MtnLion Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 Yeah Uncat delivering the Kiss makes sense.....however i really don't like the Idea of an UnjonCatelyn had been horribly mutilated and left in the river for three days. Nymeria pulled her from the river, and Thoros said that she had been dead too long to revive. Dondarion revived her at the cost of his life, and reviving Jon would most likely cost her her life. To express some tenderness towards Jon will be a big plus for UnCat, and I don't think that Jon will have suffered anything detrimental because he is be ing preserved in cold and Ghost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MtnLion Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 How so? Last we heard of her she was still in the riverlands, and I can't see any reason she'd want to come to the wall anyway. I would think that she would like to attend Arya's wedding! On her way, she will undoubtedly speak with some Liddles who will know the story of a young boy headed for the Wall with a Dire Wolf pet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jem Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 I read Clemar's theory a few days ago and thought, hmmmm.... And now again something similar with the smoke and the salt and the Wall. Maybe great minds thinking alike! What my mind keeps going to is Dany's vision of the blue flower growing from a chink of ice - generally thought of as a metaphor for Lyanna's son, Jon, being at the Wall. But if Jon is going to be stored under the Wall, maybe that vision might mean more. What if in his death/coma/semi-dead state Jon's wargyness allows him to connect with Bloodraven and/or Bran who are able to communicate to Jon his true heritage. Then, when Jon is restored to his body, he comes back knowing who his parents are. Then he can head to Winterfell, destroy the Boltons, go down to the crypts and find....something?...maybe under Lyanna's tomb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Martell Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 A BIG part of the AA myth is him forging his sword, Jon already has 1 valyrian steel, I wonder if its just a matter of him getting it flaming or if there is more to it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Été Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 A BIG part of the AA myth is him forging his sword, Jon already has 1 valyrian steel, I wonder if its just a matter of him getting it flaming or if there is more to it...The original Azor Ahai forged Lightbringer himself, so unless UnJon picks up some 1337 smithing skills while he's warged, it looks like things are going to be different this time around. The only developed character with any experience in armoury is Gendry; although Valyrian steel is notoriously difficult to smith, maybe that will change with magic returning to the world. I like the idea of the tempering in lion's blood involving a Lannister. Returning to the prophecy identifying AAR, the idea of 'smoke and salt' referring to the stores at the Wall is a superb thought. Bravo ser; I think that's cracked it. I'm keen to find out what's down there that's making it unnaturally cold, but I'm willing to bet Bloodraven knows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Martell Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 I'm keen to find out what's down there that's making it unnaturally cold, but I'm willing to bet Bloodraven knows. Are you thinking there is an "Other" stashed down there or just the general "magicness" of the Wall? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nina Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 I think Jon's the "ice dragon" himself, being a Targ. It's not a literal dragon. GRRM always gives us clues, and when they are not obvious, these are important, and he gave a lot of attention to the storerooms. But I think that if Jon will be AA, his rebirth will not be using Mel, can not be, because Jon belongs to the old gods, but by the magic which there is in Wall or something else that will be the result of he be AA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICE CROW Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 GRRM has already proven to us that the ancient magic, that was endowed within the wall is real. Don't forget the secret passageway Sam used to transport Bran through the Wall. A magic doorway that will only open to men of the Watch and that Colder Hands can't go through it. At the very least, we know the Wall has magical properties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Martell Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 I think Jon's the "ice dragon" himself, being a Targ. It's not a literal dragon. GRRM always gives us clues, and when they are not obvious, these are important, and he gave a lot of attention to the storerooms. But I think that if Jon will be AA, his rebirth will not be using Mel, can not be, because Jon belongs to the old gods, but by the magic which there is in Wall or something else that will be the result of he be AA.I def think Jon is the Ice dragon, but I don't think that Mel has been hanging around the Wall this whole time just as a Red Herring (pun intended). The fact that Beric came back AND had a flaming sword both from a Red Priest and Mel's been hanging out at the Wall with her powers growing has to mean something. However, this just occurred to me. If we do get an UnJon in a store room/ice cell he'll be trapped there by the Walls magic, since being undead he'll be unable to pass through... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Blind Eye Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 I think Jon's the "ice dragon" himself, being a Targ. It's not a literal dragon. GRRM always gives us clues, and when they are not obvious, these are important, and he gave a lot of attention to the storerooms. But I think that if Jon will be AA, his rebirth will not be using Mel, can not be, because Jon belongs to the old gods, but by the magic which there is in Wall or something else that will be the result of he be AA. A semi crack-pot theory I've had rattling around my head: KOM states in aDwD that all magic has a price, and Melisandre states that she is stronger and the wall. She also hints/points to the spells that stop the Others are beneath the wall as well. So i put forth that Melisandre will bring down the magic of the wall (the price for Jon's healing) either intentionally or unintentionally as she tries to bring Jon back from the dead/brink of death (like victarions arm). This makes Jon AA (or one of them), and makes westeros vunerable to invasion by the others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kephv Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 I would think that she would like to attend Arya's wedding! On her way, she will undoubtedly speak with some Liddles who will know the story of a young boy headed for the Wall with a Dire Wolf pet. They have to know she's a fake though. And if she didn't know, Brienne certainly would've told her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARYa_Nym Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 Good catch! I think that it's been foreshadowed that he will be stored in the ice cells as well. If we link Bran's vision of Jon to Dany's"Finally he looked north. He saw the Wall shining like blue crystal, and his bastard brother Jon sleeping alone in a cold bed, his skin growing pale and hard as the memory of all warmth fled from him." A blue flower grew from a chink in a wall of ice, and filled the air with sweetness. There's a parallel there. I think that the magic in the wall will preserve him and that he will be revived by the magic in the wall. Another idea I have is that maybe this has something to do with Jon since we haven't figured out what it means yet. three fires must you light . . . one for life and one for death and one to love . . . I favor the magic in the wall theory though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Martell Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 A semi crack-pot theory I've had rattling around my head: KOM states in aDwD that all magic has a price, and Melisandre states that she is stronger and the wall. She also hints/points to the spells that stop the Others are beneath the wall as well. So i put forth that Melisandre will bring down the magic of the wall (the price for Jon's healing) either intentionally or unintentionally as she tries to bring Jon back from the dead/brink of death (like victarions arm). This makes Jon AA (or one of them), and makes westeros vunerable to invasion by the others.I guess we're both crack pots because I was heading in the same direction. I mean the Wall has to come down, otherwise you just get a bunch of Others/Wights standing at the base knocking on the door, posing no real threat... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Martell Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 hmmmm....blue flower, where's the connection to Jon? I dunno, these prophecies really piss me off Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikehendo Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 I guess we're both crack pots because I was heading in the same direction. I mean the Wall has to come down, otherwise you just get a bunch of Others/Wights standing at the base knocking on the door, posing no real threat...I agree. I do not see Westeros being in danger of the Others so long as the Wall stands. Something is coming that will bring it down, and it seems likely that it will be the unintentional consequence of magic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nina Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 I def think Jon is the Ice dragon, but I don't think that Mel has been hanging around the Wall this whole time just as a Red Herring (pun intended). The fact that Beric came back AND had a flaming sword both from a Red Priest and Mel's been hanging out at the Wall with her powers growing has to mean something. However, this just occurred to me. If we do get an UnJon in a store room/ice cell he'll be trapped there by the Walls magic, since being undead he'll be unable to pass through... Jon's healing is by the power of the wall, as well as in vision of Dani about the blue flower growing in the wall. But, really, I don't think that Mel has been hanging around the Wall without a purpose. On the wall she's stronger, so intentionally or not, she will combine her power with the power of the wall and somehow make it vulnerable to Others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARYa_Nym Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 hmmmm....blue flower, where's the connection to Jon? I dunno, these prophecies really piss me off "Prince Rhaegar Targaryen urged his horse past his own wife...to lay the queen of beauty's laurel in Lyanna's lap. He could see it still: a crown of winter roses, blue as frost."It's mentioned several times in relation to her and once in a story that is similar to hers. The wall of ice part links to Jon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoomPancakes Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 How so? Last we heard of her she was still in the riverlands, and I can't see any reason she'd want to come to the wall anyway. Especially since she never really cared for Jon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Martell Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 It's mentioned several times in relation to her and once in a story that is similar to hers. The wall of ice part links to Jon.Well there's the connection! Thx. I do think Mel will have a part in bringing the Wall down, I guess we can all have our "Theories" on Jon's death/rebirth/whatever, for now. Again all just speculation but I def think Mel has a part in Jon's healing/rebirth. She knew the assassination was coming, I wouldn't be surprised if all the events leading up to the assassination were her plan. It does seem pretty out of character for Jon to lead a Wildling raid on Winterfell. Maybe she saw this all coming and knew it was the only way Jon could become AA. Also once Jon is put in Ice Storage the only way to get him out will be to bring down the Wall but in doing so the prophecy is fulfilled and he'll end the threat anyway, no harm no foul... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Martell Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 three fires must you light . . . one for life and one for death and one to love . . . If Jon does die and is brought back, he could be "for death", one of the 3 dragon riders... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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