[ADwD Spoilers] Daenerys and fertility

[Electra Makridou]

Mountains blow in the wind....hrm. Robert the Strong - some say he's the mountain that rides? Gregor Clegane was known as the Mountain. Valyria's Doom sounds like nuclear disaster with radiation - maybe it starts 'blowing' towards somewhere else? Oooh How about Mother Mountain? The Dothraki deity?

As for dany ever giving birth I just don't know. lol. She needs to stop sleeping around with bloody sellswords first.

when i read the mountain part i thought of robert strong as well he is the mountain but the wind troubles me...

[tinyskeeveuk]

It might be wind whistling through the mountains empty helmet....

[pharom]

But the prophecy itself said that after these requirements were fulfilled, Khal Drogo would return from the dead. Which is kind of weird, seeing that there's no use for Drogo anymore - he was kind of a plot device... his death was the motive that spurred Dany to conquer Westeros; otherwise, he has little use.

That's what I've never understood whenever I read all this debate about getting pregnant, all this focus on the first two needing to occur for the third to be possible, but no focus at all on the fact that all three were supposed to involve Drogo coming back. For as often as people debate the finer points of wording, it's odd that part gets overlooked so often. Does anyone really think Drogo is coming back?

I agree, but now, there's no need to introduce menstrual irregualarity, no need to complicate things unless Martin really want it, no point of this weird bleeding (unless it's a pregnancy).

The part of this scene that always strikes me is that part of "and that was how she was found," with the history of blood magic being a large part of the reason the Dothraki split from her in the first place, meeting back up at that very instant could mean something.

If I'm remembering correctly, the distrust of blood magic was also one of the reason's why the Khalasar up and left instead of trying to ensure that she joined the crones (as any khal-less khalessi should) instead of the flames. It's hard for me to imagine that blood won't be playing a part in the reunion since it had so much to do with the breaking off.

[the old dude]

OP Luckily, I have no real world experience to draw on so I never considered that I was reading the description of a miscarriage. But this idea fits in very nicely with this puzzle as I have been trying to figure it out. Lets look at this passage from GoT page 759.

"When will [Drogo] be as he was?" Dany demanded.

"When the sunrises in the west and sets in the east, said Mirri Maz Duur. When the seas go dry and mountains blow in the wind like leaves. When your womb quickens agian, and you bear a living child. Then he will return and not before."

Prior to aDwD I never thought that MMD's words were anything more that her saying, "It ain't gonna happen lady." It never occured to me that this was saying Dany was infertile. Seeing how aDwD ended I find myself wondering if this isn't an "accidental prophesy". Examining each prerequisite for Drogo's return we see this.

When the sunrises in the west and sets in the east = Quentin's misadventure

When the seas go dry = the grass that makes up the dothraki sea is literally drying up as winter approaches. One could also argue this is in reference to Balon Greyjoy's succession. Most of his sons died off-camera, Asha has been passed over at the moot, and Theon may be castrated. meh

mountains blow in the wind like leaves = when the lady of the vale was shoved out of the moon door grrm's word were ..."for the longest time there was no sound but the wind..."

When your womb quickens agian, and you bear a living child = Webster's 9th gives this as a definition for "bear". 2a: to give birth to. It also gives these, 1a: to move while holding up and supporting. and 3a: ... sustain. If OP is correct and Dany did have a miscarriage then she could bear(1a and 3a) a living child without bearing(2a) that child alive.

So what does this mean? Could it possibly be GRRM's way of explaining to the reader how Dany will be able to control Drogon from here on out. When she did the pyre in GoT where did drogo's soul go? Is it in Drogon waiting for this impromptu curse/prophecy to come true? If this is how it goes down then she won't really control him. Instead Drogon actually is her "son and stars" and just does what he does 'cause he loves her. After all we have no concrete evidence as to how their relationship will solidify if it ever does.

[Lykos]

the old dude, well I think what´s important about prophesies is that people believe in them. So in case Dany draws the same conclusions it could be a cause for hope and a stronger bond to Drogon, but I can´t see her come to that conclusion.

The last time she thinks of Mirri´s words was at her weddining night with Hizdar Zo Loraq and still took it as to mean never, of course she probably would change her mind, should she bear a living child, but would she interpred her miscarriage as bearing a living child that anounces the return of Drogo in the form of Drogon? I don´t know. If she could make the Dothraki believe that, it would be a way of uniting the Khalasars of course.

But there are several problems with the idea that Drogo´s soul went into Drogon. Did his soul split and go into all three (or at least two) dragons? Because there were only two human souls "freed" of their bodies in the tent or do you think Mirri transfered her own soul into one of the eggs when she sang in the pyre?

Regarding Dany´s miscarriage in Game, just before she gets obsessed with the dragon eggs we have the following scene.

And then Mirri Maz Duur was there, the maegi, tipping a cup against her lips. She tasted sour milk, and something else, something thick and bitter.

And in Dany´s last chapter before she has the dreams about Viserys,

[Sheogorath]

^ I like this...

I do not like Drogos soul being in Drogon. I think the theories about it feel forced.

[project5121]

A list of "impossible" things that include the (Quentyn Martell) sun rising in the (Dorne) west and setting in the (Mereen) east, and the (Dothraki) seas drying up.

So yeah, none of the listed things were ever impossible and Dany was never actually barren.

Edit: And yes, it was clearly a miscarriage.

Ohhhhhhh,nice!I didn't realize the part about the sun and the sea,I was thinking too literally(or I thought it would happen in Westeros rather than Essos).And I personally don't think it was a miscarriage,I think its just her moons blood returning....though I haven't noticed the mountains blowing like leaves yet.maybe its a reference to the pyramids?

[Boy and Girl Wadish]

hold up so when Mirris prophecy comes true Drogo will come back to her?obviously hes dead so that wont be happening but what about that Khalasar she met in that last chapter led by Khal Pono was it?Definately not Drogo but maybe another Dothraki like Pono could be another potential marriage alliance with the prophecy stating symbolicly Drogo but meaning a Dothraki?Im assuming Danys gunna feed Hizdahr to Drogon

I don't think Daenerys would marry into a khalasar again, especially Pono.

[Lykos]

Yes, I see only one way of Pono´s khalasar and Daenerys coming together and that is if Pono begs Daenerys for the mercy he showed Eroeh to spare his khalasar from Drogon´s terror.

[Lion of Judah]

I certainly didn't take MMDs words as gospel she mixed lies with truth to trip Dany up in the future.

[Vine]

Although Dany could well have missed her last few periods through stress, if this was the case, they would simply not have returned while she was in the Dothraki sea, where's she's not only still stressed, but sick and starved.

Other than just illness or injury, and considering the mention of her missed periods, miscarriage seems to be the most likely reason for the blood.

[Han Snow]

There weren't requirements to Dany conceiving again. Dang giving birth was one of the requirements to Drogo returning.

That said, the requirements were:

Sun rises in the west, sets in the east [check]

Seas dry up [check]

Mountains blow in the wind [some debate about whether this has happened, I don't think so, myself]

Dany conceiving and giving birth to a living child [miscarried, so not yet]

Mountains blow in the wind = The Wall falling

???

[The Crow's Third Eye]

"When will [Drogo] be as he was?" Dany demanded.

"When the sunrises in the west and sets in the east, said Mirri Maz Duur. When the seas go dry and mountains blow in the wind like leaves. When your womb quickens agian, and you bear a living child. Then he will return and not before."

Prior to aDwD I never thought that MMD's words were anything more that her saying, "It ain't gonna happen lady." It never occured to me that this was saying Dany was infertile. Seeing how aDwD ended I find myself wondering if this isn't an "accidental prophesy". Examining each prerequisite for Drogo's return we see this.

When the sunrises in the west and sets in the east = Quentin's misadventure

When the seas go dry = the grass that makes up the dothraki sea is literally drying up as winter approaches. One could also argue this is in reference to Balon Greyjoy's succession. Most of his sons died off-camera, Asha has been passed over at the moot, and Theon may be castrated. meh

mountains blow in the wind like leaves = when the lady of the vale was shoved out of the moon door grrm's word were ..."for the longest time there was no sound but the wind..."

When your womb quickens agian, and you bear a living child = Webster's 9th gives this as a definition for "bear". 2a: to give birth to. It also gives these, 1a: to move while holding up and supporting. and 3a: ... sustain. If OP is correct and Dany did have a miscarriage then she could bear(1a and 3a) a living child without bearing(2a) that child alive.

So what does this mean? Could it possibly be GRRM's way of explaining to the reader how Dany will be able to control Drogon from here on out. When she did the pyre in GoT where did drogo's soul go? Is it in Drogon waiting for this impromptu curse/prophecy to come true? If this is how it goes down then she won't really control him. Instead Drogon actually is her "son and stars" and just does what he does 'cause he loves her. After all we have no concrete evidence as to how their relationship will solidify if it ever does.

Actually, this "prophecy" if that's what it was (sceptical)may refer to two separate things where it says "when your womb quickens again" (when she conceives) and "when you bear a living child" (Actually gives birth). Not that it makes much difference, I think Mirri came out with a load of phooey. I do like what I read further down about the berries being something used to abort Rhaego when MMD gave Dany the drink. While this doesn't make her infertile, we all know it can sometimes make it difficult to have a live child (see Lysa Tully's miscarriages and sickly Robert). I also liked the seas drying and the ironborn. Its a new one to me and sounds good!

Mountains blowing it the wind could be a reference to Gregor, in which case his opponent would be someone whos House has some connection to wind. I'll get back to you on that one.

[The Idiots Lantern]

Except she hadn't been bleedning for possibly three months. And the bleeding came while still not eating healthy¨.

She's delirious and hallucinating. I wouldn't put too much stock in the accuracy of her memory. And we have no conclusive proof it was the berries that caused her bleeding. That evidence is circumstantial, and the only thing we know for sure ends pregnancy is "moon tea" which is probably herbal, rather then berry based.

I will point out that that Mirri only said, "when your womb quickens and you bear a living child," implying that maybe she can get pregnant as many times as she likes: she won't be able to carry it to term.

[Han Snow]

I will point out that that Mirri only said, "when your womb quickens and you bear a living child," implying that maybe she can get pregnant as many times as she likes: she won't be able to carry it to term.

Until the wall falls (mountain blowing in the wind) and an undead evil Jon Snow rapes her and puts a little coldblooded creature in her fire-y belly, one that will make peace between ice and fire.

Or not. Probably not.

[Queen Elsa]

I certainly didn't take MMDs words as gospel she mixed lies with truth to trip Dany up in the future.

Me too.

[Ludd]

Mirri's words were a curse not a prophesy

Two of the four conditions have been met.

The third I suspect will happen when either Jorumun's horn sounds , when I expect violent earthquakes and VOLCANOES - mountains which blow in the wind

The fourth IS the story ie Dany will have a child to someone, then somehow return to Drogo - perhaps through death for I see no other way for Dany to reunite with Drogo She DID kill him

[JungWheats]

I just read the chapter leading up to Dany's marriage and there are two instances in the chapter where Dany is said to be "glowing." Anytime I hear a woman desribed as "glowing," I think pregnancy. If she's pregnant hear, it could very well be her miscarrying Daario's child later on the Dothraki sea.

[ejhawman]

:cheers: Welcome!

It could be either. She might just be having a heavy flow, might be a miscarriage, might be hemorrhaging from disease/parasite (the Pale Mare). The Dothraki women with Khal Jhaqo's band may diagnose it early in TWOW, but I figure it doesn't especially matter. Things will move forward regardless.

[mlambooy]

I think it was a miscarriage at the end of Dance with Dragons, however, when it says, " when my womb quickens again and I bear a living child, Khal Drogo will return to me," I think this may mean that she will die during childbirth when she eventually does have a living child.