U.S. Politics 29

[Commodore]

Ace's live debate chat has me in tears, great stuff.

[Former Lord of Winterfell]

Well, the rather obvious other option is hyperbole. Kind of like when Obama claimed that nobody was as outspoken against anti-semitism as he was.

And Kyl would oppose money going to Planned Parenthood whether the percentage was 1 percent or 99. So would I, for that matter.

[Atreides]

This debate is...interesting...and probably making for some good ad material for both sides of the political divide.

For the record, I don't think the presidential campaign is decided yet. I'll agree to disagree with Bachmann on that one. Also, I think the EPA might do more than kill jobs. And it's good to know that running a business is almost the same as running a country, thanks Mr. Cain.

[nickg]

US politics are a complete and utter joke, as most of this thread proves. And I now have a headache.

[awesome possum]

And Kyl would oppose money going to Planned Parenthood whether the percentage was 1 percent or 99. So would I, for that matter.

I know, right? We'd all be better off if those poor people trying to be safe and healthy with our money didn't have access to anything resembling health care.

[SkynJay]

Well, the rather obvious other option is hyperbole. Kind of like when Obama claimed that nobody was as outspoken against anti-semitism as he was.

And Kyl would oppose money going to Planned Parenthood whether the percentage was 1 percent or 99. So would I, for that matter.

But would his supporters? Because he didnt say anything like this, instead he popped off with an absurd number. Maybe he thought his fake number would be better for gaining support than 1 %.

[Shryke]

Well, the rather obvious other option is hyperbole. Kind of like when Obama claimed that nobody was as outspoken against anti-semitism as he was.

Hyperbole is making 3% into 90%? How is this any different from lying?

I guess "100% of all Americans are women" is now also hyperbole.

"Only 1% of the US Federal Budget goes to Medicare so there's no reason to try and cut the program!"

"95% of Jews are mass murders, that's why the holocaust was ok!"

I'm not lying, it's hyperbole!

And Kyl would oppose money going to Planned Parenthood whether the percentage was 1 percent or 99. So would I, for that matter.

So why did he even bring up the blatantly false statement? Why is he even blabbing on about abortions then? On what grounds does he (and you) then oppose funding Planned Parenthood?

[Tempra]

In another indication that the Democrats don't give a shit whatsoever, Obama says he'd resign if he was in Weiner's position. The whole party, save Rangel, has turned on the guy. BUT DON'T BE FOOLED. THIS MEANS NOTHING.

http://www.cnn.com/2011/POLITICS/06/13/weiner.scandal/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

[Shryke]

In another indication that the Democrats don't give a shit whatsoever, Obama says he'd resign if he was in Weiner's position. The whole party, save Rangel, has turned on the guy. BUT DON'T BE FOOLED. THIS MEANS NOTHING.

http://www.cnn.com/2011/POLITICS/06/13/weiner.scandal/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

:lol: Yeah, sure he would...

[Horselover Fat]

Fucking hyperbole? you are seriously grasping at straws here FLOW. Did you watch the video? there is no way that was hyperbole. his quote;

"If you want an abortion, you go to Planned Parenthood, and that's well over 90% of what Planned Parenthood does."

This is a statement of "fact" on his part.

Also, why did he, if the statement was purely hyperbolic, then change the statement in congressional record? Yes, unlike the rest of us, congressmen have the ability to edit reality and change the statements that they make "on the record". Kyl changed the record to edit out any mention of percentages at all. It now reads;

"If you want an abortion, you go to Planned Parenthood, and that's what Planned Parenthood does."

Why did he change it? because he was caught. He was caught and he didn't have anyone willing to tell him to claim it was hyperbole because that excuse is absurd on its face.

Look, people can talk out their asses if they want. But not if they are a member of congress speaking on the record. That is utterly unacceptable and you should be equally unwilling to accept it

[Asarlai]

Also, why did he, if the statement was purely hyperbolic, then change the statement in congressional record? Yes, unlike the rest of us, congressmen have the ability to edit reality and change the statements that they make "on the record"

That's pretty screwed up.

[Frog Eater]

So I watched the Republican debate last night, because I was really curious as to what would be the main talking points.

Bachman killed me when she said that all the EPA does is kill jobs. Really? I didn't know that the EPA was even a debate issue. I dont know about you, but I like clean drinking water and breathable air. Thanks EPA.

Everyone on stage agreed that Social Security and Medicare needs to be re-worked. I think that Repubs are going to try to trot out the personal social security account programs again.

A few sided with Paul Ryan's medicare voucher programs. I am pretty sure that since I am less than 40, I wont be seeing medicare.

Everyone on stage bemoaned the evils of Obamacare. Really Democrats, you should have pushed through Universal Health Care, you would have gotten the same grief as you are getting from Obamacare.

[TrackerNeil]

Everyone on stage agreed that Social Security and Medicare needs to be re-worked. I think that Repubs are going to try to trot out the personal social security account programs again.

I hope they do. That would be like Jaime Lannister insisting upon fighting the Battle of the Whispering Wood once again.

[awesome possum]

It's Michelle Bachmann. A good portion of what she says is fabricated in fantasy land.

The fact that she's considered a top candidate for the GOP nomination shows just how utterly ridiculous American politics has become.

[Former Lord of Winterfell]

Hyperbole is making 3% into 90%? How is this any different from lying?

You tell me:

"'And nobody has spoken out more fiercely on the issue of anti- Semitism than I have.'

Really? No one?

Elie Wiesel? Simon Wiesenthal? Alan Dershowitz?

No one?"

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/04/somebody-call-a.html

I'm hardly defending Kyl -- I said right at the outset that his comment was stupid and made him look bad. But that's what gaffes are, and politicians in general are famous for them -- speaking on an issue and getting a fact wrong is hardly uncommon. In this case, as with most gaffes, the error was obvious, and nobody intentionally makes a false statement that they know will be easily disproven in a matter of minutes. Especially given that a much larger number of people likely were aware of the error than they were of the initial statement. He obviously wishes he hadn't said it, and -- again as is very common -- edited his comments in the Congressional Record.

The funny part about this is that you guys tossed this up as sort of a comparator to Weiner. Yet Democratic politicians themselves don't seem to see any comparison at all. Lots of them have called for Weiner to resign based on his conduct and statements, and I haven't heard any of them say the same about Kyl based on his. Why? Because they know they all do that on occasion. They speak on so many different issues that they inevitably screw something up, and everyone knows that nobody really wants to do that.

So you can play all the sophist's games you want on an internet message board, but the truth is the real world knows the two incidents are remotely comparable.

[Shryke]

Actually he didn't say it was a flub. He said it "wasn't intended to be a factual statement".

ie - he meant to say it, but it wasn't meant to be true

You can take from that what you will.

And you are right, they aren't comparable. One was a congressman supporting legislation through either falsehood or deliberate ignorance and the other is some congressman mailing (as far as we know willing) women pictures of his penis.

That one has the media hounding him and people calling for his resignation and the other is completely ignored tells you about what the priorities of many people are.

Shit, you want more directly comparable, look at how much coverage former Senator Ensign got for actual corruption.

[awesome possum]

Shit, you want more directly comparable, look at how much coverage former Senator Ensign got for actual corruption.

Or Tom Delay. I think the guy got more coverage from Dancing with the Stars than all of his corruption proceedings and trial combined.

We're a country of idiots, and as a result we focus on idiotic topics.

[Former Lord of Winterfell]

Actually he didn't say it was a flub. He said it "wasn't intended to be a factual statement".

What about Obama's "And nobody has spoken out more fiercely on the issue of anti-Semitism than I have" statement? I mean, i've mentioned it twice, and you've failed to address it both times. It's laughably false given people like Wiesenthal and thousands of others.

[awesome possum]

What about Obama's "And nobody has spoken out more fiercely on the issue of anti-Semitism than I have" statement? I mean, i've mentioned it twice, and you've failed to address it both times. It's laughably false given people like Wiesenthal and thousands of others.

What about it? I mean, besides trying to use it to change the subject because you know you're looking pretty foolish with your Kyl defense?

[Shryke]

What about Obama's "And nobody has spoken out more fiercely on the issue of anti-Semitism than I have" statement? I mean, i've mentioned it twice, and you've failed to address it both times. It's laughably false given people like Wiesenthal and thousands of others.

Firstly, what does that have to do with what you quoted? He didn't say it was a flub, he said it wasn't meant to be true. So he was lying to support his position.

As for the Obama comment, FLOW that's what hyperbole actually looks like. Taking something and then making it more whatever-it-is to the extreme as a figure of speech.

"I speak about alot against anti-semitism" becomes "No one speaks out against anti-semitism more then me".

Kyl's comment is just flat out false. Hyperbole would be if more then half of what PP did was abortion and Kyl claimed it was 90% or the like. 5% to 90% isn't hyperbole, it's false because it's taking the truth and claiming the opposite of that, not exaggerating it. "almost none of what PP does is abortions" becomes "almost all of what they do is abortions"? Really? Complete lie.

If I said "the vast majority of people are gay", that would be false, not hyperbole. This is what Sen. Kyl was doing.