[ADWD SPOILERS] The Lost Lord

[Zeke]

Lol I agree with you : without major foreshadowing this type of thing simply appears too random to be satisfying.

And up next the Greywolf headed revived corpse of Robb Stark will battle the reanimated UnGregor Clegane for the fate of all Westeros!

!!!

[malarky1231]

I don't know if they were lovers, it might just mean that Connington was gay for Rhaegar, but Rhaegar never considered Connington anymore than a close friend.

Seriously I never catch any of these gay relationships. I completely missed Dumblemore and renly/loras. I guess I'm just not paying close enough attention, of just blind to what their thoughts really mean.

[MyDogIsNamedDanerys]

I don't know if they were lovers, it might just mean that Connington was gay for Rhaegar, but Rhaegar never considered Connington anymore than a close friend.

So can someone tell me what I missed?? I listened to this chapter twice and still don't know why people are saying that Jon Connington is gay (and perhaps in love with Rhaegar).

Seriously I never catch any of these gay relationships. I completely missed Dumblemore

Don't feel bad about that one. There's absolutely no evidence for it in the text until after she made the announcement. I still sometimes think JKR was just messing with Lupin/Sirius shippers (there was so much more evidence for that than Dumbledore=gay...)

[malarky1231]

Could Griff and YG be involved in pederasty?

[Lord of Starfal]

Do we actually have it in Neds thoughts that Lyanna died, or just what he says?

Oooh... That may be the most intriguing question. Lemore's identity might well prove as startling as young Grif's, if not more so. "Promise me, Ned..." that you'll let the world believe I'm dead? Frankly, I can't figure out why no one has ever thought of that as the possible promise before. I'll tell you what throws a bit of water on it for me - and that is Ned's clearly unfeigned sadness when he sees Arya's willfulness. If you'll forgive a possibly somewhat botched quote, since I don't have AGoT in front of me, he says, "You have a touch of the wolf blood in you. Lyanna did as well." Arya, surprised by the comparrison notes that Lyanna was beautiful, and Ned says, "Yes, beautiful... and dead." He may have promissed Lyanna, but he wouldn't repeat the lie unnecessarily. Especially not to Arya.

No, I don't know who Lemore is. But Lyanna is dead. To discover who Lemore is, the list shouldn't be too long - all we need to do is find a woman of the right age who would have been forced to leave Westeros with the fall of the Targaryens. If we look for houses that were loyal to the end, Dayne is pretty high on the list. But I must have missed whatever other clues suggested that she might be Ashara. But who else is missing? She wasn't Tysha, I don't think she could be Lyanna, and we know she is not Elia. I can't think of another woman of the correct age who would be significant accept Ashara.

[Lord of Starfal]

I may have missed something, but where the hell is Blackfyre - the sword?

If I remember correctly Bitterstill brought it to Essos when he went in exile, right? So it should be related to the Golden Company somehow.

I've thought a lot about this, and there is seems to be no question that the golden should still have Blackfyre. Either way, we have a big reveal coming. Going into the book, it seemed a virtual certainty that the golden company was backing Qwentyn - but that now seems to have been completely wrong. My guess was that it was Qwentyn's intention to give it to Danaerys as a wedding present. Now, we will have to see whether the golden company gives it to Aegon. I have to say, I doubt it. First of all, Bittersteel never risked it on untested kids, as we learn in the Mystery Knight. And then, the golden company may have lost it.

Somehow, Blackfyre has to end up in the hands of Danaerys, so that she can bestow it on Jorah Mormont, fulfilling her promise that one day he would have a sword from her hands unlike any on earth?

Why would she forgive Jorah Mormont? Well, I didn't check in on views in the last Tyrion chapter, but there is no doubt in my mind that it was Jorah Mormont who captured Tyrion, and means to deliver him to the queen - not Cersei, but Danaerys. Sorry if everyone already figured that out, but if not, re-read the last page of Tyrion's last chapter. The man described is Mormont to a tee.

[Tall Tyrion Lannister!]

if Lemore was Lyanna why would she want to be presumed dead?

[Valmy]

It was not exactly obvious or predictable that Aegon was alive but that vision of Rhaegar at his birth in the House of the Undying in ACoK made it certainly plausible. I am glad a male and hopefully fertile Targ is still alive that certainly...ups the stakes. I also am glad to see another famous participant in Robert's rebellion still alive.

Well now the Dragon has three heads it seems. Dany, Aegon, and (maybe) Jon Snow. That was what we were told back in the early books and that is now what we have.

Of all the nutty plot twists in this novel this was probably the least the surprising, at least to me.

[malarky1231]

It couldn't be Lyanna bc she would be in her early 30s, not her 40s. Plus Lyanna is described as having a long face and as hot-blooded. Lemore is more likely to be Ashara Dayne.

[Valmy]

It couldn't be Lyanna bc she would be in her early 30s, not her 40s. Plus Lyanna is described as having a long face and as hot-blooded. Lemore is more likely to be Ashara Dayne.

Woah *mind blown*

So um...when she went to the cliffs to toss herself off she was instead picked up by...Varys?

[malarky1231]

She could've faked her death, although how I am not certain. It could be that one of Varys/Illyrio's spies picked her up, much the same way Sansa was picked up by LF's agents. However, I don't think she would be able to stay afloat carrying the sword Dawn. Unless she managed to hang onto a cliff or drop the sword on one of the rocks by the sea.

[Tall Tyrion Lannister!]

Did anybody actually see her fling herself off the cliffs? Cause if not it could easily just have been a made up story.

[SpaceChampion]

Well it could be Varys's plan all along was the downfall of the Targ line and restoration of the Blackfyre line, by pretending this Blackfyre scion is Aegon Targaryen. Maybe he's a Blackfyre scion himself, and all his stories about his origins are false. If Varys and Young Griff are Blackfyres through the female line, then in his eyes Young Griff IS the legitimate heir, even though he is not Aegon.

[Silverin]

Even if he did know about it, Dornish laws make no gender distinction as to the succession laws, so in his mind Dany still has the best claim, right?

I dont think so, Doran's heir was his daughter not his brother, which means despite the fact that gender does not matter, Rhaegar's child still comes before Dany since Rhaegar was Aery's firstborn.

i liked the chapters very much as well, cant wait to see what he will doin Westeros, and how will Dany respond to that.

And maybe the mummer's dragon does not mean he is not a Targ, just that he is put on the Throne by Varys and Illiryo.

But as others said, he himself believes he is Aegon, and even Jon believes so.

I could still see that he is probably not a true Targ, and it may seem strange but for the Kingdom it would maybe better. Varys said he wants what is best to the realm, but if they put a real Targ on the throne who bears the mad DNA, there is no garantie that his successor would be a good king as well, it would be too much of a gamble. But on the other hand, until there is a 'Targ' on the Throne there will be much fight for the right of it.

So the best candidate would be a Targ who is not a Targ. And Aegon could be just this.

[ABeauty]

Oh, I'm all conflicted about this development. On the one hand it is great that one of Elia's children managed to survive (I'd hope for both after the start of this chapter but I guess that it would be too hard to find a match for the older girl - at least the kitten survived), but on the other it is a bit out of nowhere and now there seem to be Targaryens everywhere! I was really hoping for a blackfyre pretender, as I feel sorry for ole Daemon. And the fact that the 'male' line is extinct but we don't know anything about the female line makes me suspect that there might be a few more with the Targaryen 'look' out there too. I've always felt that George hasn't really considered the Targaryen women, their marriages (they can't all have married their brothers etc after all) and their children enough. I'm also concerned that poor Aegon is going to get to Westeros and immediately get killed or die pretty soon to make way for Dany, and I really don't want that to happen much as I love Dany. I'd rather they got married and shared the throne as long as Dany gets to keep the dragons.

[wolverine]

I think Young Griff is going to die long before the conclusion of the books. It may be a grand death, it may be something trivial but I think his life expectancy is pretty short right now.

[Valmy]

I think Young Griff is going to die long before the conclusion of the books. It may be a grand death, it may be something trivial but I think his life expectancy is pretty short right now.

Yeah I don't think so. After all he is the Prince that was Promised and his is the Song of Ice and Fire.

[FuliginEyes]

Not sure if I like the developments. I rather preferred when those who were considered dead - remained dead. Next thing we'll have Rhaegar showing up like "yo that was actually some other dude with rubies on his armor..." /hate

I totally agree - the dead should stay dead. For that reason I really hope that this is not the real Aegon.

I am really loving Jon Connington though!

[Valmy]

I totally agree - the dead should stay dead. For that reason I really hope that this is not the real Aegon.

If Rhaegar really believed that Aegon was the Prince that Was Promised, and he obviously did believe that, then it makes perfect sense he had Jon Connington take him away...just in case. Jon Connington thinks he is the real Aegon and I just cannot imagine why Rhaegar would have sent him on his way on a pointless mission.

[Nina]

If Rhaegar really believed that Aegon was the Prince that Was Promised, and he obviously did believe that, then it makes perfect sense he had Jon Connington take him away...just in case. Jon Connington thinks he is the real Aegon and I just cannot imagine why Rhaegar would have sent him on his way on a pointless mission.

According to JC, of whom was the plan to send Aegon, anyway? Varis or Rhaegar?