The Official Appreciation Thread for Sansa, Queen in the North v. 3

[ARYa_Nym]

Technically Jon was born a King...if R+L=J is true.

Yup. That and the dragons is precisely why I think that Dany is the PWWP. Only Aegon, Dany, and Viserys were born as princes/princess.

[Lemon Cake]

Just noticed this while flipping through ASoS. Sansa has just been told by Margaery and the Queen of Thorns that they plan to marry her to Margaery's brother, and Sansa is still under the mistaken assumption that they mean Loras.

She could only imagine what it would be like to pull up his tunic and caress the smooth skin underneath, to stand on her toes and kiss him, to run her fingers through those thick brown curls and drown in his deep brown eyes. A flush crept up her neck.

Oh my. :blushing: Those are some borderline naughty thoughts there, Sansa. I knew she'd had some... "grown up" imaginings about Sandor Clegane later on, but I didn't remember her having any about Loras.

I don't know, it just surprised me. I'd always thought her crush on Loras was very much a little girl's crush. But maybe not so much.

[headtrip_honey]

Technically Jon was born a King...if R+L=J is true.

If Aegon is really Aegon, then Jon wasn't born a king. Jon was likely still a bastard, last in the line of inheritance.

But this is not the Jon thread, so I'll shut up. :)

[brashcandy]

Those are some borderline naughty thoughts there, Sansa.

Those weren't borderline, they were pretty much full naughty :) Yeah, Sansa did have a pretty strong attraction to Loras, and this is one of the rare times when she actually expresses desire for someone in such clear terms. It's gonna be really interesting to see how she reacts to Harry the Heir in TWOW if they do end up meeting.

[Candor]

SOBBING FOREVER. :crying:

On a somewhat happier and more Sansa-related note, another tiny little Sansa-Jon moment that always made me smile was when he met Gilly, and he didn't really know what to say to her at first, so he told her her name was pretty because he remembered Sansa telling him that you should always tell a girl her name is pretty when you're introduced to her.

It just tickles me to think of littlegirl!Sansa instructing her big brothers on how to act around girls, and to think that Jon was actually listening to her. :lol:

:crying: FOREVER! Fml, it's moment's like those that hit me hard.

And as happy as recollections like that are, they still make me go :frown5: borderline :crying: becuase it seems unlikely to ever be that happy in the world again. I hope it will, but this is a pretty bleak world at the moment.

But oh Jon, lol, good for you. Courtesy is a lady's Night's Watchmen's armor. :laugh:

[Alexia]

Oh my. :blushing: Those are some borderline naughty thoughts there, Sansa. I knew she'd had some... "grown up" imaginings about Sandor Clegane later on, but I didn't remember her having any about Loras.

I find it especially interesting (to say nothing of amusing) because her thoughts about Sandor are all subconscious. This moment, when she thinks about Loras, is the only moment in the books when she explicitly, consciously, and deliberately engages in sexual fantasy about another character. The only one.

[Candor]

Just noticed this while flipping through ASoS. Sansa has just been told by Margaery and the Queen of Thorns that they plan to marry her to Margaery's brother, and Sansa is still under the mistaken assumption that they mean Loras.

Oh my. :blushing: Those are some borderline naughty thoughts there, Sansa. I knew she'd had some... "grown up" imaginings about Sandor Clegane later on, but I didn't remember her having any about Loras.

I don't know, it just surprised me. I'd always thought her crush on Loras was very much a little girl's crush. But maybe not so much.

Oh my, Sansa. What would your septa say? ;)

Lol, get it, girl. It's a tragedy though, coz as we know, "When the sun sets, no candle can replace it." However, it's a good step for her, to be having some healthy emotions and not being ashamed of them, well blushing, but not like "OH M GOD that's repulsive I should never think of it again!". That's the good I see in it.

Those weren't borderline, they were pretty much full naughty :) Yeah, Sansa did have a pretty strong attraction to Loras, and this is one of the rare times when she actually expresses desire for someone in such clear terms. It's gonna be really interesting to see how she reacts to Harry the Heir in TWOW if they do end up meeting.

Lately, I've been in the camp of: She's apprehensive at first, but Harry wins her over. They have a good relationship for some length of time, married or betrothed, but eventually he is lost to her. It serves the purpose of plot and of acclimating Sansa so that she has some experience with a good relationship and doesn't lose her belief in happiness and love. :)

[Alexia]

I think that Sansa is going to decide that Winterfell is worth Harry, and work to entice him. But I also don't think she'll be taken in by his handsome face, and I don't think she'll trust him. Not after the glowing recommendation she got from Myranda.

[Lemon Cake]

I think that Sansa is going to decide that Winterfell is worth Harry, and work to entice him. But I also don't think she'll be taken in by his handsome face, and I don't think she'll trust him. Not after the glowing recommendation she got from Myranda.

Yes, I really want to give Harry the benefit of the doubt until we actually meet him, but Randa's comment alone makes me wary of him. I don't think Sansa's going to be at all impressed when she meets him, unfortunately.

Of course, Randa herself is still an unknown quantity and I know I shouldn't necessarily take her at her word. But for now, my instinct tells me she can be relied upon. Plus, the fact that Littlefinger is wary of her and wants "Alayne" to be wary of her too has the exact opposite effect on me and makes me trust her more. So I tend to believe her about Harry.

[Candor]

Yes, I really want to give Harry the benefit of the doubt until we actually meet him, but Randa's comment alone makes me wary of him. I don't think Sansa's going to be at all impressed when she meets him, unfortunately.

Of course, Randa herself is still an unknown quantity and I know I shouldn't necessarily take her at her word. But for now, my instinct tells me she can be relied upon. Plus, the fact that Littlefinger is wary of her and wants "Alayne" to be wary of her too has the exact opposite effect on me and makes me trust her more. So I tend to believe her about Harry.

I go back and forth on this point.

I can hope Harry is good but I refuse to pass judgment on him until we meet him. We can't trust what anyone says about him. Not LF, not Randa, not some random Vale person.

These are my thoughts:

---LF being in his creepeh-daddy mode sounds like he's making a gift to her like a father who doesn't know his daughter. "Ooh look at this handsome suitor I got you, Alayne, isn't he pretty? Don't you like him?" .......

Prediction: Harry is bad.

---And yet I can't trust Randa who defames him, either. Being that she's the same one who pretty much led Sansa into admitting something that confirms she's not Alayne, and the one who is "shrewd" and wasn't there some funny look / sharp, appraising eye type action Randa gave her on the way down? Not to mention this pillow tax is awfully convenient, mmhmm.

Prediction: Harry is okay.

Concensus: mixed, and we don't know who's opinion to trust.

regarding LF's warning, yes, I see the logic, but we have to also consider that LF is smart, and he's been *mostly* honest with Sansa about how he's playing the game while he teaches her. His warning may very well be merited and I hope Sansa treads carefully either way because it would be awful for her to say, nah, forget the warning, I can trust this girl, and then Randa turns out to be a bad egg.

[Alexia]

One thing I note is that Randa was rejected as a bride for Harry herself, and therefore her comments may be simple sour grapes. That being said, two bastards at the ripe old age of sixteen does say something objectively.

[brashcandy]

I think Harry is going to be the cause of his own undoing with Sansa. Correct me if I'm wrong, but LF plans on only revealing Alayne as Sansa on her wedding day, therefore during whatever courtship period they have, Harry will be thinking that Alayne, whilst incredibly beautiful and coming with a sizeable dowry, is only bastard born. I can see him making a move, perhaps not being as thoughtful as he would be otherwise, and Sansa getting increasingly turned off and more determined to plan something that derails the marriage.

But basically, regardless of whether Harry is the charmer of the year to Alayne, I cannot see GRRM setting this up as anything but a red herring. Perhaps if Sansa had had a few more years to get over the trauma of all that happened in KL and with the Tyrion marriage, but proposing to marry her into another political alliance, when she clearly hates such arrangements, is going to be disastrous.

[Candor]

One thing I note is that Randa was rejected as a bride for Harry herself, and therefore her comments may be simple sour grapes. That being said, two bastards at the ripe old age of sixteen does say something objectively.

Just saying from an experience when a girl and I liked the same guy I did something similar to a pillow tax to try and find out dirt about her just so I could feel better about myself. Not proud of it, but it is so. I'm worried about Randa doing that and taking it one step further and spreading said information to the wrong ears...

I think Harry is going to be the cause of his own undoing with Sansa. Correct me if I'm wrong, but LF plans on only revealing Alayne as Sansa on her wedding day, therefore during whatever courtship period they have, Harry will be thinking that Alayne, whilst incredibly beautiful and coming with a sizeable dowry, is only bastard born. I can see him making a move, perhaps not being as thoughtful as he would be otherwise, and Sansa getting increasingly turned off and more determined to plan something that derails the marriage.

But basically, regardless of whether Harry is the charmer of the year to Alayne, I cannot see GRRM setting this up as anything but a red herring. Perhaps if Sansa had had a few more years to get over the trauma of all that happened in KL and with the Tyrion marriage, but proposing to marry her into another political alliance, when she clearly hates such arrangements, is going to be disastrous.

Yeah, he's told no one who she is, not even Lady Waynwood with who he brokered the match. He just plans to deck Sansa out in a direwolf maiden cloak on the big day and be all "Guess what............!"

My deal with Harry comes from the Dunk and Egg novels, in which there was a Ser Hardyng at the Ashford tourney. He ended up fighting on Dunk's side in the Trial of Seven, and eventually died. He had his horse killed by Aerion Targaryen, the horse fell on him and broke his leg, Ser Hardyng died after the wounds went bad.

A lot of the Ashford tourney events have come to look an awful lot like foreshadowing for this time period and some of it for Robert's rebellion time period. Thus I think this one will happen too. Hardyng will fight a Targaryen, and lose, if not die.

This in itself has nothing to do with Sansa's marriage, but it might if she was married to Harry when a Targ came marching on the Vale. She can't deliver the Vale peacibly by alliance if she's married, so there would probably be blood!

[Grail King]

What Sansa needs are:

1. Someone she could trust, to me she can't put her trust in Myranda Royce as she is tied with her father Nestor for any real future plans and her father is in the pocket of LF.

Also in LF Pocket is Cobray and Lady Wyanwood, I think two people she could trust are Bronze Yohn Royce and Mya Stone. Yohn cares for the little lord and has seen Sansa before in Winterfell I think he could see pass the hair dye.

Mya seems like an honest person and from perspectives of Catelyn and Sansa in their few meetings with the girl you get no negative feelings to or from her, I think if Sansa befriends her and if Yohn see's through the Baleish bluff they could get her out.

2. Sansa needs to up her courage nothing we haven't said before, she knows what Petyar has planned she has to take a more active role in how her outcome will unfold.

3. just like in real life the girls needs a bit of luck, now that they are on the ground she may see some light in her long tunnel.

Hope the bonus chapter in ADWD is Sansa.

ETA:

4. She could use a little help from a little needle.

[brashcandy]

What Sansa needs are:

1. Someone she could trust, to me she can't put her trust in Myranda Royce as she is tied with her father Nestor for any real future plans and her father is in the pocket of LF.

Also in LF Pocket is Cobray and Lady Wyanwood, I think two people she could trust are Bronze Yohn Royce and Mya Stone. Yohn cares for the little lord and has seen Sansa before in Winterfell I think he could see pass the hair dye.

Mya seems like an honest person and from perspectives of Catelyn and Sansa in their few meetings with the girl you get no negative feelings to or from her, I think if Sansa befriends her and if Yohn see's through the Baleish bluff they could get her out.

2. Sansa needs to up her courage nothing we haven't said before, she knows what Petyar has planned she has to take a more active role in how her outcome will unfold.

3. just like in real life the girls needs a bit of luck, now that they are on the ground she may see some light in her long tunnel.

Hope the bonus chapter in ADWD is Sansa.

It'll probably be Damphair :(

Anyways, I agree that whilst she may be able to trust Myranda, it's ultimately dangerous to do so, given where Randa's loyalties have to eventually lie. It would be nice if the planned Baratheon/Stark union gets refigured into a Mya/Sansa team and they both kick ass :) Seriously, I think both girls can help one another through their respectives strengths and weaknesses. Mya is naturally strong, and fearless when it comes to heights and natural terrain, and Sansa is skilled in courtly behaviour and learning from LF how to see through people's facades into what they really want.

[Grail King]

It'll probably be Damphair :(

Anyways, I agree that whilst she may be able to trust Myranda, it's ultimately dangerous to do so, given where Randa's loyalties have to eventually lie. It would be nice if the planned Baratheon/Stark union gets refigured into a Mya/Sansa team and they both kick ass :) Seriously, I think both girls can help one another through their respectives strengths and weaknesses. Mya is naturally strong, and fearless when it comes to heights and natural terrain, and Sansa is skilled in courtly behaviour and learning from LF how to see through people's facades into what they really want.

I'm thinking a Sand Snake either one are boring to me.

[Candor]

Nah I think GRRM was pretty disappoint to not get a chance to read the Damphair chapter at the last convention... Since people picked Arianne instead.

It can't be a Sand Snake though because he's not adding new logs other than epilogue /prologue characters and I've never heard of him reading one of those before.

[Lemon Cake]

If it's a Damphair chapter, I will cry. And they won't be tears of joy, either.

Sorry if this has been discussed before, but this passage, from Bran's first POV chapter in ASOS, piqued my interest. He's having one of his wolf dreams here.

Sometimes he could sense them [his pack], though, as if they were still with him, only hidden from his sight by a boulder or a stand of trees. He could not smell them, nor hear their howls by night, yet he felt their presence at his back… all but the sister they had lost. His tail drooped when he remembered her. Four now, not five. Four and one more, the white one who has no voice.

These woods belonged to them, the snowy slopes and stony hills, the great green pines and the golden leaf oaks, the rushing streams and blue lakes fringed with fingers of white frost. But his sister had left the wilds, to walk in the halls of man-rock where other hunters ruled, and once within those halls it was hard to find the path back out. The wolf prince remembered.

The bolded parts made my stomach clench a little. Is this symbolism, or foreshadowing, or whatever, that Sansa will not be reunited with her "pack", her siblings? Or that even if she is reunited with them, she'll have a much harder time finding her way back to them than the rest, and will be the last one to rejoin them? :(

I'm probably overthinking it, I know. But still. Thoughts?

[Grail King]

Nah I think GRRM was pretty disappoint to not get a chance to read the Damphair chapter at the last convention... Since people picked Arianne instead.

It can't be a Sand Snake though because he's not adding new logs other than epilogue /prologue characters and I've never heard of him reading one of those before.

I got them mixed up, guess I can't concentrate on football and forums at the same time. :drunk:

[Grail King]

If it's a Damphair chapter, I will cry. And they won't be tears of joy, either.

Sorry if this has been discussed before, but this passage, from Bran's first POV chapter in ASOS, piqued my interest. He's having one of his wolf dreams here.

The bolded parts made my stomach clench a little. Is this symbolism, or foreshadowing, or whatever, that Sansa will not be reunited with her "pack", her siblings? Or that even if she is reunited with them, she'll have a much harder time finding her way back to them than the rest, and will be the last one to rejoin them? :(

I'm probably overthinking it, I know. But still. Thoughts?

I'm a bit optimistic here, I see it as Sansa will have the hardest time to get back to Winterfell, not that she will not get there, she's the one with more human obstacles than other members, all the other Starks had choices made to help them in some way that led them to where they are at this time, only Sansa had people choosing to hide her for their own ends.

I hope this made sense.