Ferrous Posted July 17, 2011 Share Posted July 17, 2011 To be fair to Aerys (what a strange thing to say), there has been precedent for that exact plan: the Second Blackfyre Rebellion. Just one of the many Dunk and Egg references GRRM seemed to sprinkle throughout this novel--Pennytree, a Targaryen prince named Aegon and his faithful knight Dunk Duck, Bran's vision likely foreshadowing something for the fourth story. There are probably a bunch more.I do have to wonder about Varys. What we've gotten of him in the present seems to show that's he an ardent Targ loyalist, and yet during Aerys' reign he seems to have done a fair amount to encourage the king's paranoid tendencies. What gives? Was he trying to turn the realm against Aerys to pave the way for Rhaegar, likely a far better king, to depose him? If so, why rat Rhaegar out if he's gathering some buddies together to have a tourny and maybe plot some treason?Maybe he thought Rhaegar would be a bad king, and wanted Aerys to get rid of him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villager Posted July 17, 2011 Share Posted July 17, 2011 Varys wants to instigate a war that would make every major house extinct, save the Targs, thus abolishing feudalism and creating a centralized, unified state under the dragons. Or somesuch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howdyphillip Posted July 17, 2011 Share Posted July 17, 2011 Or he's pandering to HBO now to keep the series low budget.Obviously... A scene in which a dragon descends into a gladiatorial arena filled with thousands, sets people on fire, eats them, and then is mounted by a Queen and flies away would be dirt cheap to film. I work in the television industry. If you think that this book, or anything that George RR Martin writes is pandering to a television budget, then you do not understand the industry. I promise you that there is a bunch of HBO execs that just put the book down that are pounding their heads right now in frustration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ahmrogar Posted July 17, 2011 Share Posted July 17, 2011 To be fair to Aerys (what a strange thing to say), there has been precedent for that exact plan: the Second Blackfyre Rebellion. Just one of the many Dunk and Egg references GRRM seemed to sprinkle throughout this novel--Pennytree, a Targaryen prince named Aegon and his faithful knight Dunk Duck, Bran's vision likely foreshadowing something for the fourth story. There are probably a bunch more.I do have to wonder about Varys. What we've gotten of him in the present seems to show that's he an ardent Targ loyalist, and yet during Aerys' reign he seems to have done a fair amount to encourage the king's paranoid tendencies. What gives? Was he trying to turn the realm against Aerys to pave the way for Rhaegar, likely a far better king, to depose him? If so, why rat Rhaegar out if he's gathering some buddies together to have a tourny and maybe plot some treason?Do we know that is 'paranoia'? Maybe all that he said WAS true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisdaw Posted July 17, 2011 Share Posted July 17, 2011 To be fair to Aerys (what a strange thing to say), there has been precedent for that exact plan: the Second Blackfyre Rebellion.That it happened before makes for a good reason why Aerys in all his paranoia would suspect and fear it, but doesn't make it any more or less likely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Time for Wolves Posted July 17, 2011 Share Posted July 17, 2011 I don't think Brandon raped Ashara just seduced her. I think Ran is definitely onto something with this esp. with Ned's thoughts about his brother in AGOT. Wait I'm really confused, can someone explain to me how all these "Brandon got Ashara pregnant" inferences are being made? When I read that part in Selmy's POV, I was pretty sure he was talking about Ned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saracen Posted July 17, 2011 Share Posted July 17, 2011 Wait I'm really confused, can someone explain to me how all these "Brandon got Ashara pregnant" inferences are being made? When I read that part in Selmy's POV, I was pretty sure he was talking about Ned.They think Ned couldn't do something of that dishonor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cteresa Posted July 17, 2011 Share Posted July 17, 2011 Wait I'm really confused, can someone explain to me how all these "Brandon got Ashara pregnant" inferences are being made? When I read that part in Selmy's POV, I was pretty sure he was talking about Ned.It´s not just from that part. It´s from Barbrey´s comments to Theon, which indicates than Brandon was womanizing and had little scruples about having an affair with a virgin lady of good birth without meaning to marry then. And then on Selmy´s PoV he thinks "Stark" ( when both Starks were at the tourney and the eldest son would likely be the one referred to just as Stark, like say, Miss Bennett or Miss Dashwood is always and only the oldest daughter). And because we had been wondering right from the start how unlikely it was for stuffed shirt Ned to have gotten a lady of good birth pregnant and abandoned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villager Posted July 17, 2011 Share Posted July 17, 2011 Wait I'm really confused, can someone explain to me how all these "Brandon got Ashara pregnant" inferences are being made? When I read that part in Selmy's POV, I was pretty sure he was talking about Ned.Well, the logic seems to work like this:Rhaegar is totally awesome-> Brandon threatened to kill Rhaegar-> Brandon must then be a enormous douche because only a douche threatens Rhaegar-> Since he's a douche, he must have deflowered Ashara-> Because only total douches like Brandon deflowers highborn maidensAt least that's the only line of reasoning I can conceive of that can produce such a belief. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claireducky Posted July 17, 2011 Share Posted July 17, 2011 Wait I'm really confused, can someone explain to me how all these "Brandon got Ashara pregnant" inferences are being made? When I read that part in Selmy's POV, I was pretty sure he was talking about Ned.Barristan defended Ned Stark's honor in a passage not long before the passage about Ashara. In that one not only does he defend Ned, he uses his full name. In GoT, we see Barristan and Ned interact in a friendly and respectful manner.Barristan loved Ashara, and only refers to the one who soiled her as "Stark". With the information from Lady Dustin about Brandon being a player, it seems possible/likely that Brandon was the one who seduced Ashara. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldfeet Posted July 17, 2011 Share Posted July 17, 2011 has anyone mentioned this yet? we know that winter has started (the white raven in Pycelle's chambers) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Damian Posted July 17, 2011 Share Posted July 17, 2011 Varys is dishonest. He seems to have always known that the Lannister/Baratheon princes and princess were illigit. He could have put an end to Cersie, Jaime and Tywin by revealing to Robert but arranged it through Jon Arryn who involved Stannis. He tweaked things that have brought death to many good and innocent people. I also think Littlefinger is playing in with Varys to some extent but is yet to be revealed. Mostly the tragedies have come at the expense of the Starks, their allies, Lannisters and common folk. Varys is as I expected partially, a Targaryen supporter of restoration because Robert was a Userper despite winning by right of conquest, he just did not fully extinguish the Targaryen line. Varys and his faction has pretty much run out of time so they cannot wait any longer to execute their game plan- the epiloge at the end of ADWD, pulling what they did was bold to say the least. They want their AEGON to marry DANY but she seems so mired down in the East and with the Kingdome seemingly ripe for the picking they have run out of time - hence operation mummers dragon is about to commence. They need Dany to marry Aegon to make sure their offspring is Targaryen blood because I am convinced Aegon/young griff is not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunworshipper Posted July 17, 2011 Share Posted July 17, 2011 We know that Osha's idea of taking someone to safety is to take them to a cannibal infested island!But unicorns! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfbird Posted July 17, 2011 Share Posted July 17, 2011 We know that Osha's idea of taking someone to safety is to take them to a cannibal infested island!I think someone mentioned that they got shipwrecked?I think it would be difficult to find someone willing to sail you to Skaagos. I guessing they stowed away on a ship to Braavos or something and it crashed against Skaagos in a storm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smidget25 Posted July 17, 2011 Share Posted July 17, 2011 We know Loras was maimed. (Alas poor Grand Tyrell Conspiracy Theory, I knew him well)If he was maimed, like Cersei thought in AFFC, then why aren't the septas allowed to mention him? Seemed even more suspicious to me, like they were hiding a new development from her. Maybe he is fine (TYRELL CONSPIRACY!) or he died and he's been resurrected?! :shocked: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dornish Pasties Posted July 17, 2011 Share Posted July 17, 2011 We know that kingsguard have been dispatched to guard the king's mistresses and bastards in the past, from Barristan's chapters. Perhaps giving more information for 3 of the KG being at the Tower of Joy, and another hint toward R+L=J. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lyndsica Posted July 17, 2011 Share Posted July 17, 2011 We know that Ashara was somehow 'dishonored' by a Stark (presumably leading to her pregnancy), and that said stark must have been one of the Stark son's, since Rikard was too old for Barristan to think of him as a 'boy'.We know that Brandon Stark, despite Ned's missing him, was a jerk and possibly a rapist. Ned's father may not have been the most honorable stark in history, either. I was thinking it was - maybe - Benjen, leading to him taking the black? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lyndsica Posted July 17, 2011 Share Posted July 17, 2011 This reminds me... I suck at this kind of thing, but has it ever been proven that Benjen couldn't be Jon's father? B+A=J? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taisie22 Posted July 17, 2011 Share Posted July 17, 2011 I think it's almost certain that Lightbringer was a dragon and not a sword and that Ahzor Ahai is going to use a dragon to fight back the darkness. I think that someone, I can't remember who off hand,refers to dragons as being like swords. And we keep seeing that dragons are like fire made flesh. We also know that dragons don't obey their masters just because so I can see the Nissa Nissa story evolving from the fact that the original AA's wife was eaten by his dragon or feed to it.We know that all of the Melisandre was originally a slave, or a slave owner, I'm betting on slave though. We also know that GRRM has a wacked out since of joke set up. Everybody is talking about the "Dwarf's Penny" and now there is a character with a crush on him that's a dwarf named Penny.Also we know that the Lannister boys have a deep seated need to fixate on one phrase. "Where do whores go?" is the new "She's been fucking Lancel and Osmond Kettleblack and Moonboy for all I know".As I was reading I felt there was something about the name Penny that I should be remembering. Thank you - now I get it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Steel Posted July 17, 2011 Share Posted July 17, 2011 This reminds me... I suck at this kind of thing, but has it ever been proven that Benjen couldn't be Jon's father? B+A=J?It's nearly impossible for Benjen to be Jon's father since Benjen was at Winterfell whenever Jon was conceived. There must always be a Stark at Winterfell.As for Ashara, it's equally unlikely that she's Jon's mother because she was likely impregnated at the tourny of Harrenhal while Jon was likely conceived a few months into Robert's Rebellion.If Ned was the father of Jon, then Jon's mother would have to be somewhere in the vicinity of the Vale in order to fit the timeline. So the Wylla the fisherwomen is a possibility.But Rhaegar + Lyanna still has the preponderance of evidence, especially with the additional evidence in ADWD such as Ned praying that Jon and Robb be as close as brothers and the mounting evidence that Lyanna was the Laughing Knight. The dragon must have 3 heads, and Elia was incapable of producing a third child so Rhaegar had to go elsewhere and he loved Lyanna. Jon's smoking blood also suggests that he has dragon blood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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