[ADWD SPOILERS] The Ghost in Winterfell / "There must ALWAYS be a Stark in Winterfell

[CrypticWeirwood]

If nobody could possibly know, then how does the theory have any merit? What proof do we possibly have other than the fact that he and the miller's wife were screwing? There's no way GrrM can confirm this speculation in universe if no one even knows about it.

Sure he could. A thousand eyes, and two.

[ZacharyB]

Sure he could. A thousand eyes, and two.

So theon and the miller's wife screw in godswoods?

that's hot. Let's hope Bran sees it, because otherwise we'll never know. :3

[Restless]

Big plot twist in TWoW: Weirwoods can talk? :P

More than that, weirwoods know which man "made" the kid.

If woman sleeps with more than 1 man, relatively close in time, how they could know the father?

[ZacharyB]

More than that, weirwoods know which man "made" the kid.

If woman sleeps with more than 1 man, relatively close in time, how they could know the father?

So theon and the miller's wife screw in godswoods?

that's hot. Let's hope Bran sees it, because otherwise we'll never know. :3

[Blizzard]

So theon and the miller's wife screw in godswoods?

that's hot. Let's hope Bran sees it, because otherwise we'll never know. :3

That made me laugh heartedly :) :rofl:

[Wise Westerosi]

Re: Howland Reed. I read on-line somewhere that GRRM said in answer to a question that he would never appear in the books, because he has too much information. Don't remember more, and have no link.

If it is the quote I'm thinking, the comment wasn't that Howland Reed would never appear in the books, but rather that he'd never be a POV character (like Littlefinger and Varys) because he has too much information.

Anyway, I originally though Bran was somehow responsible for killings haunting weirwood and warging when I first read. But I can totally see Theon having dissociative identity disorder.

[DragonEye]

I'd go with it being Benjen hiding in the crypts if it wasn't Theon, but I thinks thats just because I want him to be alive, but at the same time I dont see him ever deciding to become a deserter from the NW

[CrypticWeirwood]

I'd go with it being Benjen hiding in the crypts if it wasn't Theon, but I thinks thats just because I want him to be alive, but at the same time I dont see him ever deciding to become a deserter from the NW

No, I agree. Benjen would run, but never desert.

I am pretty sure that what happened to Benjen is what as Bran said would happen to him. Remembering Old Nan’s tale of the Last Hero sent out to find the Children to learn out to fight the Others, Bran blurts out, when learning from Yoren telling Robb that Benjen had gone missing, that the Children would help Benjen.

Surely that is just what happened, although the details are unclear. If Benjen learned the answer form Children, than it makes sense that it was he who made the newly buried obsidian weapons cache that Ghost (possibly directed by Bloodraven) found at the First of First Men. Given all the ravens there, Bloodraven surely knew where they were and their peril.

That doesn’t necessarily make Coldhands Benjen of course.

[Cold Mist]

Has anyone hazarded a guess that it's Rickon and Osha holed up in the crypts? I know it's far fetched, but when Wyman Manderly spoke to Davos concerning Rickon, he mentioned a place where "men were known to break their fast on human flesh". The main assumption is probably right for them, about Skaagos, but what if Manderly were foreshadowing his intent to serve Frey Pie to the wedding guests at Winterfell?

It might also explain the 'butchery' of Little Walder as evidence of Shaggydog, although the style of butchery was not given in detail. I suppose they'd say he was mauled and not butchered, but it's food for thought.

Remember, Maester Luwin called Osha to the side and spoke to her privately as he was dying, could he have been talking about the lower crypts that Theon tells Lady Dustin about when they visit Ned's untenanted tomb? Some underground network of something-or-other?

I can't reason out why they would travel so far only to return to Winterfell, but I also can't at the moment remember the words they had with Bran and the frog twins before they parted.

[Galen M]

Has anyone hazarded a guess that it's Rickon and Osha holed up in the crypts? I know it's far fetched, but when Wyman Manderly spoke to Davos concerning Rickon, he mentioned a place where "men were known to break their fast on human flesh". The main assumption is probably right for them, about Skaagos, but what if Manderly were foreshadowing his intent to serve Frey Pie to the wedding guests at Winterfell?

Wasn't that quote from Davos's internal monologue?

[daenerys snow]

^ but i took that as a place that was generally known as having cannabalism and lord manderly's frey pie is still something of a secret. so not likely.

[3CityApache]

Has anyone hazarded a guess that it's Rickon and Osha holed up in the crypts? I know it's far fetched, but when Wyman Manderly spoke to Davos concerning Rickon, he mentioned a place where "men were known to break their fast on human flesh". The main assumption is probably right for them, about Skaagos, but what if Manderly were foreshadowing his intent to serve Frey Pie to the wedding guests at Winterfell?

But Manderly sent Davos for Rickon because he needed his skills as a sailor, it was explicitly said that his own men are not skilled enough to safely reach the destination. So it definitely couldn't be just Winterfell. ;)

And it wasn't breakfast, when the Frey Pie was served, after all. :)

And yes, I also think it was only Davos' internal monologue.

[Blizzard]

But Manderly sent Davos for Rickon because he needed his skills as a sailor, it was explicitly said that his own men are not skilled enough to safely reach the destination. So it definitely couldn't be just Winterfell. ;)

I agree. He is going to somewhere like Skaagos or maybe even Hardhome but that is unlikely saying they went south, or so we presume.

[daenerys snow]

^ that's the part i don't get. i was under the impression that they went south also and skaagos is north. and it's an island where would osha get a boat and how would she get the rather wild shaggydog onto said boat? and iirc there was mention of navigating a river not a sea. but i could be wrong.

[My name is Reek]

Has anyone hazarded a guess that it's Rickon and Osha holed up in the crypts? I know it's far fetched, but when Wyman Manderly spoke to Davos concerning Rickon, he mentioned a place where "men were known to break their fast on human flesh". The main assumption is probably right for them, about Skaagos, but what if Manderly were foreshadowing his intent to serve Frey Pie to the wedding guests at Winterfell?

It might also explain the 'butchery' of Little Walder as evidence of Shaggydog, although the style of butchery was not given in detail. I suppose they'd say he was mauled and not butchered, but it's food for thought.

Remember, Maester Luwin called Osha to the side and spoke to her privately as he was dying, could he have been talking about the lower crypts that Theon tells Lady Dustin about when they visit Ned's untenanted tomb? Some underground network of something-or-other?

I can't reason out why they would travel so far only to return to Winterfell, but I also can't at the moment remember the words they had with Bran and the frog twins before they parted.

When Davos was briefed by Wyman Manderly, Wyman said something along the lines of 'your're the right guy for the job' and the fact that he needed a ship to get there seems to imply that it's an island or a place that is easier to access by ship-and you need to be a skilled seafarer. So I think that they went to an island (Skagos or nearby as it would be somewhere that a smuggler/seafarer truly fears) or they went up some river (perhaps to the crannogmen? and Howland Reed.

[Lord Damian]

I'd go with it being Benjen hiding in the crypts if it wasn't Theon, but I thinks thats just because I want him to be alive, but at the same time I dont see him ever deciding to become a deserter from the NW

Does anyone think that Benjen is alive and not a wight walker? Could Benjen have came back to Winterfell after learning of the attempt on Bran, Ned and abandoned his horse so as to not appear to be a deserter. He would certainly know about the crypts, the lower levels to hide and could be causing some real damage

[jon rr stark]

Its Ned Stark. Maybe HBO asked for a creative way to include Sean Bean in future seasons. Also, we know Ned's sword was not with him which may alow for his remains to be brought back to winterfell. Did'nt we possibly see Ned's ghost somewhere in Arya chapter in one of the books? HBO can now take its creative liberties and make Ned a Ghost in the TV series without ruining the books.

Or it was a clever chapter title to allow GRRM to disguise future chapters about Jon Snow as Ghost's POV.

Like this, I only got into GoT from the HBO series especially because Sean Bean was in it. I bought the books to get ahead and see if he realy dies. I'm sure they would bring back such an actor if they could. I think CotF warned bran about bringing back spirits, while bloodraven said it couldnt be done.

[Danyl Stark]

Various Stark ghosts including Ned, Robb, Rickard, Brandon & Lyanna with a little help from the gods coming to kick some betrayers-of-the-guest-right ass. Jory's ghost helps too, i've read all books that are out at moment, how does anyone like Jaime Lannister, i just cant forgive him for telling his men to kill Jory, the Karstark boys or for pushing Bran out the window, or watching Rickard & Brandon die at KL & mostly his part in Robb's death.

Also "There must always be a Stark in Winterfell" kinda failed.

[kephv]

or watching Rickard & Brandon die at KL

Not really much he could've done there but watch.

[Brandon the Epithetless]

Various Stark ghosts including Ned, Robb, Rickard, Brandon & Lyanna with a little help from the gods coming to kick some betrayers-of-the-guest-right ass. Jory's ghost helps too, i've read all books that are out at moment, how does anyone like Jaime Lannister, i just cant forgive him for telling his men to kill Jory, the Karstark boys or for pushing Bran out the window, or watching Rickard & Brandon die at KL & mostly his part in Robb's death.

Also "There must always be a Stark in Winterfell" kinda failed.

The Karstark boys died in battle, they practically threw themselves in between Jaime and Robb which was the thing to do as they were Robb's bodyguards. Jaime saw a chance to kill the enemy commander and the opportunity to do so fades with every passing second, do you truly expect him to stop and check if the bodyguard blocking his path was a minor? Dying young in battle is a fact of life in this world.

Watching Brandon & Rickard die, what good will interfering do anyone? surely other guards would have stopped him and now we'll have 3 dead characters instead of 2. Hightower explicitly warned him off, so the Lord Commander must have seen something in Jaime's demeanor to suppose that Jaime is about to interfere. What does he do when alone with a King threatening to burn down the city and thousands of innocent people? He kills him.

His part in Robb's death? He had no part in it, aside from a parting shot to Roose, Tywin planned Robb's death and Roose carried it out, a recently released Jaime couldn't have stopped it even if he wanted to. And do you expect him to want to? So let's suppose Jaime tried to talk Roose out of it, what would that have achieved? Roose wants to please Tywin, the one who ultimately controls the Lannister machine, not Jaime so tell me how could he have convinced Roose.

Having Ned's men killed, is a stupid thing to do but Jaime just heard that the Starks kidnapped his brother. Regardless of your preference for Jory, Catelyn practically declared war on the Lannisters by taking Tyrion in public and Jaime retaliated like any hot-tempered man would have, brash, idiotic even, but quite understandable. Remember Brandon's reaction to Lyanna's kidnapping?

I'll give you pushing Bran out of that window though. While Martin gave us Jaime's motivation for that action, it does not make it acceptable. And people who enjoy Jaime's redemption arc(like me) should not forget that he attempted to murder a child. But he has gone so far from this point even refusing to kill Edmure's unborn child for his favorite aunt, who fears a Tully heir threatening her son's inheritance.