Jon Snow storeroom chapter.....

[Black Crow]

Its after she asked the Undying to show her what the prophesy of threes actually meant. First she sees Viserys being crowned with molten gold, then a lord with copper skin and silver gold hair standing in front of a burning city, and then Rhaegar dying at the Trident. Then a second sequence of three follows beginning with "Glowing like sunset a red sword was raised in the hand of a blue-eyed king who cast no shadow", followed by the cloth dragon, and a great stone beast...

[MtnLion]

That is a great interpretation of the text, perhaps since Winter has not really set on yet this means that the other candidates who have already drawn their 'swords' are red herrings, and the true AA sword-drawing event will be in the next book when we'll have the winds of winter descending on westeros. Definitely rules out Stannis, would you guys consider Dany as in the running still?

I just never considered Daenerys a warrior, and PtwP/AA is a warrior. Where Daenerys fits into that storyline pretty much is dependant on whether she actually stirs to move, and how she sees the players. Right now I think she sees Starks and Barratheons as her enemies.

[House Martell]

I just never considered Daenerys a warrior, and PtwP/AA is a warrior. Where Daenerys fits into that storyline pretty much is dependant on whether she actually stirs to move, and how she sees the players. Right now I think she sees Starks and Barratheons as her enemies.

True if AA is wielding a sword than its prob not Dany, but could a "flaming sword" also be a dragon?

[Miriel]

True if AA is wielding a sword than its prob not Dany, but could a "flaming sword" also be a dragon?

Lots of people think so ... it is a central tenet of the 'Dany is AA' theory.

And, in Dance, Xaro uses that metaphor in one of Dany's chapters IIRC.

[Brandon the Epithetless]

True if AA is wielding a sword than its prob not Dany, but could a "flaming sword" also be a dragon?

Lots of people think so ... it is a central tenet of the 'Dany is AA' theory.

And, in Dance, Xaro uses that metaphor in one of Dany's chapters IIRC.

Yes, Dany is a good fit for the prophecy if we only go by bleeding star and smoke and salt, and if we accept that the return of dragons is her sword drawing moment.

But if we take into account the rest of the text it seems to imply that winter has set on before AA's sword drawing moment, as HM explained on his post:

"In this dread hour" implies to me it a period of time, not necessarily a single moment. The "stars will bleed" (which could be signified by the bloody star sigil, if someone was looking into a fire for prophecies and just saw an image) and "the cold breath of darkness will fall heavy" (which I would assume is the cold that accompanies the Others). So the question is are the Others already among them or will there be a full on assault? And THEN the sword will be drawn, fulfilling the prophecy...

This interpretation then would remove Stannis from consideration, as winter has not yet overrun Westeros when his sword was drawn. And I think Dany too because the return of the Dragons was before 'darkness fell heavy', or do you think she'll have another sword moment?

[House Martell]

This interpretation then would remove Stannis from consideration, as winter has not yet overrun Westeros when his sword was drawn. And I think Dany too because the return of the Dragons was before 'darkness fell heavy', or do you think she'll have another sword moment?

I think at this point Stannis is out of the running, I mean when Mel tries to see him all she gets is Jon. All signs according to Mel point to Jon, but we are also constantly reminded how she keeps screwing up her "prophecies". Other than Renly's death (which she herself carried out) has she been right about anything else?

[MtnLion]

There was a reason fro Rhaegar to put down his harp and train with weapons. He thought of himself as PtwP/AA, and realized that PtwP/AA must be a warrior to fulfil destiny. In retrospect we know that he was wrong, as he did, when Aegon was born. Daenerys just does not fit my definition of warrior, with or without dragons. She does fit the definition of trickster, though: Here you go, one dragon for 8,000 unsullied, oh; Drogon; roast his arse!

[Black Crow]

All signs according to Mel point to Jon

No, that's a misreading of the passage (albeit a horribly widespread one) she's looking for Stannis and frustrated first by her inability to see him at all, and then, after Bloodraven chimes in, sees Jon surrounded by skulls and general death and destruction, but no flaming swords or any other "signs".

On that basis Patchface could be hailed as AA since she sees him surrounded by skulls too.

The whole thing really comes down to that introductory bit in her POV where she mentally girds her loins before yet one more attempt to see Stannis, reminding herself how easy it is to be led astray by looking for what is wanted to be seen rather than relaxing and seing what's sent.

Not, as you say, that she always takes that advice herself, but I think that a lot of readers also read what they want to read into it; wanting Jon to be AA and interpreting the passage accordingly.

But as to the real question; it aint going to be Stannis, not least because he himself doesn't believe he is.

[The Mother of The Others]

we are also constantly reminded how she keeps screwing up her "prophecies". Other than Renly's death (which she herself carried out) has she been right about anything else?

So the way Mel's visions came true in this book still doesn't convince you her visions come true? Because her visions are coming true and people are saying her visions don't come true.

[themerchant]

Who is AA "promised"(The prince, not sure if they are seperate entities) to?

[BloodOfKingu]

I'm Azor Ahai.

No I'm Azor Ahai

You're both wrong, I'm Azor Ahai.

No you're not, I'm Azor Ahai.

Well my Azor Ahai will fight your Azor Ahai any day...

you're not azor ahai, you're a very naughty boy.

or:

you are the true azor ahai. i should know, i've followed a few in my time.

and funny as those quotes are, they do sum up religion and prophecy as much in the real world as in westeros. which, i think, is one of the lessons asoiaf gives us.

[House Martell]

Not, as you say, that she always takes that advice herself, but I think that a lot of readers also read what they want to read into it; wanting Jon to be AA and interpreting the passage accordingly.

I wasn't reading into that, I was going by the "vision" she had of Jon surrounded by white holding a flaming sword (or something along those lines), I could be mistaken but didn't she see that as well?

So the way Mel's visions came true in this book still doesn't convince you her visions come true? Because her visions are coming true and people are saying her visions don't come true.

Her "surrounded by daggers" vision? ok so Jon got stabbed, but overall she's gotta be no better than 50/50 (which doesn't impress). She's been pushing Stannis as AA (i think we all agree is wrong), She told Stannis he would be victorious (but got his butt kicked at blackwater), told Jon his "sister" was in danger (The real Arya is probably the safest person in the whole story right now). And I don't want to hear about the whole how "her visions were right, but she interrupted them wrong", same difference, if she can't tell you something useful than what's the point. The "visions/prophecies" Dany has been told have all be right on (maybe a little cryptic, but still useful(sun's son, for example), i think we know where "going back to go forward" is going. So why is everyone else so capable in their visions?

[Miriel]

Who is AA "promised"(The prince, not sure if they are seperate entities) to?

Probably all the desperate multitudes he's gonna save ...

[Miriel]

Her "surrounded by daggers" vision? ok so Jon got stabbed, but overall she's gotta be no better than 50/50 (which doesn't impress). She's been pushing Stannis as AA (i think we all agree is wrong), She told Stannis he would be victorious (but got his butt kicked at blackwater), told Jon his "sister" was in danger (The real Arya is probably the safest person in the whole story right now). And I don't want to hear about the whole how "her visions were right, but she interrupted them wrong", same difference, if she can't tell you something useful than what's the point. The "visions/prophecies" Dany has been told have all be right on (maybe a little cryptic, but still useful(sun's son, for example), i think we know where "going back to go forward" is going. So why is everyone else so capable in their visions?

She did see Joffrey, Robb, and Balon dying.

[House Martell]

She did see Joffrey, Robb, and Balon dying.

OK, yes she has been on occasion correct. I'm just saying we certainly have to take her POV with a pile of salt, because she's far from reliable source of information.

also with a "War of 5 Kings" it's pretty certain the majority of them will fall, that's the oldest "psychic" trick in the book, broad easily fulfilled prophecies.

[nanother]

I think if Mel told us her actual visions, as opposed to her interpretations of them, the success rate would be much higher. Like, the vision about 'Arya' was fairly accurate, except it wasn't Arya, that was only her assumption.

Speaking of that vision, what was Alys Karstark doing by the Long Lake (where Mel supposedly saw her)? If she was coming from Karhold, she shouldn't have been anywhere near that, should she?

[lordthade]

I think it was Jon that identified it as the Long Lake from Mel's description. I don't recall Mel saying it was Long Lake.

Mel just said 3 "kings" would die, not which ones or how.

[House Martell]

Mel: I saw a vision in the flames of an awful stench rising from a privy

Selyse: OMG I took a big crap today, see Stannis, she's magic!

[Stannis the Great]

I wasn't reading into that, I was going by the "vision" she had of Jon surrounded by white holding a flaming sword (or something along those lines), I could be mistaken but didn't she see that as well?

Her "surrounded by daggers" vision? ok so Jon got stabbed, but overall she's gotta be no better than 50/50 (which doesn't impress). She's been pushing Stannis as AA (i think we all agree is wrong), She told Stannis he would be victorious (but got his butt kicked at blackwater), told Jon his "sister" was in danger (The real Arya is probably the safest person in the whole story right now). And I don't want to hear about the whole how "her visions were right, but she interrupted them wrong", same difference, if she can't tell you something useful than what's the point. The "visions/prophecies" Dany has been told have all be right on (maybe a little cryptic, but still useful(sun's son, for example), i think we know where "going back to go forward" is going. So why is everyone else so capable in their visions?

So... If Dany's prophecies are true then why have Griff and YG not gone to Meereen? Unless of course the prophecy was just vague about timing and location. And by the way how's that Stallion that's Mounting the World doing? Oh wait. It's bullshit. Even if the stallion was supposed to be Dany or one of the dragons, then the priestess who made the vision was wrong (saying 'he' when dragons are genderless and Dany is a woman)

We know that the visions of the Red Priests aren't made up - we see Moqorro get everything right. It's interpretation of prophecy that's key. It's clear that Mel's prophecy visions are correct just not her interpretation of them.

[House Martell]

So... If Dany's prophecies are true then why have Griff and YG not gone to Meereen? Unless of course the prophecy was just vague about timing and location. And by the way how's that Stallion that's Mounting the World doing? Oh wait. It's bullshit. Even if the stallion was supposed to be Dany or one of the dragons, then the priestess who made the vision was wrong (saying 'he' when dragons are genderless and Dany is a woman)

We know that the visions of the Red Priests aren't made up - we see Moqorro get everything right. It's interpretation of prophecy that's key. It's clear that Mel's prophecy visions are correct just not her interpretation of them.

-Which prophecy was supposed to mean Griff & YG went to Meereen?

-She may have had the Stallion in her but he was killed

and what proof do we have of Mel's actual power? We know she has a handy anti-poison necklace, we know she can glamor people to look different (that seems to be a fairly common trick, pretty soon Arya will do it), and yes she does have "visions" which have hardly been beneficial. The other Red Priests have raised the dead, created awesome fire healed super hands, what has Mel really done that's SO great?