[ADWD Spoilers] Speculation About the Winds of Winter

[A Redeemed Hound]

Once you have seen the light, everything falls into place and it all becomes crystalclear.

[hero on the other side]

Oh, absolutely, and I'm not religious either. It's such a big archetype in myth and in fantasy fiction. Common enough to be a cliche, but it can work anyway if done well.

Hmm, if Jon is a Targ, which seems likely, and then is "brought back" to save the realm at it's time of need then he shares a lot in common with Arthur Pendragon! In his dream he was wearing black ice armor (I think) and had a flaming sword defending the wall (from spider-like wights and people he felt guilty over). Could it be he ends up inside Drogon? Whose egg was once made of stone!

[hero on the other side]

Jaime and/or Brienne don't seem to be particularly tied down. Aeron is in the general vicinity as well, and might be on the run from the Islands.

And there is Jaime's dream he had about him and Brienne with the flaming swords, only his went out, in the watery cave beneath the Rock. Which he had while he had his head on a weirwood stumpand we know Bloodraven is hooked into all the weirwoods. Plus we've seen Bran try and interact with people via the weirwoods. So maybe Bloodraven wanted Jaime to save "the beauty", or knew that, Brienne would be needed somewhere down the line. Later Jaime visited the place where Bloodraven's mother was from (Raventree, I think)and much and more was made about the huge amount of ravens that flocked around the large weirwood there.

Hey, maybe Jaime IS a Targ and Bloodraven is watching over his kinfolk :tantrum:

[Elundin]

LOL. So long as GRRM is looking at the same light. Do you think it's even possible for this series to be done in 7 books then if everyone doesn't complete what they "must" do until the end of WoW? I want it to end in 7 so I am hoping some really big plotlines pan out in the middle of the next book.

If books 6 and 7 consists of 2k pages each and the description of feasts, longhalls and entourages is kept to a minimum, then yes. Look at WoW as the next turn of this gigantic Risk game: in ADwD he sets his figurines into positions that will allow them to get to their final positions by the end of WoW. Winter is here, so this means that he definitely needs to have his characters in check to deal with it. Coming Spring should be either them winning the showdown, or having won it and now living fruitful lives (but where would the fun be in that?).

Having said that, I must say that the only reason I'm insanely speculating these past few days with this definite attitude is that it'll keep me sane for the next few years till the actual books comes out. With the bearded guy's pace, we'd be lucky if we'd get a book in anything shorter than 3 years minimum. So yes, the way I see it, and the way I have posted it so far, is how it'll happen- for me.

[Sasha Steelsong]

So I had this whole response typed out as to why I think the next book will arrive sometime in late 2014/early 2015 but the computer ate it so bear with me as I attempt to recreate. If one assumes that they are going to try and do one season a year and not pull a Sopranos by going away for like a year and a half the pressure on GRRM is not TWOW but Book 7 (the current potential title escapes me). The scripts for season 2 have to be nearly done with and production on the episodes would have to start soon (if it hasn't already) if the show is working towards season 2 starting in April like season 1 did. Based on the assumptions of a yearly April release and two seasons for ASOS the timeline is as follows:

Season 2 (ACOK): Written 2011; Filmed 2011/2012

Season 3 (ASOS 1): Written 2012; Filmed 2012/2013

Season 4 (ASOS 2): Written 2013; Filmed 2013/2014

Season 5 (AFFC/ADWD 1): Written 2014; Filmed 2014/2015

Season 6 (AFFC/ADWD 2): Written 2015; Filmed 2015/2016

Season 7 (TWOW): Written 2016; Filmed 2016/2017

Season 8 (Book 7): Written 2017; Filmed 2017/2018

TWOW will have to be done at least a year before the script for the show is written if not more, so late 2014/early 2015 at the latest. This is not because it takes that long to adapt the script but because it is entirely unrealistic to think that GRRM will write Book 7 in 18 months for it to be ready to be adapted in 2017. GRRM does not actually have until the series catches up to release the next book but much less time. Given how he was able to churn out the first few novels, provided he really has worked past his writer's block, the next book would need to be done in about three years to keep the t.v. series on track.

As for plot predictions:

-Jon doesn't die but is basically in a coma for a bit and then comes back to his live and never dead body. I think he will be healed more like Victarion v.s. UnCat.

-Dany goes on her own journey which takes her to Vaes Dothrak and maybe Valleria's ruins – while she is gone her various followers hash out their difference and shuffle deck chairs till she returns with a Kalisar less it's Kal. She and her fleet leave for Westeros ¾ of the way into the book and don't show up till the next one.

-Rickon is found and now rides a unicorn

-As for the rest who knows…I'd like Arya to go to Dany just cause Dany needs to start getting an attitude adjustment towards the Westerosi lords and I feel like the Starks are under-represented in people looking for Dany…but I acknowledge that is a bit crackpot. Would also like Sansa to figure out a way to make herself Aegon's queen just so she can take down Cersei but again I'm putting that up as crackpot

[Sasha Steelsong]

Double post...sorry

[hero on the other side]

My guess for The Prologue...

this from Brewmaster :

"prologues have served to foreshadow significant factors in the story.

Prologue 1 - North of Wall

Prologue 2 - Dragonstone

Prologue 3 - North of Wall

Prologue 4 - Citadel

Prologue 5 - North of Wall"

And this from Darth Dragonstone:

"I think the every other prologue pattern will continue and this one will not be North of the Wall.

The other two involve maesters. If we are going to follow an implicit numbers/patterns theory, then the prologue for Winds of Winter will involve a maester. If so, we may see Qyburn making a fateful exit from the story, perhaps in a way that bodes ill for Robert Strong, Cersei or Tommen"

Leads to this from me:

It will be the drunken Maester Harmune from Eastwatch and it will be him recounting/witnessing the bad things happening at Hardhome. And maybe, just maybe he and a few other brothers escaping via ship to end up on Skagos. Where Davos will be with Rickon, Osha, Shaggydog and cannibals mounted on unicorns (i.e. woolly rhinoceros -Coelodonta antiquitatis- is an extinct species of rhinoceros native to the northern steppes of Eurasia)

Flag planted!

[Ten Steps]

Mel gives Jon the kiss of life

Jon kills his betrayers and becomes heartless

Stannis vs Boltons are in a stalemate (because Ramsay still looks for his bride and theon yet I doubt they would have escaped had a battle occured)

Moreover the Bolton side are stuck in-fighting seeing as how they said something about Mors Umber was the one to help save Theon and Jeyne. (Can't really recall, Though my doubt is if I got the two Umbers confused with one another)

Arya almost completes her training but then is discovered to have been hiding needle but at her point in training the faceless men believe she know too much and tell her that they can't let her go anymore but she escapes anyway using what Syrio taught her. (Damn it Syrio 5 books and I still miss him)

Sansa will learn lots from LF

Bran uses his newfound weirwood powers to talk to Jon giving him back his compassion

The prophecy about the dragon with three heads will come into fruition with the three heads actually being, Melissandre, Thoros, and Moqorro.

[Ten Steps]

My guess for The Prologue...

this from Brewmaster :

"prologues have served to foreshadow significant factors in the story.

Prologue 1 - North of Wall

Prologue 2 - Dragonstone

Prologue 3 - North of Wall

Prologue 4 - Citadel

Prologue 5 - North of Wall"

And this from Darth Dragonstone:

"I think the every other prologue pattern will continue and this one will not be North of the Wall.

The other two involve maesters. If we are going to follow an implicit numbers/patterns theory, then the prologue for Winds of Winter will involve a maester. If so, we may see Qyburn making a fateful exit from the story, perhaps in a way that bodes ill for Robert Strong, Cersei or Tommen"

Leads to this from me:

It will be the drunken Maester Harmune from Eastwatch and it will be him recounting/witnessing the bad things happening at Hardhome. And maybe, just maybe he and a few other brothers escaping via ship to end up on Skagos. Where Davos will be with Rickon, Osha, Shaggydog and cannibals mounted on unicorns (i.e. woolly rhinoceros -Coelodonta antiquitatis- is an extinct species of rhinoceros native to the northern steppes of Eurasia)

Flag planted!

Ooh yeah the Maester thing but couldn't it also be the Maester that is now traveling to reach Dany? I mean Pate was at the end of aFfC shown to be apparently still alive right so I don't think it means death.

[kg1982]

I think Dany and her freedmen end up having to take the much heard about demon road through Valariya.

[hero on the other side]

Ooh yeah the Maester thing but couldn't it also be the Maester that is now traveling to reach Dany? I mean Pate was at the end of aFfC shown to be apparently still alive right so I don't think it means death.

You mean Archmaester Marwyn, on the road to see Dany (the city of monsters?) yeah this would be my second bet. He could tell more of what the Citadel has been up to with their whole "world without magic agenda" and give some backstory about Mirri Maz Duur. And give GRRM a another view into what is going down in Essos. My third would be Qyburn, but he'd probably still be in King's Landing. Plus whomever it is they are gonna die.

[Whatever]

Jon dies, gets rezzed by Melisandre, and then he can go two ways: either keep his claim as Lord Commander and prepare the showdown with the Others in his own pace, or, free of his oath by his death (which is a genious move to be honest, hats off to the bearded man)

it WAS a brilliant move, before half of the fandom guessed it - bloody internet! ;)

[Ygritte]

Ooh yeah the Maester thing but couldn't it also be the Maester that is now traveling to reach Dany? I mean Pate was at the end of aFfC shown to be apparently still alive right so I don't think it means death.

Pate's dead. Jaqen H'ghar is disguised as him.

[Elundin]

it WAS a brilliant move, before half of the fandom guessed it - bloody internet! ;)

We're too far in now. He's given too many clues as to where the story is going. He has trained his fans too well, can't expect anything to be a surprise anymore, really. However the story goes from now on, it will have been posted in some post somewhere by someone. I just hope its my version of things and I get mentioned in the books as some cupbearer that dies a horrible death or something. Wouldn't that be supercool? :huh:

[jon rr stark]

Stannis' fate depends on many things. It'll probably be the last thing decided, since tons of plotlines need to occur before a reasonable outcome arises for him. If Aegon sits the Iron Throne, Stannis will bend the knee, since Aegon's claim is better, and Stannis is lawful neutral.

Stannis is the only rightful heir to the throne with his daughter being second in line. The Targs reign has ended. Conquest is the only thing which would give them the throne, which leaves them in the same place as anyone else. That would be the beginning of a new dynasty. Stannis will kneel to noone except perhaps Jon whoeverheis

[Sivin]

It wouldn't be a Martin book if they didn't happen.

She'll do that by the end of the book, and her forces will be exactly as you describe. She will be a Deus Ex Machina, to save Westeros from the Others. Her surfice will be at the Wall, having her dragons spit fire on the Zombies, killing human forces and Zombies alike. Should she survive, she will rule with her husband/nephew whatever is left of the world.

Should happen, definitely, near the end of the book.

Should the world as we know it not fall apart, we know exactly how this will happen: she marries the Young Falcon and makes her claim. Stannis will allow her to get Winterfell. Tyrion has died a death though, which is sad, but true.

Rickon will be returned to White Harbor and used as a chyvasse piece by Lord Pie, and not to Winterfell.

There is no time for her to complete her training, if Martin wants her to be any part of the remaining story. Something will trigger her to drop her training. What I am not certain of is whether the FM will approve or will have assassins to track her down and murder her for her defiance. If she leaves on good terms, it'll be to assassinate Cersei for her debts to the Iron Bank.

From her new base in Casterly Rock though. She will definitely find herself in a position of power, it can happen no other way. This will allow things to evolve into complete chaos around King's Landing powerbase, so that Aegon can rise and shine.

Aegon has been trained to become a benevolent ruler all his life. His taking over the army to storm Storms End is his chance to indeed prove his worth to anyone, without a doubt. So, even if anyone dares to question his claim as a Targaryen, he may still conquer King's Landing by the right of conquest. Martin would not bother creating this depthful character just to kill him a few chapters later (LOL). The end of WOW will have him sitting the Iron Throne, because things need to settle down in Kings Landing so that there's time to send forces up to the Wall for the ultimate showdown with the Zombies.

Stannis' fate depends on many things. It'll probably be the last thing decided, since tons of plotlines need to occur before a reasonable outcome arises for him. If Aegon sits the Iron Throne, Stannis will bend the knee, since Aegon's claim is better, and Stannis is lawful neutral. If Sansa returns to Winterfell and Littlefinger decides to have her play Queen of the North, Stannis will need to fight her. He will also need to get rid of Euron. The Iron Thronel, for Stannis, is the entire 7K, so anything less will not be acceptable. All this, provided Ramsay was lying (90% he was) and he's still alive.

Zombiecate will spend her days killing Lannisters, Freys and Boltons, but mainly Freys, till she finds out her kids are alive. Then she will either die a real death, or she will hurry back to Winterfell to be with her kids- which is all she ever wanted anyway.

Jamie and Brienne will go to the Vale, and not to Zombiecate. There, Brienne will find Sansa and stick with her to honor her oath, and Jamie will hurry back to Kings Landing to re-assume his role as the Kingsguard. He certainly cannot have an important role in the storyline, not after having turned lawful neutral, anymore. I see him turning all Selmy if anything. She may still have room for a twist in her story, but I'm not sure what will happen there.

Jon dies, gets rezzed by Melisandre, and then he can go two ways: either keep his claim as Lord Commander and prepare the showdown with the Others in his own pace, or, free of his oath by his death (which is a genious move to be honest, hats off to the bearded man) hurry down to Winterfell and get his family stuff sorted. Robb's letter is either giving him Winterfell (Robb was thinking his male siblings dead, Arya gone and Sansa married to the Imp), or explaining his lineage to him, OR, explaining his lineage to him which would somehow allow him to have a true claim on Winterfell, thus, Jon NOT being a bastard. In which case, Sansa remains satisfied with the Vale. IF he gets Winterfell, he gathers the wildlings around him, marries Val, houses Melisandre as a consultant (without taking over her faith though), and prepares for the Zombie invasion.

Once you have seen the light, everything falls into place and it all becomes crystalclear.

I hate to be this guy... But you forgot Theon... :leaving:

[Beems]

"I also wonder if there will be a dragon-on-dragon rumble with Victarion's two horn-controlled dragons versus Drogon. Dany getting home with just one dragon would be interesting."

[Kingslayer]

Stannis is the only rightful heir to the throne with his daughter being second in line. The Targs reign has ended. Conquest is the only thing which would give them the throne

So Stannis lost the right to the throne when he got stomped and 80% of Westeros acclaimed Joffrey/Tommen.

Some people seem really confused about this whole "right of conquest" thing.

[Marc Mielke]

Lady Stoneheart will kill Walder Frey but then die. It is known.

[Bugger that]

Ok, I'm at loss with all the acronyms, can someone explain to me what/who PWWP is?