[Samalander]

Isn't it interesting that some "obscure" works are actually much better than the better selling Fantasy novels out there? If some "obscure" works are good, why don't they get reprinted? Why don't more people recommend them? In short, why are some drivel books a big success while better works are destined for obscurity?

[Nukelavee]

For the same reason that some excellent little local diners go broke, and McDonalds keeps growing - it's familiar.

People tend to stick to what they are pretty sure they will like, so, people who loved Conan may stick with sword and sorcery. People who read game tie-ins may stick with that...

Plus, some of the better "obscure" stories are really different, so expecting a nice straightforward paladin saves the kingdom story, and getting, oh, say, anything where beloved characters die, or the protagonist isn't a hero..or, god forbid, female, turns away those looking for a quick easy read.

John M Ford may not be really obscure, but, many of his works require a lot of thinking and intelligence from teh reader, he doesn't really spell things out, he loves subtlty and complexity (go find Casting Fortune or Fugue State and read them, amazing stories, but, they make my head swim).

An understated style can do the same thing. I mean, you can't have fantasy with out bloody battles and titties, can you?

You can?

:)

[williamjm]

Anyone here read any of the Dark Sun books ?

I read the first couple, I think. I don't think I liked them very much at the time, although I can hardly remember anything about them now.

[Liadin]

I haven't read much of the works mentioned, some Ziivkovic (by way of PS Publishing), some Elfquest, I read half of Bareback (=Benighted) by Whitfield but gave up as a result of the utter stupid, passive and idiotic behaviour of the protagonist.

Did we read the same book?

For the same reason that some excellent little local diners go broke, and McDonalds keeps growing - it's familiar.

People tend to stick to what they are pretty sure they will like, so, people who loved Conan may stick with sword and sorcery. People who read game tie-ins may stick with that...

Plus, some of the better "obscure" stories are really different, so expecting a nice straightforward paladin saves the kingdom story, and getting, oh, say, anything where beloved characters die, or the protagonist isn't a hero..or, god forbid, female, turns away those looking for a quick easy read.

Are there actually men out there who are bothered by female main characters where the author is male? (There are certainly plenty who will avoid books with female main characters where the author is female.)

To the main point though.... this is definitely part of it, but a lot of what makes a work popular is marketing and luck as far as I can tell. Does anybody really think Rothfuss would've gotten so popular (and so quickly) if the publishers hadn't gone all out for that book? Sure, I suppose it checks the "familiar" box, but lots of other fantasy books do that too without becoming bestsllers.

[Grack21]

I don't know why it would have anything to do with her sex.

There's tons of authors people here never talk about. Especially older ones from before the 90s.

As for Kurtz herself, I just remember reading the first book and thinking it wasn't that good.

I would say it has something to do with her sex based on the several "female authors suck" threads I've seen here. It might not be a big issue, but it certainly is an issue.

[Nukelavee]

Liadin - It wouldn't surprise me in the least, people have odd reasons for liking or not liking stuff.

For example, until 6 years ago, you couldn't have paid me to pick up Pratchett. I loathed the idea of Discworld; I loved Good Omens, but that clearly was due to Gaiman, I think we can all agree on that.

Then a buddy who loves Pratchett loaned me a couple, and I felt obligated to try it; turns out I love it.

So, I had to be honest. The REAL reason I avoided Pratchett was because he was always beside Powers in the bookstore, and he released a book a month, with like 600 books on the shelf, while Tim Powers had 3 books there, and 4 years between releases.

Like I said, people get wierd when it comes to writers.

And, no, I don't really think Gaiman gets all the credit for Good Omens.

[felice]

Faction Paradox- a series spun off from the BBC's range of Doctor Who novels from the 90s and early 2000s...

They're interesting, although Miles' tendencies to use the stories as a soapbox can tend to grate.

Read 'em 8) I considered mentioning them myself, but they're kind of borderline between fantasy and SF. Very highly recommended, especially "This Town Will Never Let Us Go" and "Newtons Sleep". NB "This Town" is the only novel in the series actually written by Miles, and is possibly the most soapboxy thing ever written; if you don't appreciate a strong narrative voice (virtually a major character in its own right, despite technically being standard third person omniscient rather than an anthropomorphic participant in the story) it's not for you, but I found it absolutely fascinating. The books are pretty tenuously linked and don't need to be read in order, and don't need you to be familiar with Doctor Who either.

[Werthead]

Paul Kearney comes up in these threads for his epic fantasy work, but in a way that's a shame as his best book is A Different Kingdom, which, if a comparison must be drawn, is much more like Mythago Wood by Robert Holdstock (who himself probably qualifies for a list like this): a 'weird' work where the real and unreal collide.

[Liadin]

Liadin - It wouldn't surprise me in the least, people have odd reasons for liking or not liking stuff.

For example, until 6 years ago, you couldn't have paid me to pick up Pratchett. I loathed the idea of Discworld; I loved Good Omens, but that clearly was due to Gaiman, I think we can all agree on that.

Then a buddy who loves Pratchett loaned me a couple, and I felt obligated to try it; turns out I love it.

So, I had to be honest. The REAL reason I avoided Pratchett was because he was always beside Powers in the bookstore, and he released a book a month, with like 600 books on the shelf, while Tim Powers had 3 books there, and 4 years between releases.

Like I said, people get wierd when it comes to writers.

Sure, people are weird. It's just very simplistic to say that all most people are looking for in a book is familiarity and everything popular is like that. Especially when we were talking about things that are popular here in particular, because that list includes some unconventional authors.

[uncjeffs]

I have Greyhawk books :D I doubt I'll ever read them, I'll bet they're terrible!

The first 3 are much better than the last 3!

[uncjeffs]

Anyone read Lynn Flewelling? The Tamir triad is better than Nightrunner but both are worth checking out

[MattD]

To answer your question about why I started the thread: essentially, because I was curious to find out how many people have read a lot of the obscure stuff I've read

Fair enough, that makes sense. Your formulation in the first post confused me, as asking two not necessarily related questions at once. But I can see the appeal of asking "hey, am I the only one who read book X?"

One I often wonder about, since the Prydain Chronicles are so often mentioned in lists of GRRM fan's formative readings, is Lloyd Alexander's Westmark Trilogy. It's a middle grade series that takes place in a 18th-century Europe analogue, no magic, and in its own way the series is quite subversive. The first book is a very traditional story of a rightful monarch regaining a throne; but after that it gets really interesting with student revolutionaries, the setting up of a parliamentary system, etc. Basically, what the second volume of the Mistborn trilogy tried to do, but rather better because it goes further, asking whether the traditional fantasy movement of replacing a bad/illegitimate monarch with a good/legitimate one is a true fix, or whether the core problem is with monarchy itself. I read the books when I was around 10 or 11 years old, and they've stayed with me in a lot of ways, influencing what I look for in fantasy, how I define it, etc.

I do find it interesting, and kind of bizarre, how some excellent fantasy authors are hardly ever mentioned here at all. Elliott's books are a good example of that. I realized after writing my review that I talked a lot about how much the Crossroads books surprised me--I was surprised that many of the main characters kept their unpleasant cultural prejudices through the end of the book, that the horrors of war were depicted as starkly as they were, that there was so little romance, and so on--and I think the reason I was so surprised was that they check off most of the boxes you listed (except the pseudo-European and male author ones) and yet are never talked about around here. A couple of people have been pointedly avoiding saying that this happens to female authors because they're female, which I assume is what you're getting at with McKenna (that trilogy sounds fascinating by the way; being cheap myself I've asked the library to order it), but for me that's not a very satisfying explanation.

The female author aspect strikes me as...sufficient reason for some readers to shun (with McKenna I figured it was one strike; the multiple romances ending in marriage was another), but no, it's not necessary in all cases. Given how many people here like Lynch's Gentleman Bastards series, for example, you'd expect Martha Wells's Death of the Necromancer to be mentioned more often than it is (nothwithstanding the silly title); but you'd also expect Steven Brust's Vlad Taltos series to be mentioned more: all three feature charismatic crimelords. So clearly there are a lot of factors, not just author gender. Many of the authors discussed here are authors who have been known to post here (and if any female authors do, it is very rarely). Many of the authors discussed here are of a certain journeyman phase in their careers: authors both older and newer will have developed their own channels for fan discussion. Many of the forum managers and most trusted evaluators here live in Europe, so books available only in North America will be disadvantaged. Etc.

There's also the question of what are really the important "checkboxes" for people. The ones I listed earlier were pretty obvious surface elements, but as with you and In Great Waters, we can't always tell whether people will like a book based just on those large-scale filters. The real commonalities between the books most discussed here may be other things, less obvious...a certain level of prose, a certain degree of description, a certain balance of heroism and anti-heroism, a certain twistyness of plotting, and so forth.

[murphy]

Anyone read Lynn Flewelling? The Tamir triad is better than Nightrunner but both are worth checking out

I have to disagree with you on that. I prefer the Nightrunner series over the Tamir Triad. As they say, 'different strokes'.

[Grack21]

Anyone read Lynn Flewelling? The Tamir triad is better than Nightrunner but both are worth checking out

I read the first three a loooong time ago. I picked up the new Nightrunner but haven't gotten to it yet. I remember liking them back in the 90s.

[Ashartus]

The Breaking of Northwall by Paul O'Williams - never read the rest of the series though, and don't really remember much about this one (I was probably too young when I read it in the early 80's).

Demon Sword by Ken Hood, who is actually Dave Duncan writing under a pseudonym when he was writing faster than his publishers would take his books.

The Losers by David Eddings - while his more traditional fantasies are well known, this book which actually wasn't a re-hash of the Belgariad flew under the radar a bit.

[Render]

How many of you have read Fantasy gem Villains by Necessity?

http://www.amazon.com/Villains-Necessity-Eve-Forward/dp/0812522281/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1305961412&sr=1-1

I bought this book at a yard sale for 25cents. I was very young... it was the first book I ever bought with my own money. So naturally I fell in love with it. It's still sitting on my shelf, along with other guilty pleasures, these many years later.

Some others I would be surprised if anyone has read:

The Dominions of Irth by Adam Lee

The Runespell Trilogy by Jane Welch

Also, I used to read a lot of Ben Bova's novels as a lad. I still have a soft spot for the Orion series.

[Samalander]

Anyone read Lynn Flewelling? The Tamir triad is better than Nightrunner but both are worth checking out

Yes. Nightrunner is still ongoing, and she even published a short story collection to fill in some gaps, called Glimpses.

1) I bought this book at a yard sale for 25cents. I was very young... it was the first book I ever bought with my own money.

2) So naturally I fell in love with it. It's still sitting on my shelf, along with other guilty pleasures, these many years later.

1) Talk about a good return on one's investment...Did you see what they were going for these day?

2) :thumbsup: