[ADWD Spoilers] Speculation About the Winds of Winter

[No One Truly]

I've seen this idea casually thrown off as fact here and in many other threads and I just don't understand the logic behind it.

People have mentioned that Dany will get control of a dothraki Khalassar in TWOW, but you are the first person I've heard explain that she does it because of Drogon.

That said, I still don't see how anyone can think that she has control of Drogon. The impression I got was that Drogon is more like a cat than a dog. He won't hurt you and will let you pick him up (or he will pick you up in this case) if he is around, but will not come when called or follow any commands you give him. He will just fly off and do his own thing. From what I see Dany is in a very bad situation at the end of ADWD. if the dothraki show up at Meereen it will be as raiders, and she will be their prisoner.

That was just sort of the way that, in my head, I justified the end of Dany's arc in ADWD. From her POV, it seems clear to me that she has finally accepted that she must follow Quaithe's advice. She interprets the "back" part of "to go forward, you must go back" as going back to the Dothraki. It was with the Dothraki that Dany was born as a queen. So she shows up on the Dothraki doorsteps riding her dragon. She doesn't completely control Drogon - I think cat is a good metaphor. But while cats are fickle, they're still loyal to their owners. So she goes back to recruit the former members of Drogo's khalasar. The dragon will represent strength to some, and the only way I can see her getting them to follow a woman is if she convinces them that Drogon is the Stallion that mounts the world, since Dothraki put so much in prophecy. I am pretty sure she is going to decimate at least one of the remaining khalasars, but the one she runs into at the end of ADWD will probably end up hers.

[Free Northman]

I wish people would stop going off on tangents about Jon being Azor Ahai and Daeny being the Prince who was promised or vice versa.

In the so spake Martin collection there is a quote where George clearly states that the two prophecies talk about the same person.

There is no seperation between the two. Azor Ahai IS the Prince who was Promised.

And both are Jon.

[TippsBlackandWhite]

Remember this book was going to be a Time for Wolves, but that was changed because GRRM thought the title was too spoilery (about the resurgence in importance of the Starks).

Really? I don't know that. Interesting. I have to say I do like "The Winds of Winter" better though.

So I am expecting plenty of Arya, Bran, Sansa and unJon.

I sincerely hope so considering there's been a major lack of them all - excluding Jon.

[Free Northman]

Really? I don't know that. Interesting. I have to say I do like "The Winds of Winter" better though.

I sincerely hope so considering there's been a major lack of them all - excluding Jon.

Actually, the last book was originally titled A Time for Wolves. The second last book was always planned to be the Winds of Winter.

So from that I take my solace that in the end, the Starks will prevail. Personally, I much preferred the title Time for Wolves to a Dream of Spring.

It sounds too much like a Memory of Light, and in my view any resemblance between Martin's masterpiece and the soap opera that is WoT should be avoided at all costs.

[Sega AM2]

I wish people would stop going off on tangents about Jon being Azor Ahai and Daeny being the Prince who was promised or vice versa.

In the so spake Martin collection there is a quote where George clearly states that the two prophecies talk about the same person.

There is no seperation between the two. Azor Ahai IS the Prince who was Promised.

And both are Jon.

http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Entry/Comic_Con_San_Diego_CA_July_20_232/

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/52020-an-apology-for-a-lie-about-the-series/

That report of GRRM confirming that AA = PTWP, turned out to be not exactly true.

[Tall Tyrion Lannister!]

Barriston-Goes around being badass

Arya, is sent to westeros on some sort of mission, abandons her pm stuff and joins the north

Sansa-Marries Harry

Davos, goes to skagos and gets Rickon, Helps raise the north's banners

Stannis-Most of his stuff will be battle of winterfell

Theon- on a trip with Asha to claim his throne.

Mel-finally see that Jon is AA, revives him

Jon- goes around being AA

Dany- finally sets out for Westeros

Cersei- is freed

Margaery- becomes the queen of westeros.

Aegon- goes around getting Dornes support, at the end of the book he will be setting for kings landing

LF finds out that Aergon is there so he sets out to be his hand.

Tyrion leads the second sons after surviving the battle of merren

Victorian- tries to summon the Dragons, dies in the process cause the horn wasn't a dragon taming horn.

Bran- learns that the COF/3EC are up to no good and escapes, Jojen dies in the process though.

Jaime- I think he is sent to UnCat but somehow gets out of it.

Not sure what happens to UnCat, I just thought about Thoros or some other BWB killing her and returning the BWBG to what they originally were, but unless she kills all freys in the next book then it would seem pointless to just have her lead them a little bit and then die.

General Stuff

Wall either falls down or the others are starting to come by the end of the book.

[MinotaurWarrior]

[crackpot]

Manderly, who betrayed the Freys and Boltons, leads Stannis into Wintefel through the front gates. After securing the support of the other Northern Lords, they all turn on the Boltons. Wouldn't be the first time Manderly lied about killing Stannis's men.

The Dothraki try to capture Dany. Drogo burns them. Dany mounts Drogo, and leads her new Khalasar to Vaes Dothrak, to confront the Dosh Khaleen, because she thinks her city is safe.

Victarion crushes the Volantene fleet, "frees" the slaves who row the boats, and leads his men ashore to battle the Yunkish. Selmy charges in boldly, though his forces are outmatched. It seems like all is lost, when Selmy notices Brown Ben's forces are attacking the Yunkish. The Windblown, promised Pentos, turn their cloaks as well, and soon all the other sellswords, desiring life above death, join in on the betraying. Selmy and the Shavepate are left to rule Meereen and deal with Victarion. They prove vastly more capable than Dany, and also expand back into Yunkai and Astapor. New Ghis remains a thorn in their side.

Ghost wanders for a time, trying to survive as a silent wolf. He's basically lost for a while, watching from the shadows as the Watch, and eventually the wall, crumble all around him.

Davos finds that its not so easy to retrieve Rickon from Skagos, as Rickon has become a local chieftain, and doesn't want to leave. Eventually, he convinces the Skagosi and their unicorn cavalry to follow Rickon back to Wintefell, where the young boy must reclaim his father's seat.

Cersei wins her trial, with Robert Strong as her champion. Margery does not win her trial by combat. Cersei becomes regent, the Tyrells (who were among the Targ loyalists) defect to support Aegon. Things do not go well for the Crownlands or the west.

Doran is not convinced that Aegon is a true Targ. He swears his allegiance, but somehow, his armies never show up.

Samwell learns a bunch of critical secrets in Oldtown, and kills Jaqen H'Gar (he is Sam the Slayer).

Dany convinces the Dosh Khaleen to just shut up and do as she says, and leads all the Dothraki. "You mount horses. I mount a dragon. Drogo mounts the world." She marches them back to Meereen, where she finds out much to her surprise that her peace was a sham and her husband an assassin. She realizes then, "I am Aegon the Conqueror Reborn. By toppling the Great Masters I freed untold numbers, but my rule did them no benefit. I am no Queen to sit idly upon a throne." She burns Victarion for being presumptuous, takes his ships, seizes New Ghis, takes Pentos for the Tattered Prince (possibly killing Illyrio in the process), and heads towards Westeros, leaving select followers behind to rule her holdings in her stead. She is Daenerys Targaryen, Empress of Westeros and Essos, Khaleesi of the Great Grass Sea, Queen of Slaver's Bay, Shepard of the Lhazareen, Master of Pentos, master of the Iron Throne.

The Others invade, pouring down south as fast as they can. The northern castles, Winterfel included, stand strong, but the villages, holdfasts, and minor castles all fall.

Littlefinger was not expecting the zombie apocalypse. Jaime and Brienne find Sansa, and discover that she's mostly safe. However, they do not take kindly to LF's feelings for Sansa. Everyone in the Vale runs to their castles.

Nymeria sees the zombie invasion, and Arya snaps out of being no-one. So she just leaves. Whether the Faceless Men are Ok with this or not matters very little, she still makes her way west.

Jhlabar Xho comes to the forefront, telling Dany that part of the key to defeating the Others lies in the Summer Islands, his lost kingdom.

[/crackpot]

[Free Northman]

http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Entry/Comic_Con_San_Diego_CA_July_20_232/

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/52020-an-apology-for-a-lie-about-the-series/

That report of GRRM confirming that AA = PTWP, turned out to be not exactly true.

All I can say is WOW.

That certainly throws a cat amongst the pigeons..

[Sand Snake No. 9]

Freys die.

Davos, Val, Wylla Manderly, Wyman Manderly, Ghost, Bloodraven, Missandei, Ser Baristan and Dolorous Ed continue to be awesome.

Sansa has a really bad hair day, uses her hairnet, and accidently poisons all of her enemies in the Vale, including Littlefinger. Thereafter, she swears off men, power and status, hooks up with Mya, and spends the remainder of her life cleaning up after mules.

Ramsay Bolton dies a horrible death. At last.

Stannis dies. Melisandre dies. Selyse dies (and not a moment too soon). These tree burning bitches can't be allowed near the godswood at Winterfell.

There's no need for a 1000 Lord Commander of the Nights Watch because there's no more Nights Watch.

Jon is mostly dead and completely frozen. Meanwhile, he wargs into Ghost, Ghost goes to Winterfell and discovers whatever the hell it is that Jon supposed to discover in the crypts. Maybe Ghost/Jon eats a Frey or a Bolton that got left behind. Later Bran does the 3 Eyed Crow trick and wakes an enlightened Jon from his coma. Jon fulfills his destiny.

The following questions remain unanswered: which Stark did what to Ashara Dayne, the exact nature of Rhaegar's relationship with Lyanna, why three knights of the Kingsguard were at the Tower of Joy, what Ned promised Lyanna, whether R + L = J, or whether the PWWP and AAR are the same person.

Somehow Oathkeeper is transformed into Lightbringer. Hell, the sword is already red.

Storm's End falls because all its protective magic was destroyed when Mel had the godswood burned. YG/Aegon's approval rating skyrockets. The people of King's Landing celebrate Yi Ti New Year's with fireworks and cloth dragons.

Saladhor Saan and Aurane Waters show up with their fleets to join YG/Aegon. He can pay cash.

We learn that the Grandmaesters are all dragon-killing, magic-hating douches, and everything is their fault, except the stuff that's Littlefinger's fault.

In Essos, Daenerys is still dithering, Tyrion is still whining, Victarion is still sailing, the dragons are still flying, and Quaithe is still cryptic. Lots of people inside and outside Meeren die and everything smells bad.

Penny gives up jousting and takes up pole dancing. The tips are better.

In Braavos, Arya gets a new face; she looks like Selena Gomez. She also has a new pet cat. With kitty's help, Arya kills a few more people.

Meanwhile, back in Westeros, Nymeria and her crew wreak havoc on the Riverlands. They take on the convoy escorting Edmure Tully and Jeyne Westerling west. Edmure and Jeyne get away, Sybell Westerling gets eaten. Karmic balance is restored.

Ser Loras shows up and we see how messed up he really is. Margaery faints. Tommen cries.

After Robert Strong successfully defends her in the trial by combat, the Tyrells ship Cersei's ass back to Casterly Rock. We get to see the Rock through her batshit crazy POV.

The Others make their move.

Even more Freys die.

[Free Northman]

Freys die.

Davos, Val, Wylla Manderly, Wyman Manderly, Ghost, Bloodraven, Missandei, Ser Baristan and Dolorous Ed continue to be awesome.

Sansa has a really bad hair day, uses her hairnet, and accidently poisons all of her enemies in the Vale, including Littlefinger. Thereafter, she swears off men, power and status, hooks up with Mya, and spends the remainder of her life cleaning up after mules.

Ramsay Bolton dies a horrible death. At last.

Stannis dies. Melisandre dies. Selyse dies (and not a moment too soon). These tree burning bitches can't be allowed near the godswood at Winterfell.

There's no need for a 1000 Lord Commander of the Nights Watch because there's no more Nights Watch.

Jon is mostly dead and completely frozen. Meanwhile, he wargs into Ghost, Ghost goes to Winterfell and discovers whatever the hell it is that Jon supposed to discover in the crypts. Maybe Ghost/Jon eats a Frey or a Bolton that got left behind. Later Bran does the 3 Eyed Crow trick and wakes an enlightened Jon from his coma. Jon fulfills his destiny.

The following questions remain unanswered: which Stark did what to Ashara Dayne, the exact nature of Rhaegar's relationship with Lyanna, why three knights of the Kingsguard were at the Tower of Joy, what Ned promised Lyanna, whether R + L = J, or whether the PWWP and AAR are the same person.

Somehow Oathkeeper is transformed into Lightbringer. Hell, the sword is already red.

Storm's End falls because all its protective magic was destroyed when Mel had the godswood burned. YG/Aegon's approval rating skyrockets. The people of King's Landing celebrate Yi Ti New Year's with fireworks and cloth dragons.

Saladhor Saan and Aurane Waters show up with their fleets to join YG/Aegon. He can pay cash.

We learn that the Grandmaesters are all dragon-killing, magic-hating douches, and everything is their fault, except the stuff that's Littlefinger's fault.

In Essos, Daenerys is still dithering, Tyrion is still whining, Victarion is still sailing, the dragons are still flying, and Quaithe is still cryptic. Lots of people inside and outside Meeren die and everything smells bad.

Penny gives up jousting and takes up pole dancing. The tips are better.

In Braavos, Arya gets a new face; she looks like Selena Gomez. She also has a new pet cat. With kitty's help, Arya kills a few more people.

Meanwhile, back in Westeros, Nymeria and her crew wreak havoc on the Riverlands. They take on the convoy escorting Edmure Tully and Jeyne Westerling west. Edmure and Jeyne get away, Sybell Westerling gets eaten. Karmic balance is restored.

Ser Loras shows up and we see how messed up he really is. Margaery faints. Tommen cries.

After Robert Strong successfully defends her in the trial by combat, the Tyrells ship Cersei's ass back to Casterly Rock. We get to see the Rock through her batshit crazy POV.

The Others make their move.

Even more Freys die.

I like.

[nara]

Somehow Oathkeeper is transformed into Lightbringer. Hell, the sword is already red.

Perhaps Jaime plunges it into Cersei's (Nissa Nissa - reborn)heart...

[Brucolac]

"After Robert Strong successfully defends her in the trial by combat...."

I see the trial as being the end of Cersei or a schism from the church giving her yet another enemy she created for herself. Robert Strong/Gregor is going to lose to Sandor, who will be representing the curch in this match.

I didn't think Sandor was dead after reading FOC since the guy who says he buried him dodged the question when asked directly if he was dead and said "He is at rest" and then goes on to speak of his own death and being reborn a man of god on the next page. That sequence was only to explain why a man who was devoid of faith such as Sandor reappears as a champion of it. Anyway, you should expect Gregor to go down for good in the next book by the hands of Sandor.

[darrylzero]

"After Robert Strong successfully defends her in the trial by combat...."

I see the trial as being the end of Cersei or a schism from the church giving her yet another enemy she created for herself. Robert Strong/Gregor is going to lose to Sandor, who will be representing the curch in this match.

I didn't think Sandor was dead after reading FOC since the guy who says he buried him dodged the question when asked directly if he was dead and said "He is at rest" and then goes on to speak of his own death and being reborn a man of god on the next page. That sequence was only to explain why a man who was devoid of faith such as Sandor reappears as a champion of it. Anyway, you should expect Gregor to go down for good in the next book by the hands of Sandor.

I love the imagery of Sandor killing Robert Strong, and I think the odds are good that it will happen, but I have a hard time seeing how the Faith will tap that resource quickly enough in order for him to be their champion. Here's how I see it going down:

Robert Strong mops the floor with Lancel in Cersei's trial, and proceeds to help Cersei terrorize King's Landing. In her vendetta against the Faith, she will kill many sparrows and possibly the High Septon. It is also possible that she will lose control of Strong (whether or not Qyburn has), and life in King's Landing will basically be a nightmare. Then, word gets to Sandor and he puts an end to it, but not until book 7.

I like the suggestion of Jon visiting Winterfell as Ghost. I know you're not supposed to eat human meat in beast mode, but those warging rules seem a little stuffy to me. I hope he eats Ramsay's heart right out, after a long hunt of course. Imagine, Ramsay running away from Winterfell naked -- with snow falling, I'm sure -- hearing the howling of wolves chasing after him... Wait, he wouldn't hear anything, would he? Not with Ghost chasing him. He'd know there was a wolf, but where were the howls? How come he couldn't hear anything?

Too dark for Jon, probably, but that would be one satisfying piece of grizzly symmetry.

[Sand Snake No. 9]

whoopsie!

[Lord Robert]

Perhaps Jaime plunges it into Cersei's (Nissa Nissa - reborn)heart...

This not just wishful thinking? Jaime is deffo not AA.

[the Scorpion Knight]

In my eyes in tWoW we weil see cersei as a helpless spectator of the madness hapening in KL,

the rise of the high septon as regent with the help of Euron and Qyburn.

and the cliffhanger might be them sending an army of fanatics&undead againt the vale with sansa seeing it in warg-o-vision

[Sand Snake No. 9]

Perhaps Jaime plunges it into Cersei's (Nissa Nissa - reborn)heart...

My money is on Brienne skewering Jaime for the full Nissa Nissa effect, because she luuuuuuurves him. And I really think the girl needs a flaming sword.

I like the suggestion of Jon visiting Winterfell as Ghost. I know you're not supposed to eat human meat in beast mode, but those warging rules seem a little stuffy to me. I hope he eats Ramsay's heart right out, after a long hunt of course. Imagine, Ramsay running away from Winterfell naked -- with snow falling, I'm sure -- hearing the howling of wolves chasing after him... Wait, he wouldn't hear anything, would he? Not with Ghost chasing him. He'd know there was a wolf, but where were the howls? How come he couldn't hear anything?

Too dark for Jon, probably, but that would be one satisfying piece of grizzly symmetry.

I hope to hell someone hunts Ramsay.

After I typed Ghost/Jon in my previous post I thought for pete's sake GRRM named the direwolf Ghost. Ghost + Jon = Ghost Jon. Duh.

[darrylzero]

I hope to hell someone hunts Ramsay.

After I typed Ghost/Jon in my previous post I thought for pete's sake GRRM named the direwolf Ghost. Ghost + Jon = Ghost Jon. Duh.

I'm not sure I follow.

[fassreiter]

In the North: Melisandre and Tormund reveal some awesome plan Jon set up during the two hours talk. Jon 'gets better', while Tormund and many (many!) wildlings march on Winterfell and do awesome stuff. Mance Rayder, who is perfectly alive, joins them. The North rallies to Jon and the free folk and the rest of the Night's Watch. Before they do, much and more happens politically as to joining all those hairy Northern lords. The Night's Watch change their anti-wildling-rules and turn them into anti-wights-rules. Jon is freed from his vows and proclaimed King in the North. The free folk find some agreement for staying without kneeling. Davos and Rickon come back. Rickon gets to be Lord of Winterfell. They set up the wall for zombie apocalypse. What they don't know is that a true zombie apocalypse gets boring soon without funny modern gadgets (like lawn-mowers), and anyway won't happen in a book of this length. This is also because

in the slavery south, Daenerys goes more and more insane. Accordingly, her dragons get more and more unruly, eat more people and grow bigger and more hungry every day. She burns khalasars, slaver cities and everyone she doesn't trust or doesn't look handsome and manly, all for the greater good. Barristan finally realizes she is her father's daugther. Dany kills Aegon and the sellswords and marches on Westeros, her dragons burning down the countryside, which is the set up for the final book with the dragons, the Others (and some, but not so many zombies), and the awesomely united North.

Meanwhile, all other pieces are set into place in the Riverlands, King's Landing and the Vale. Cersei lives, Maergery dies. Varys does something. Several Dornish people also do something and fail. Littlefinger is killed by Sansa. Arya, Sam and Bran learn something of great value. Arya joins the game again. Sam goes back to the Wall. Bram is a tree. Jojen dies a slow death for being a lousy character with no real depth and always complaining. Meera gracefully and politically as well as gender-wise correctly catches some more frogs, then joins her brother.

Jaime and Brienne will do awesome stuff and die just to make me sad.

Much needed casualties: Stannis is bound naked to a stake and (slowly) burned alive. Melisandre realizes R'hllor is in fact the big bad Other in disguise and throws herself from the Wall in good old prophetess's tradition. Ramsay dies some horrible and unimaginable death.

Tyrion survives several dire situations and will be of highest importance to the outcome. Trees and ravens as well. Last chapter will be Bran with a horrible vision of burned lands and devastation. He decides to join the game through being a tree, rallying up other trees. One does not simply walk too far from Tolkien. Jon is too much of a Frodo, the trees are too entish, now we even got elves. Therefore: Enter the evil fire demon and his evil, evil dragons!

[mor2]

In the North: Melisandre and Tormund reveal some awesome plan Jon set up during the two hours talk. Jon 'gets better', while Tormund and many (many!) wildlings march on Winterfell and do awesome stuff.

I have to stop you here, the only awesome stuff this couple thousand strong of mostly starved women , children and cripples will do, against a superior force in number/training/equipment/provisions sitting in a strong castle is awesomely failing and dying.

EDIT:

The North rallies to Jon and the free folk and the rest of the Night's Watch. Before they do, much and more happens politically as to joining all those hairy Northern lords. The Night's Watch change their anti-wildling-rules and turn them into anti-wights-rules. Jon is freed from his vows and proclaimed King in the North. The free folk find some agreement for staying without kneeling. Davos and Rickon come back. Rickon gets to be Lord of Winterfell.

let me guess and then they live happily ever after :rolleyes: