[ADwD Spoilers] Daenerys: Neglectful Mother!

[Envie]

Dragons can be trained just like any other animal (including man, just ask Reek). Everyone here seems to agree that Dany hasn't trained hers, and that's a serious problem. I agree. But I don't think that dragons are inherently the unbounded threat you propose; they aren't like (say) biological weapons whose spread cannot be controlled or used with discrimination (just ask the pale horsemen on both sides of Mereen's walls!)

I disagree.

There's been a lot of talk in this thread (its great so long as people stay civil) comparing the dragons to the dire wolves, horses, etc. etc. ... I think this is really insulting to the power and complexity of a creature that has not existed in the world for over a hundred years. If dragons were tamed / ridden as simply as a horse then anyone could probably do it. Fact is, historically, only Targaryens are known to be able to ride / breed dragons since the fall of Valyria.

We already know now, via Quentyn Martell, that not just anyone can approach or assume to dominate a dragon. I'm sure someone will insist that the odds were stacked against poor Quentyn since it was TWO dragons, who were being kept prisoners and were unruly and angry... blah blah blah. To me, the message of that scene was large and clear:

"Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup."

But seriously - they really thought they'd just wheel a wagon and chains up to the door and neatly pack up a dragon to take home to Westeros?! It's so laughable it was pathetic.

I do not in any way presume training a dragon is an easy task and is likely impossible for most of the people of this fantasy world. Whips mean nothing, food means nothing. Rhaegal and Viserion were 'baking' the doors and had broken heavy chains. It was only a matter of time before they broke out on their own. Quentyn and the dragon thief crew of clowns just help the process along sooner.

I also don't think learning to train a dragon is something that would be that easy for Daenerys to do considering she's up to her ears in slaver city politics and has just recently come back to civilization after the birth of her dragons.

To me, her biggest mistakes don't really even have anything to do with Meereen, it was a failed objective and we all knew this from the previous examples of Yunkai and Astapor. Dany learning to 'rule' in Meereen was a goal limited by time but one she had to do. She really did not have a lot of options with a horde of half slave half sellswords and Dothraki at her heels and her dragons were just babies. As is, they are still juveniles and not ready to 'conquer' anything.

Now that the enormous messes (political cleanup) of AFFC and ADWD are over, I am hoping the speculated time gap will happen in the next book as winter descends and people grapple with the new looming enemies of the Others and no food. This will give the dragons time to finish their rapid growth spurts and hopefully for two more worthy riders to join Dany's side. Then, hopefully, she may finally be ready to head to Westeros and rule - if Aegon hasn't already beaten her to it. :rolleyes:

[Kahryl]

I also don't think learning to train a dragon is something that would be that easy for Daenerys to do considering she's up to her ears in slaver city politics and has just recently come back to civilization after the birth of her dragons.

Um..

1. In book 3 Dany trains Drogon to breathe fire on command. She even was able control how much (eyeball melting) or little (tokar-singing) fire he spits. And the process of the training was apparently so easy IT HAPPENS OFF SCREEN.

2. After not seeing his "mother" for months, being attacked by her men, burning several arena matches to death, getting stabbed with a SPEAR, and overall just consumed with blood-rage - Drogon, the most wild and dangerous of the three, lies down for Dany AFTER SHE YELLS AT HIM AND HITS HIM A FEW TIMES WITH A WHIP. He, like the reader, had just been waiting the whole goddamn book for her to show a little spine. The other dragons would have been even easier to tame.

There is absolutely no excuse for her behavior towards the dragons, none. She never tries to train them, she never EVEN THINKS ABOUT TRYING TO TRAIN THEM, and the instant the narrative manages to twist her into a position where she has no choice, the training happens easily and instantly. WTF?

I do not want her anywhere near the iron throne, ever. Furthermore, she has to die so the dragons can move on to someone who gives a damn about them. I don't care how many contrived hallucinations she has, she is a disgusting fool. Ned at his most naive and Cersei at her most parinoid were still at least willing to THINK and to PLAN AHEAD and to HAVE MORE THAN FIVE SECOND CONVERSATIONS WITH THEIR ADVISORS and no matter how crazy things got for them they remembered to CARE FOR THEIR CHILDREN.

[MyDogIsNamedDanerys]

I do not want her anywhere near the iron throne, ever. Furthermore, she has to die so the dragons can move on to someone who gives a damn about them. I don't care how many contrived hallucinations she has, she is a disgusting fool. Ned at his most naive and Cersei at her most parinoid were still at least willing to THINK and to PLAN AHEAD and to HAVE MORE THAN FIVE SECOND CONVERSATIONS WITH THEIR ADVISORS and no matter how crazy things got for them they remembered to CARE FOR THEIR CHILDREN.

You're reading the wrong book series, then. Move along.

[Sega AM2]

There's been a lot of talk in this thread (its great so long as people stay civil) comparing the dragons to the dire wolves, horses, etc. etc. ... I think this is really insulting to the power and complexity of a creature that has not existed in the world for over a hundred years.

Yet direwolves had not been seen south of The Wall in over 200 years and the Stark children quickly adapt to nurturing and raising them. So what if Dragons hadn't been seen in 100 years? Dany immediately takes to raising them, teaching them to roast food before they eat it, but then she abandons them for no logical reason a few years later. "Oh they are too big, better ignore them entirely". Yet in ACOK she wants them to grow larger so she can ride like Aegon the Conqueror. And between Viserys, Tyrion, Aemon, and Arstan, we've seen characters who know tons of about dragons and aren't scared of their 'complexity'.

If dragons were tamed / ridden as simply as a horse then anyone could probably do it. Fact is, historically, only Targaryens are known to be able to ride / breed dragons since the fall of Valyria.

Again you make no point. Dany is a Targ. Your point that only Targs ride Dragons only reinforces that Dany's character is regressing from ACOK. She is a Targ. Blood of Dragons. Mother of Dragons. Who else better to learn to ride and tame Dragons than their mother?

Maybe if Dany was dead and it fell to Jorah to raise the dragons it would make sense to argue that he was out of his depth. But Dany hatched those Dragons then refuses to train or tame them for the entirety of ADWD? And this is after the previous two books where she pays lots of attention to the dragons and wants them to grow so she can ride them? Her chapters read like she was an Impostor Dany than the real thing.

I do not in any way presume training a dragon is an easy task and is likely impossible for most of the people of this fantasy world.

You could say the same thing about birthing or hatching dragons and look what happened there. Barristan knew a lot about dragonlore and Dany defied his wisdom by locking up her dragons. She became an idiot in ADWD. Arstan Whitebeard tells her that confining her dragons would be a mistake way back in ACOK. But now in ADWD she thinks it a brilliant move to lock them up?

Look at ADWD in the fighting pits. She masters riding Drogon in all of two sentences. In one second she has no idea where her dragon has run off to and in the next instant she has mastered riding him? She couldn't have done that in the previous dozen chapters? Or in ASOS?

If riding Drogon was that easy then why hasn't she done it before? She literally masters riding Drogon hundreds of feet into the air in one second. Her punishment for ignoring Drogon the span of an entire book is for him to rescue her and for her to learn to ride him like characters learn to fly helicopters in The Matrix. "Yeah, Tank...download the helicopter riding program into my brain".

It was so obvious at that point that GRRM was stalling and padding the novel out with filler for Dany. She could have ridden off on Drogon in the first chapter based on the level of effort mastering riding him took for her. She has never ridden him before or ridden a Dragon before, Drogon has just taken a spear in the back and is probably mentally unstable or paranoid or hostile, and she somehow gets him to ride in the air perfectly and not throw her off? But when Drogon was stable and not being attacked by spears she doesn't even try to ride him once?

Whips mean nothing, food means nothing.

She whips Drogon to attention and holds on to his neck with the whip doesn't she? Seems to me that whips are fine and Dany could have whipped Drogon in ASOS and trained him. And the Dragons seemed to be feeding on the sheep in the fighting pits just fine without killing people for food.

I also don't think learning to train a dragon is something that would be that easy for Daenerys to do considering she's up to her ears in slaver city politics and has just recently come back to civilization after the birth of her dragons.

Right. She's busy eating food and banging Daario. She even says that she would give up her crown for Daario. Like she gives a shit about training her Dragons. She's not busy doing anything but wasting time with GRRM's filler chapters.

[Envie]

There is absolutely no excuse for her behavior towards the dragons, none. She never tries to train them, she never EVEN THINKS ABOUT TRYING TO TRAIN THEM, and the instant the narrative manages to twist her into a position where she has no choice, the training happens easily and instantly. WTF?

Hey now. Don't attack me with your Daenerys hating, you're confusing sides and opinions here! I am the OP who started this thread with my complaint that at the end, I was really disappointed in how poorly Dany was behaving in regards to her dragons. My 'angst' as I put it, was very clear ... she had spent most of her time playing political drama, pining after a sellsword lover, and ignoring both the counsel of her advisors and her dragons both.

However.

I will give credit where I believe credit is due and after reading some really well thought out discussions here about the Meereen events, I am willing to put aside a little of my personal issues to try and see the bigger picture. Do I think she deserves to die? No. Do I think she should be in Westeros ruling? Not yet.

Daenerys went from being a naive young girl raised primarily by a rather cruel and delusional older brother while being mostly homeless and relying on the charity of others, to an arranged marriage to a barbarian horse lord, to wandering homeless and powerless across harsh lands after her dragons are born. All of this happened in a very short timespan (barely the length of her pregnancy).

Do try to remember she's still just a rather naive idealistic girl. I'm not making excuses for her by any means. I am really put out that she chained up her dragons in favor of futzing with a bunch of slavers who hate her and slaves who won't really be any better off after she frees them.

But something needed to happen to teach Daenerys a lesson and remind her who she really is.

Hate her all you want, the turn of events that are happening in Dany's life were a necessary evil and she is still the Mother of Dragons. Our eloquent storyteller had to find a way to help her grow up fast and be ready to truly rule if she's ever really going to make it to Westeros. I realize now that though it made me gnash my teeth, I appreciate the passion many (myself included) that Mr. Martin was able to evoke with the Dany / Dragon story.

In Song of Ice and Fire, there are no truly good guys or bad guys. You knew this when you bought into each subsequent novel of the series. Even if you think Dany deserves to die and never rule, you have to accept what and who she is and whether or not her role in the grand story will be significant or not. I personally think she's going to make a big turnaround and comeback now that she's been humbled (think of her time in the wilds with Drogon as her humility walk like Cersei had to do). Humility is often the best tool of all to bring someone down a notch or two and make them realize how stupidly they've been behaving. I think we're going to see a much different Daenerys (and possibly Cersei too) in the next book.

I was angry when I first finished the book. Now I am applauding GRRM for getting me there. :thumbsup:

[Envie]

Right. She's busy eating food and banging Daario. She even says that she would give up her crown for Daario. Like she gives a shit about training her Dragons. She's not busy doing anything but wasting time with GRRM's filler chapters.

Sorry, you misquoted / misinterpreted most of my post. I appreciate the effort you put into multiple quoting and apologize I'm too lazy to reciprocate for the sake of argument. I'm just not that diligent. ;)

I said this a few pages back after reading some pretty heated responses to my OP. I am genuinely surprised at the amount of venom a lot of you have against Daenerys, almost like real life hatred. Which is creepy. Cersei deserves far more of that venom in my book, but people seem to love to hate her and so its a given and no one goes off the deep end with their hatred like I see in this thread. Weird.

The author has really done a bang up job of evoking some serious emotions in the Daenerys story (and Jon Snow too). I truly believe it was entirely intentional for both characters. These are 'growing pains' and unfortunately for Daenerys, hers are at the expense of three amazing, powerful and demanding creatures she's responsible for.

I'm on your side that Daenerys should have never chained them up - hence why I started this whole thread.

I will not, however, buy into "Dany Hate" for any reason more than that. I believe (Targaryen or not) she has what it takes to master her dragons, gather an army, and rule Westeros. Just not yet.

[Sword in the Morning]

Don't get me wrong, I hate Dany just as much as the next guy...but I think Martin was trying to undo the deus ex machina-ness of the dragons in this book. He wanted to make sure we knew that they're dangerous, mankilling beasts and it doesn't matter if Dany is a super-special dragonborn silvery-haired whore or not, she can't control them unless she finds a way to train and dominate them.

[MyDogIsNamedDanerys]

You could say the same thing about birthing or hatching dragons and look what happened there. Barristan knew a lot about dragonlore and Dany defied his wisdom by locking up her dragons. She became an idiot in ADWD. Arstan Whitebeard tells her that confining her dragons would be a mistake way back in ACOK. But now in ADWD she thinks it a brilliant move to lock them up?

What? This is absolutely not true! Barristan agrees with her decision to lock the dragons up - he may have even suggested it - and then he discourages her from her later attempts to see them, advice she defies because she knows how important it is that her dragons have their mother as much as possible.

Seriously the contortions people put themselves through...

[MyDogIsNamedDanerys]

Don't get me wrong, I hate Dany just as much as the next guy...

What an incredibly odd statement!

but I think Martin was trying to undo the deus ex machina-ness of the dragons in this book. He wanted to make sure we knew that they're dangerous, mankilling beasts and it doesn't matter if Dany is a super-special dragonborn silvery-haired whore or not, she can't control them unless she finds a way to train and dominate them.

I agree that GRRM wanted to show us that Dragons are super dangerous, not the pets they were in previous books.

But, I think what we learn is that Dany actually is special - she is Drogon's destined rider and that is why she is able to control him ultimately. Daenerys tells us she has read that each dragon only accepts one rider per generation. So for the other dragons, they will each need their own rider before they can be tamed. This is why Quentyn takes up the challenge.

A lot of people are spewing venom at Dany saying "if it was so easy why didn't she tame them earlier?!?" This is well explained in the text.

1) In aSoS, the dragons seemed quite tame and under control. They responded to basic voice commands, and came to Dany when she called or when she offered food. It was only in aDwD that anyone realized how dangerous they were. So there was no reason to whip them or anything as far as any reasonable observer could see.

2) After Drogon eats the child, she looses access to him as he flies far away. She chains the other dragons to have a modicum of control, but she cannot control them because she is not their rider. Her first opportunity to "train" Drogon was when he returned to the pits.

3) It actually wasn't easy. HER HAIR WAS ON FIRE from his breath. She would have died like Quentyn but for her Targ fire-resistance/magical intervention. No one could have tamed Drogon except Daenerys - this was her moment and she seized it.

[Envie]

What an incredibly odd statement!

I agree that GRRM wanted to show us that Dragons are super dangerous, not the pets they were in previous books.

But, I think what we learn is that Dany actually is special - she is Drogon's destined rider and that is why she is able to control him ultimately. Daenerys tells us she has read that each dragon only accepts one rider per generation. So for the other dragons, they will each need their own rider before they can be tamed. This is why Quentyn takes up the challenge.

A lot of people are spewing venom at Dany saying "if it was so easy why didn't she tame them earlier?!?" This is well explained in the text.

1) In aSoS, the dragons seemed quite tame and under control. They responded to basic voice commands, and came to Dany when she called or when she offered food. It was only in aDwD that anyone realized how dangerous they were. So there was no reason to whip them or anything as far as any reasonable observer could see.

2) After Drogon eats the child, she looses access to him as he flies far away. She chains the other dragons to have a modicum of control, but she cannot control them because she is not their rider. Her first opportunity to "train" Drogon was when he returned to the pits.

3) It actually wasn't easy. HER HAIR WAS ON FIRE from his breath. She would have died like Quentyn but for her Targ fire-resistance/magical intervention. No one could have tamed Drogon except Daenerys - this was her moment and she seized it.

This is an awesome post. I appreciate the perspective and feedback. I agree, too much Dany hate. I've said it now several times... I was pretty peeved when I first finished the book (hence my emotional OP) but then I really started to think about it and I think its all brilliant storytelling.

I don't hate Daenerys at all, in fact she's one of my favorites. I suspect a lot of the 'haters' may feel the same way, secretly. They're emotionally invested in her story because of the dragons and now they're disappointed about how things are playing out for her right now.

This too shall pass.

[Sword in the Morning]

She didn't use any special powers to tame Drogon, she just proved to him that she was alpha. With a whip. That, probably combined with the fact that she has been caring for him since birth, caused Drogon to accept her (and even then, he's not even remotely under her control).

Let me sum up my problems with Dany:

She acts entitled, despite her inexperience. She decides that since she was born a Targaryen, then she obviously deserves to rule over Westeros. It reminds me of Viserys, except in that he was laughably incapable of... well, anything. I don't want to see a Targaryen dynasty restoration. I don't like the Targaryens. I think they've all got this sense of self-entitlement (previously noted) and that they brought it over from Valyria, which is another place I thoroughly detest. Valyria, despite being called a "freehold" was built on the backs of slaves and conquest. They would run off and burn down other peoples' countries just because 'we have dragons, we are powerful, you can't bloody well stop us.'

The Targaryens usurped the whole of Westeros by beating it into submission, the same way the Valyrians treated the rest of the world. They were arrogant and just took it from the people who were already living there. "Oh? You don't want us to rule over you? Well, we're going to burn down everything you own and slaughter your people."

And now, she wants to do it all over again. She knows nothing about Westeros. She doesn't know or love the people, she doesn't know the land, and she doesn't know of their troubles. Despite her yearning for "home" she is a complete foreigner. But she's got silver hair and dragons, thus she 'deserves' it.

I don't like her arrogance, I don't like her youthful mistakes (aka Daario), I don't like her heritage, and I don't like her.

[MyDogIsNamedDanerys]

This is an awesome post. I appreciate the perspective and feedback. I agree, too much Dany hate. I've said it now several times... I was pretty peeved when I first finished the book (hence my emotional OP) but then I really started to think about it and I think its all brilliant storytelling.

I know right? I had the same downer reaction while I read for the first time. See some of my reactions to Dany's chapters in the Still Reading section... I was pretty pissed. Also the RAGE thread and the Meereenese Knot thread. :rolleyes:

The worst part for me was that Dany just seemed so... unconfident. So uncertain. So the opposite of the strong character I was used to reading about. The only way I can reconcile this is with the information we are given in her final chapter. Dany had lost her way in peacetime. She was... letting everything slide by. She was living in a haze. She was still reasonably competent, but she'd lost her fire - her drive and desire. Her time with Drogon is when she finally looks back and remembers, and this led her to mount Drogon again - this time for real because she has remembered who she is. She is a capable ruler, that is not her destiny. Her destiny is Fire and Blood.

I'm still a bit disappointed by the book, but have overall come to terms with it. Mostly I'm disappointed because we had to have 8 Dany chapters of... ennui... and only 2 of payoff. I wanted a little more progression for Dany/Tyrion/Jorah. Tyrion's story in particular ended with a whimper. I think he signed some documents (finally, GRRM, gives us the bureaucracy we've been waiting for all book!!!)

I don't hate Daenerys at all, in fact she's one of my favorites. I suspect a lot of the 'haters' may feel the same way, secretly. They're emotionally invested in her story because of the dragons and now they're disappointed about how things are playing out for her right now.

This too shall pass.

I hope so too! I'm glad not everyone thinks Daenerys is a "vapid useless teenaged dragonslut." (yes actual quotes I've seen).

[Envie]

She didn't use any special powers to tame Drogon, she just proved to him that she was alpha. With a whip. That, probably combined with the fact that she has been caring for him since birth, caused Drogon to accept her (and even then, he's not even remotely under her control).

Don't you think, if Drogon wasn't even remotely under her control, he would have done a quick turn and dumped her off his back in a heartbeat? Dany's whip wasn't going to help her once she was in the air and flying. She knew she could die. She had to do this or die trying, the same as she knew this when she walked into Drogo's funeral pyre. This stuff is not accidental dumb-luck, you can't really think that, can you?

I will agree Drogon's not really following her directions. He won't fly her back to Meereen no matter how many times she tries while their out there in the wilds at his lair. She practices flying with him everyday. Usually he just ignores her attempts to guide him, but he does let her fly on his back.

Its my belief Drogon accepts Daenerys as his master but she hasn't really mastered him fully yet and he knows it and is begrudgingly putting up with her because he loves her as his Mother and the only human he will allow near him without frying them.

The whip, the yelling and arm waving, had nothing to do with it in the pit, nor did his snapping at her or flaming at her either. That was a confusing chaotic mess and there was no 'training' that was going to make that situation better. Drogon recognized Dany, almost belatedly, and submitted and allowed her to ride him. HE let her.

I am looking forward to seeing if there are others who will be able to do the same with Viserion and Rhaegal. :whip:

[Envie]

I'm glad not everyone thinks Daenerys is a "vapid useless teenaged dragonslut." (yes actual quotes I've seen).

I actually like that title, its funny.

Even vapid teenagers grow up to be pretty decent adults, most of the time... :rolleyes:

[MyDogIsNamedDanerys]

She didn't use any special powers to tame Drogon, she just proved to him that she was alpha. With a whip. That, probably combined with the fact that she has been caring for him since birth, caused Drogon to accept her (and even then, he's not even remotely under her control).

Actually, he is under her control in the very last scene.

But regardless I still believe that she was only able to tame Drogon because a dragon will accept only one rider, and she was his. No one else will be able to ride him while Dany lives. We are told this explicitly in the book - Aegon and his sisters - even with their Valyrian knowledge - were unable to mount one-another's dragons.

That's also why I think Quentyn's actions were brave and I believed it could possibly work. And why it was so tragic when he failed. I'd have been pleased as punch if Dany returned to Meereen on Drogon's back and found Quentyn on Viseryon's when she arrived... And I think Dany would have been pleased too. :ohwell:

Let me sum up my problems with Dany:

She acts entitled, despite her inexperience. She decides that since she was born a Targaryen, then she obviously deserves to rule over Westeros. It reminds me of Viserys, except in that he was laughably incapable of... well, anything. I don't want to see a Targaryen dynasty restoration. I don't like the Targaryens. I think they've all got this sense of self-entitlement (previously noted) and that they brought it over from Valyria, which is another place I thoroughly detest. Valyria, despite being called a "freehold" was built on the backs of slaves and conquest. They would run off and burn down other peoples' countries just because 'we have dragons, we are powerful, you can't bloody well stop us.'

The Targaryens usurped the whole of Westeros by beating it into submission, the same way the Valyrians treated the rest of the world. They were arrogant and just took it from the people who were already living there. "Oh? You don't want us to rule over you? Well, we're going to burn down everything you own and slaughter your people."

And now, she wants to do it all over again. She knows nothing about Westeros. She doesn't know or love the people, she doesn't know the land, and she doesn't know of their troubles. Despite her yearning for "home" she is a complete foreigner. But she's got silver hair and dragons, thus she 'deserves' it.

I don't like her arrogance, I don't like her youthful mistakes (aka Daario), I don't like her heritage, and I don't like her.

Eh, every lord is entitled. Hence the word. The First Men stole Westeros from the CotF. The Andals stole from The First Men. In each case, the new wave pushed the previous people out of the most fertile lands. I don't see a lot of rage over their actions.

Then the Targs came, but instead of killing everyone or pushing the current denizens further north, they instead made a United Kingdom of the First Men and The Andals, and started a golden age where science, art, and religion have flourished for 300 years.

Dany wants to restore the Targaryen dynasty, and she wants vengeance for her family. Jon wants the same for the Stark family, as do Sansa/Arya/Rickon I have little doubt. I don't begrudge them and I don't begrudge Dany either.

[Tagganaro]

I don't think Dany is useless at all. She's really impressive in several aspects, moreso than most characters in the book, and unlike most people I actually enjoyed her story in Mereen in ADWD thematically. I do feel like George spent way too much time on her that could have been better spent on other characters (particularly Bran and Arya imo).

I love the point of Dany's chapters, or at least what I perceived them to be: That as the Mother of Dragons, she's not well-suited to be a peace-time ruler. That dragons aren't cute little pets who would do well sitting around. They are conquering beasts, just like Dany seems to be at her best on the move and in battle, not ruling during peace-time.

But again, I have to insist she made several awful decisions. She managed to take herself from a position of power into a position of weakness in a rather short period of time, by being too merciful towards the Sons of Harpy and too stubborn on the slavery issue, she managed to pretty much alienate every single one of her supporter.

Then after all those mistakes, she makes it worse by falling right into the Sons of the Harpy trap of marrying Hizdar, and then even worse she finally relented and allowed the fighting pits to open, after staunchly refusing to do so to her own detriment for most of the book.

I think the best way to fix everything next book is to quickly have her convince the Khal to help her, hopefully form some sort of alliance with Victarion's fleet, and then lay destruction on all the slavers and leave for Westeros, definitely by the end of the book. If she does not, I would assume she's never making it to Westeros.

[Sword in the Morning]

I feel like I already explained it pretty well--in the pit, she proved that she was the alpha (dragon?). She whipped him, she approached him without showing any fear. She realized that if he sensed even a little hesitance in her, he would have torn her to bits and eaten her. She managed to get on his back because he recognizes and respects her, and he probably still remembers her caring for him as a hatchling. Those memories do help.

But, this isn't because she's "special." Quentyn has Targaryen blood, and the other dragons didn't care one whit about that.

While allowing her to live and not treating her like prey, Drogon does not allow Dany to control him. She climbs on his back, and he goes wherever he damn well pleases. That's why she leaves him--she realizes she has absolutely no control over him, and that she needs to be elsewhere and she is unable to bring him along by force.

That as the Mother of Dragons, she's not well-suited to be a peace-time ruler.

So... like Robert? Westeros doesn't need another warrior king, it needs someone who can heal the realm and make it stronger. If Dany can't manage to rule in peace, then she has no right marching off to conquest.

[longlivestark]

Eh, every lord is entitled. Hence the word. The First Men stole Westeros from the CotF. The Andals stole from The First Men. In each case, the new wave pushed the previous people out of the most fertile lands. I don't see a lot of rage over their actions.

Then the Targs came, but instead of killing everyone or pushing the current denizens further north, they instead made a United Kingdom of the First Men and The Andals, and started a golden age where science, art, and religion have flourished for 300 years.

Dany wants to restore the Targaryen dynasty, and she wants vengeance for her family. Jon wants the same for the Stark family, as do Sansa/Arya/Rickon I have little doubt. I don't begrudge them and I don't begrudge Dany either.

Yeah, but Dany wants vengeance on people that most other people like, unlike Jon who wants to fight the Boltons (who are pretty evil), where as Dany wants vengeance on the Starks (who are, arguably, the protagonist family), Jaime (who is now insanely popular), doesn't help that she has never met these people and the fact she presumes to know things about them when she really knows nothing about them at all, except the things her insane brother told her.

[Sword in the Morning]

As far as we know, Dany can't restore the Targaryen dynasty. She's supposedly barren, which means that she could destroy westeros, rule it until she died, and then start another inheritance-war when she leaves no heirs.

[Envie]

As far as we know, Dany can't restore the Targaryen dynasty. She's supposedly barren, which means that she could destroy westeros, rule it until she died, and then start another inheritance-war when she leaves no heirs.

I've never put a lot of stock into all that crap Mirri Maz Duur spouted at her. This woman tricked Daenerys with the blood magic promise and caused her to lose her baby in the process. I don't believe she'd tell Dany the real truth at all. I don't think she's barren. Why is this Lhazareen healer/witch given so much credibility?