Alexia Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 I can agree that the relationship with Sandor is unhealthy and an indicator of an unhealthy mental state, but I can't compare it to LF. Sandor at least loves Sansa, and wants to sleep with Sansa. As opposed to LF who would like to proxy-fuck Catelyn through Sansa (literally and metaphorically). Sandor wanted to take her away and keep her safe, as opposed to LF, who framed her for murder to keep her completely in his power, is using her for political gain, and would throw her over in a heartbeat if he saw benefit in it.I do not believe that Sansa would have been wise to leave with Sandor during the battle; he was behaving too erratically and I'm pretty sure she would have wound up having sex with him shortly thereafter despite not really being ready for it. However, our current 14-year old Sansa is probably much safer mentally, emotionally, and physically with Sandor than she is with LF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleDragon Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 I do not believe that Sansa would have been wise to leave with Sandor during the battle; Me neither. Can you imagine Sansa riding and camping in the forest? Arya is a more practical thinking girl, but even she was suffering of cold and hunger and everything during the journey. Sandor was not at a nerve and mental state dealing with a complaining woman, even Arya was too much for him sometimes: speaking too much, complaining too much etc. I don't think this journey would have positively changed the Sansa-Sandor relationship, more on the contrary. Maybe when Sansa will be more matured, Sandor will be more calmed, than they can challenge such an advanture... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raksha the Demon Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 I can agree that the relationship with Sandor is unhealthy and an indicator of an unhealthy mental state, but I can't compare it to LF. Sandor at least loves Sansa, and wants to sleep with Sansa. As opposed to LF who would like to proxy-fuck Catelyn through Sansa (literally and metaphorically). Sandor wanted to take her away and keep her safe, as opposed to LF, who framed her for murder to keep her completely in his power, is using her for political gain, and would throw her over in a heartbeat if he saw benefit in it.I do not believe that Sansa would have been wise to leave with Sandor during the battle; he was behaving too erratically and I'm pretty sure she would have wound up having sex with him shortly thereafter despite not really being ready for it. However, our current 14-year old Sansa is probably much safer mentally, emotionally, and physically with Sandor than she is with LF.Littlefinger's relationship with Sansa is extremely creepy and dangerous; it makes the Sandor/Sansa relationship look like two teenyboppers at a church social. I think Littlefinger has strong feelings for Sansa; he wants to rewrite his own history, achieve what he could not in his youth, by taking control of Catelyn's daughter; and it's rather horrifying that not only is part of that control heaping guilt on Sansa's head for the deaths of Dontos and to some extent Lysa and Marillion, he is also grooming her to have sex with him. I totally agree that Littlefinger would throw Sansa to the wolves if it was a choice between his schemes and her safety; though he'd probably be just a bit regretful. I really, really hope that Sansa outsmarts Littlefinger one day and brings him down. It could happen; he could seriously under-estimate just how much Sansa is learning from him and just how much she knows... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raksha the Demon Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 Me neither. Can you imagine Sansa riding and camping in the forest? Arya is a more practical thinking girl, but even she was suffering of cold and hunger and everything during the journey. Sandor was not at a nerve and mental state dealing with a complaining woman, even Arya was too much for him sometimes: speaking too much, complaining too much etc. I don't think this journey would have positively changed the Sansa-Sandor relationship, more on the contrary. Maybe when Sansa will be more matured, Sandor will be more calmed, than they can challenge such an advanture...I think that Sansa would happily choose a few months or even a year or two of riding and camping in the forest to marrying a Lannister. She'd have coped. The problem would be that she would easily have been recognized as a girl, having more of a feminine figure than the boyish form of Arya, and could have been also recognizable as Sansa Stark, being an auburn-haired girl riding with a very large, scar-faced warrior. Sansa wouldn't have easily found hair dye on the road. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littlespider Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 Littlefinger's relationship with Sansa is extremely creepy and dangerous; it makes the Sandor/Sansa relationship look like two teenyboppers at a church social. Ha! Awesome.I really, really hope that Sansa outsmarts Littlefinger one day and brings him down. It could happen; he could seriously under-estimate just how much Sansa is learning from him and just how much she knows...Agreed. What will happen is that Sansa will warg a dragon whenever Dany comes over from the East and flame the crap out of Littlefinger. :smoking: We worked this out on the Wargmaster Sansa thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexia Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 I think that Sansa would happily choose a few months or even a year or two of riding and camping in the forest to marrying a Lannister. She'd have coped. The problem would be that she would easily have been recognized as a girl, having more of a feminine figure than the boyish form of Arya, and could have been also recognizable as Sansa Stark, being an auburn-haired girl riding with a very large, scar-faced warrior. Sansa wouldn't have easily found hair dye on the road. Not that I think he had much of a plan to begin with, but I assume that he would have either taken her to her brother (like he did with Arya) or found some safe place to steal her off to, and I have no idea what that would be. But he couldn't just run off with Sansa Stark without making some sort of plan. I'd guess that he would have passed her off as his wife, like how he passed Arya off as his daughter? :dunno:I do think he could have gotten her safely back to her family though. He got caught in a passed out drunk stage and I doubt he would have devolved to that if he had Sansa with him. He did pretty well keeping Arya safe.Interesting speculation here: what would he have done with her if she came with? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littlebird_ Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 Agreed. What will happen is that Sansa will warg a dragon whenever Dany comes over from the East and flame the crap out of Littlefinger. :smoking: We worked this out on the Wargmaster Sansa thread. :cheers: Interesting speculation here: what would he have done with her if she came with? I have this mental image of her saying yes to him and Sandor staring at her without a reaction for hours. I never got the impression that he really thought it though, he was going and I guess he didn't want to leave her behind but other than that there wasn't really a plan. There would be more people out searching for them once the news got out that Sansa escaped and he would be connected to it so the conditions would actually be more dangerous.He got caught in a passed out drunk stage and I doubt he would have devolved to that if he had Sansa with him.I think part of the reason he was in that stage was because of the perceived rejection from Sansa so if she had come with him it would have been different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexia Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 I think part of the reason he was in that stage was because of the perceived rejection from Sansa so if she had come with him it would have been different.I think it would have given him something to do. Tyrion ruined his life and the Hound feels at his best protecting someone. Having Sansa with him to take care of and protect would have given him something useful to do and kept him from his funk. I think that he appreciated this with Arya, too, and he did take pretty good care of her even after she lost her ransom value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Été Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 I have this mental image of her saying yes to him and Sandor staring at her without a reaction for hours. I never got the impression that he really thought it though, he was going and I guess he didn't want to leave her behind but other than that there wasn't really a plan. There would be more people out searching for them once the news got out that Sansa escaped and he would be connected to it so the conditions would actually be more dangerous. :laugh: "When Sansa returned from the throne room, the Hound was still standing agape by her window. It had been two days now. She wondered if she should tell someone, or fetch a maester." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littlebird_ Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 :laugh: "When Sansa returned from the throne room, the Hound was still standing agape by her window. It had been two days now. She wondered if she should tell someone, or fetch a maester." :laugh: see even if she said yes they were not going to be able to escapeI think it would have given him something to do. Tyrion ruined his life and the Hound feels at his best protecting someone. Having Sansa with him to take care of and protect would have given him something useful to do and kept him from his funk. I think that he appreciated this with Arya, too, and he did take pretty good care of her even after she lost her ransom value. I agree, I think without Sansa next to him he had no purpose so he was just drinking but he does gain some purpose when he has Arya next to him but I think he lost all purpose again after hearing of the marriage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brashcandy Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 Ok, please tell me the line where Sandor tells Sansa in the bedroom that she should come with him because no one would hurt her, wasn't the sweetest thing ever :) Maybe not to Sansa, since it was coming from a drunk, battle crazed man, but still heartfelt. They both go through so many emotions in that scene, but they both end in the same place - Sandor moves from beng angry, to feelngs of rejection, back to anger again and then to ultimate sadness. Sansa goes from being scared out of her mind, to feelings of pity and some kind of desire, and finally to sadness and loneliness when she creeps under his cloak. I think the reason why she rejects him is becase at this point she is still holdng on to her fantasies of handsome, gallant knights. Let's not forget that this all happens before she marries Tyrion, before she realizes that Loras couldn't care less and that Dontos was just a hired hand. She literally at that point of the narrative could not appreciate Sandor for who he was and what he was offering. She knows he is not all bad, but she still has her blinders on. I think this is why later on, when the gravity of her situation begins to set in, and she sees that life really isn't a song, she begins to reframe her memories of that night. Especially relating to how she thinks about him in the Eyrie; she does not allude to her own responsibilty for Sandor's leaving. I have no idea where Sandor would have taken Sansa on the road with him, except that it would have been near impossible for them to elude capture. Maybe he would have headed North, or tried to head to one of the Free Cities. I've thought before that she needed to have the time in the Eyrie to become her own woman, but it would have made for a great adventure if they had set off together! However, Sandor would probably be really dead by now with having to challenge any man who merely glanced at Sansa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littlespider Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 Sorry, but I now have this mental picture of the Hound wandering around looking for hair dye while traveling with Sansa.Honestly, though, I thought that some of the most charming and tranquil stuff was when he was with Arya in that random village, and they were doing manual labor while passing themselves off as father and daughter. It was a sort of calm in the middle of the storm. Sad when the villagers wouldn't let them stay.I think the reason why she rejects him is becase at this point she is still holdng on to her fantasies of handsome, gallant knights. No, I think she rejects him because he's just scared the piss out of her (see my rape post above). Though yes, she still has her ideal of handsome, gallant knights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FacelessGirl Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 Count me in as one of those who are glad they didn't leave together. Mentally and emotionally neither of them were prepared for a The Road to... type journey. In some ways I feel Sansa was the wise one between the two when she rejected his offer. Sandor was coming from a place of desperation, love, and bitterness. It would have never worked. Besides now LittledFinger is the big, bad wolf now. His demise has been long coming, and I know a certain dog that won't take kindly to the wolf's claws in his little bird. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seanbean4lyfe Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 Besides now LittledFinger is the big, bad wolf now. His demise has been long coming, and I know a certain dog that won't take kindly to the wolf's claws in his little bird. ;)I look forward to a LF/Hound showdown. That would probably be my favorite scene in the series. awesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FacelessGirl Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 I look forward to a LF/Hound showdown. That would probably be my favorite scene in the series. awesome.I personally hope that when he's done slaying him, he sweeps Sansa in his arms and whispers "Little Bird... I have missed you.." :blush: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winterqueen Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 I too hope Littlefinger meets a gory end. It would be great if the Hound was the one to take down LF but I personally would love to see one the remaining Stark direwolves rip the life out of LF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seanbean4lyfe Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 I personally hope that when he's done slaying him, he sweeps Sansa in his arms and whispers "Little Bird... I have missed you.." :blush:I just swooned a little... I am imagining it right now. Gold! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brashcandy Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 Actually, those are the last words he speaks to Sansa right? Wonder what he was going to say.... ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FacelessGirl Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 Actually, those are the last words he speaks to Sansa right? Wonder what he was going to say.... ?That's why I imagine him saying those words again when he sees her, sort of like a throwback. I think he was going to say I love you before he left her. Or maybe that's what I wanted him to say. :rolleyes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littlespider Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 I'd like it better if she off'd LF and then saved Sandor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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