Sansa's memory related to Sandor

[FacelessGirl]

Yes I agree that it was only the persona that was left behind, which is why I put 'the Hound' in quotation since it may not be Sandor Clegane. And it would be awesome if Sandor had a fit of romantic chivalry and sped off to save the dame in distress, but that's the sansan fangirl in me speaking lol.

I only have two things that I'm holding GRRM to for the series: that Arya survives all the books and lives on to be the baddest FacelessWoman/ Stark there ever was, and that Sansa and Sandor meet again. They don't have to be together forever but PLEASE let them meet again. *crosses fingers*

[daisyberisha]

I only have two things that I'm holding GRRM to for the series: that Arya survives all the books and lives on to be the baddest FacelessWoman/ Stark there ever was, and that Sansa and Sandor meet again. They don't have to be together forever but PLEASE let them meet again. *crosses fingers*

I AGREE. Arya is already a trained assassin. Now the only thing missing is an encounter with Sansa and Sandor in order to get some closure into their situation. I remember reading ACOK and rushing through for the Sansa chapters lol. What's also heartening in this is that Martin wrote a show or a book about 'Beauty and the Beast' so I think he would channel some of that into this Sandor and Sansa relationship, or is that me just being too hopeful?

[FacelessGirl]

I AGREE. Arya is already a trained assassin. Now the only thing missing is an encounter with Sansa and Sandor in order to get some closure into their situation. I remember reading ACOK and rushing through for the Sansa chapters lol. What's also heartening in this is that Martin wrote a show or a book about 'Beauty and the Beast' so I think he would channel some of that into this Sandor and Sansa relationship, or is that me just being too hopeful?

Arya is getting training but will she survive all the books? That's what I'm holding my breath for.

LOL I admit, my heart did jump whenever I got to a Sansa pov in the firs two books. They were the only ones with the Hound as a supporting character. :blush:

I've heard he wrote for the 80's show Beauty and the Beast. Has anyone seen it? Is it any good?

[littlespider]

Arya is getting training but will she survive all the books? That's what I'm holding my breath for.

LOL I admit, my heart did jump whenever I got to a Sansa pov in the firs two books. They were the only ones with the Hound as a supporting character. :blush:

I've heard he wrote for the 80's show Beauty and the Beast. Has anyone seen it? Is it any good?

Haven't seen it yet, but it's on my list.

Ron Perlman plays the beast, btw. And GRRM's said on a couple of occasions that he would be a perfect Hound. blech (I prefer Rory the giant Scot). But that's sayin' something about Martin's take on BatB and Hound/Sansa.

[Tully to a T]

LOL I admit, my heart did jump whenever I got to a Sansa pov in the firs two books. They were the only ones with the Hound as a supporting character. :blush:

I didn't notice this the first time around, but was looking for it on the re-read, and in CoK, the Hound figures prominently in every Sansa chapter! (well, except for the post-Blackwater ones, but they have significant interactions in all of the others).

Completely agree with the preference for Rory ... now we just need to see/hear more of him in S2!

[FacelessGirl]

Haven't seen it yet, but it's on my list.

Ron Perlman plays the beast, btw. And GRRM's said on a couple of occasions that he would be a perfect Hound. blech (I prefer Rory the giant Scot). But that's sayin' something about Martin's take on BatB and Hound/Sansa.

Oh I love Ron Perlman! I agree he would make a perfect Hound, but only when he was younger. He's too grey, now. ;) Rory is perfect for me now. Haha, the Giant Scot. New petname, everyone!

Definitely will check out B&B now, I love Ron to death!

[daisyberisha]

Haven't seen it yet, but it's on my list.

Ron Perlman plays the beast, btw. And GRRM's said on a couple of occasions that he would be a perfect Hound. blech (I prefer Rory the giant Scot). But that's sayin' something about Martin's take on BatB and Hound/Sansa.

in case you haven already seen this...

[daisyberisha]

Bride of Fire already posted this in the thread.

The SPECIFIC false memory? That gives me hope lol. They have to meet, I'm so sick and tired of reading all this fanfictiom about them lmao. And besides, according to ADWD, Gregor may still be alive, posing as Robert Strong, which gives Sandor his chance at killing his brother and Martin 'finishing his story'.

[daisyberisha]

Does anyone see any type of symbolism in Sandor's cloak, especially in relation to what a cloak means in the Westerosi tradition of marriage? To me it seems very symbolic when Sandor gives Sansa his cloak while she was trying to cover herself in aCoK. Of course it would symbolize protection but could it also foreshadow future events? A SanSan fan may hope.

[FacelessGirl]

Does anyone see any type of symbolism in Sandor's cloak, especially in relation to what a cloak means in the Westerosi tradition of marriage? To me it seems very symbolic when Sandor gives Sansa his cloak while she was trying to cover herself in aCoK. Of course it would symbolize protection but could it also foreshadow future events? A SanSan fan may hope.

That is a good point. The white cloak symbolizes the Kingsgaurd I believe. There is a new man on the Kingsguard. He's rather tall, doesn't speak or eat. Did I mention he's REALLY tall?

[littlebird_]

To me, that whole "I could keep you safe, no one would ever hurt you again or I'd kill them" thing sounded like a proposition. My interpretation, such that it was, is that he was asking her to become his "girlfriend" and not really offering to take her to Robb. He might have decided to take her to her family once they hit the road and he has to select a destination but I'm reading a sexual invitation there.

It was definitely a proposition. I don't think it was just a I wil save you and take you to your family. He might have done that when he sobered up and realized that there really was nowhere else to go with Sansa Stark next to you but the proposition itself was personal, it was come with

me

, I will take care of you. Perhaps if he added family somewhere there Sansa would have said yes but he really didn't give her too much time to respond

[brashcandy]

Does anyone see any type of symbolism in Sandor's cloak, especially in relation to what a cloak means in the Westerosi tradition of marriage? To me it seems very symbolic when Sandor gives Sansa his cloak while she was trying to cover herself in aCoK. Of course it would symbolize protection but could it also foreshadow future events? A SanSan fan may hope.

Hmmm, you're unto to something there daisyberisha.. Men do place their cloaks around the women when they get married... so again this could represent a future union... And adding to the symbolism is the fact that Sansa herself uses his cloak to wrap herself in on the last night of the battle when he comes to her room. Again, more possible foreshadowing.

In the first scene you mention when he gave her the cloak to cover herself (I'll have to refresh myself on this) after being stripped by the other knights, the cloak is obviously white - an ironic symbol given how she is treated in that scene. Sansa uses it to cover her shame, but it's really a symbol of the knights' shame and lack of decency, to treat a young girl this way.

However, in the bedroom scene, the cloak is bloody, and Sansa chooses to wrap herself in it. So I think the symbolism changes here and the bloodied cloak represents a transformation in their relationship - it's not a cloak that stands for lies and illusions, but something honorable and good. Sandor's casting it off shows that he is repulsed by what it traditionally stood for, and Sansa's wearing of it indicates that the old order is beginning to crumble - her world view will become bloodied - but this is a good thing, because it means seeing others for what they truly are and not how they are portrayed in fairytales and songs...

Hope this made some sense :)

[FacelessGirl]

That is a good point. The white cloak symbolizes the Kingsgaurd I believe. There is a new man on the Kingsguard. He's rather tall, doesn't speak or eat. Did I mention he's REALLY tall?

Did I mention that he may have a connection to the Hound? And give him a reason to live up to the image of a good knight when it comes to Sansa?

Does anyone remember Bran's dream?

[daisyberisha]

Hmmm, you're unto to something there daisyberisha.. Men do place their cloaks around the women when they get married... so again this could represent a future union... And adding to the symbolism is the fact that Sansa herself uses his cloak to wrap herself in on the last night of the battle when he comes to her room. Again, more possible foreshadowing.

In the first scene you mention when he gave her the cloak to cover herself (I'll have to refresh myself on this) after being stripped by the other knights, the cloak is obviously white - an ironic symbol given how she is treated in that scene. Sansa uses it to cover her shame, but it's really a symbol of the knights' shame and lack of decency, to treat a young girl this way.

However, in the bedroom scene, the cloak is bloody, and Sansa chooses to wrap herself in it. So I think the symbolism changes here and the bloodied cloak represents a transformation in their relationship - it's not a cloak that stands for lies and illusions, but something honorable and good. Sandor's casting it off shows that he is repulsed by what it traditionally stood for, and Sansa's wearing of it indicates that the old order is beginning to crumble - her world view will become bloodied - but this is a good thing, because it means seeing others for what they truly are and not how they are portrayed in fairytales and songs...

Hope this made some sense :)

Thanks for your insight, just made my night lol.

[daisyberisha]

Did I mention that he may have a connection to the Hound? And give him a reason to live up to the image of a good knight when it comes to Sansa?

Does anyone remember Bran's dream?

Which one of Bran's dreams? And yes, it's so obvious that Robert Strong is Gregor's zombie and that Sandor has to kill

him in order for the books to be awesome (not that they aren't already).

[Starbird]

Starbirdy, you have to qualify that statement!

"if you're sheltered from all other men, besides Sandor Clegane, with nothing at all to do but not be found. ;)

Sheltered with Tyrion, I could find lots to do!

LOL Okay, fair enough. :)

I know, it's just like...GUH. Right? It's the scene where he rides in through the gates of the castle after rescuing her from the mob, and she's riding behind him with her arms tight around his waist. GUH x infinity. And he says something about the little bird is bleeding, someone take her back to her cage and clean her up. And then he bitches about how no harm better come to his horse, referring to Stranger, IIRC.

I swooned, then lol'd. Priorities: little bird, horse, everything else.

Ohhhh! That doesn't count! He wasn't calling her 'Little Bird.' He was just referring to her as a little bird. Sorry, not as swoon-worthy now. I did laugh about the horse thing, too, although it struck me as kind of a cover. I think he was genuinely upset that Sansa was nearly ripped to pieces by the mob and he was working overtime not to give away that he was afraid for her. Methinks he was protesting too much. ("See to my horse! No one better mess with my horse! Get the girl out of here, I'm big and bad and scary, all I care about is my horse! Bluster! Bluster!")

Hmmm, you're unto to something there daisyberisha.. Men do place their cloaks around the women when they get married... so again this could represent a future union... And adding to the symbolism is the fact that Sansa herself uses his cloak to wrap herself in on the last night of the battle when he comes to her room. Again, more possible foreshadowing.

In the first scene you mention when he gave her the cloak to cover herself (I'll have to refresh myself on this) after being stripped by the other knights, the cloak is obviously white - an ironic symbol given how she is treated in that scene. Sansa uses it to cover her shame, but it's really a symbol of the knights' shame and lack of decency, to treat a young girl this way. However, in the bedroom scene, the cloak is bloody, and Sansa chooses to wrap herself in it. So I think the symbolism changes here and the bloodied cloak represents a transformation in their relationship - it's not a cloak that stands for lies and illusions, but something honorable and good. Sandor's casting it off shows that he is repulsed by what it traditionally stood for, and Sansa's wearing of it indicates that the old order is beginning to crumble - her world view will become bloodied - but this is a good thing, because it means seeing others for what they truly are and not how they are portrayed in fairytales and songs...

Hope this made some sense :)

I like your interpretation of this. Further, in the yard, the cloak is given to her. In her room, she takes it. Conscious choice.

As an aside, Sandor didn't give her his cloak until Tyrion snapped about someone covering her up. Was he momentarily stunned about what happened (being ordered to hit her and then seeing her half naked)? Was he just enjoying the view? Taken aback by Tyrion's sudden arrival? None of the above?

[Été]

As an aside, Sandor didn't give her his cloak until Tyrion snapped about someone covering her up. Was he momentarily stunned about what happened (being ordered to hit her and then seeing her half naked)? Was he just enjoying the view? Taken aback by Tyrion's sudden arrival? None of the above?

It's possible that I've read the Hound totally wrong as a character, but in that scene, he and Tyrion seem to be on the same wavelength, pitying Sansa rather than lusting after her. The whole thing happened pretty fast, but I don't think it would have been the Hound's place to throw her a cover-up until Tyrion directly asked.

[3LittleBirds]

Ohhhh! That doesn't count! He wasn't calling her 'Little Bird.' He was just referring to her as a little bird. Sorry, not as swoon-worthy now. I did laugh about the horse thing, too, although it struck me as kind of a cover. I think he was genuinely upset that Sansa was nearly ripped to pieces by the mob and he was working overtime not to give away that he was afraid for her.

Still makes me swoon :) I read it as a loss of control, as it sounds suspiciously like a pet name (which it is, but they don't know that), even though he's not calling her that. IDK, hard to explain, but he's definitely shaken up I think, and loses control for a split second, letting his emotions get the best of him to some degree. Cue swoon! The horse thing I find adorable, because Stranger is such a bloody bastard that you know there's no way the crowd is messing with it HIM. But Sandor wubs his mean horse! EDIT: Obviously, Stranger is a male, not an it. ;)

I like your interpretation of this. Further, in the yard, the cloak is given to her. In her room, she takes it. Conscious choice.

As an aside, Sandor didn't give her his cloak until Tyrion snapped about someone covering her up. Was he momentarily stunned about what happened (being ordered to hit her and then seeing her half naked)? Was he just enjoying the view? Taken aback by Tyrion's sudden arrival? None of the above?

I liked the cloak interpretation as well. I don't have my book on me for an exact quote, but I'd like to point out that when he gives her his cloak after she's been stripped (the 1st time he gives it to her) she clenches it in her fists and has a thought about how velvet or satin had never felt so fine, something along those lines. I like how you point out that she takes the cloak in her room. He drops it on the floor...she's the one to get up and huddle underneath it. Here's to hoping for "third time's a charm", in which he pins it gently around her shoulders (but a Clegane house one this time, plz!) Aaaand, /fangirldream ;)

As to your aside:

I don't know if we can know for sure, but I happen to think that he was acutely aware of what was happening and most definitely not enjoying the view (I mean, he may have enjoyed the view, like, physiologically, but I doubt he was enjoying it emotionally). It was, IIRC, the most brutal beating yet, and he actually said "Enough" at one point, but Joffrey refused to stop it.

My opinion is that he wasn't willing or able to directly go against Joffrey yet (in fact he doesn't EVER bring himself to directly go against Joffrey, just runs away from him) and so he stood there and watched. We see later that he hates himself for it, in Arya's chapters, but what could he realistically have done? He doesn't have the power that Tyrion does over Joff, and it's not like he could have fought with the rest of the Kingsguard for obeying Joffrey's orders. At that point, he's a dog, he does what he's told, and deals with it. Sad, really :(

[littlespider]

Quick aside because I'm in a rush...

In thinking about casual cloak exchanges between men and women in asoiaf:

Sam also casually gives Gilly his cloak when he first meets her at Craster's keep, and we all know how that turned out... Shagtastic!

[Alexia]

It's possible that I've read the Hound totally wrong as a character, but in that scene, he and Tyrion seem to be on the same wavelength, pitying Sansa rather than lusting after her. The whole thing happened pretty fast, but I don't think it would have been the Hound's place to throw her a cover-up until Tyrion directly asked.

Yeah, that would be epically gross and perverse. He seemed to feel very sorry for her when he came to get her, he froze when he was originally ordered to hit her, and as soon as Tyrion put in the request he threw a cloak at her. That would be pretty grotesque and it seemed pretty plain that he didn't get off on seeing her hurting, at all. :stillsick: