The Official Appreciation Thread for Sansa, Queen in the North v. 3

[ARYa_Nym]

Cat isn't his relative. He was upset about Benjen being dead though.

He was also upset that Bran was dead while Tommen lived.

"At Winterfell, Tommen fought my brother Bran with wooden swords…Bran knocked him to the ground…Yet Bran’s dead, and pudgy pink-faced Tommen is sitting on the Iron Throne, with a crown nestled amongst his golden curls. "

He wondered if his brothers lived on in their wolves.

"At Queenscrown, one had come out of the darkness to save Jon’s life. Summer it had to be…He wondered if some part of his dead brothers lived on inside their wolves…"

He didn't take the news of "Arya's" marriage well.

"...Lord Snow?”…Are you…unwell? You seem…” “He’s to marry Arya Stark. My little sister.” but he could not imagine Arya in a wedding gown, nor Ramsay Bolton's bed. No matter how afraid she is, she will not show it. if he tries to lay a hand on her, she'll fight him...By now she'd be eleven, Jon thought. Still a child. … His fingers closed around the parchment. Would that they could crush Ramsay Bolton’s throat as easily.”

He felt guilty that he couldn't help her.

"...Dark dreams, he thought, and guilt. His thoughts kept returning to Arya. There is no way I can help her. I put all kin aside when I said my words. If one of my men told me my sister was in peril, I would tell him that was no concern of his....Stick them with the pointy end, he'd told her, but if she tried to stick the Bastard, it could mean her life."

He wanted Mance to find her.

“Did he ever find you, little sister?...It had been so long since he had last seen Arya. What would she look like now? Would he even know her?...Would she still have that little sword he’d had Mikken forge for her? Stick them with the pointy end, he’d told her. Wisdom for her wedding night if half of what he heard of Ramsay Snow was true. Bring her home Mance. I saved your son from Melisandre, and now I am about to save four thousand of your free folk. You owe me this one little girl.”

So he could send her away to someplace safe. Coincidentally, he thought of sending her to Braavos.

“He wanted to believe it would be Arya. He wanted to see her face again, to smile at her and muss her hair, to tell her she was safe. She won’t be safe, though. Winterfell is burned and broken…He could not keep her here with him, no matter how much he might want to. The Wall was no place for a woman…Nor was he about to turn her over to Stannis or Melisandre. The king would only want to marry her to one of his own men…The best solution he could see…put her on a ship to someplace across the sea…She could return to Braavos with Tycho Nestoris.”

Sansa and Jon don't think of each other that much but usually they have positive thoughts the seldom times that they do think of each other.

"She had not thought of Jon in ages. He was only her half brother, but still . . . with Robb and Bran and Rickon dead, Jon Snow was the only brother that remained to her."

He still considered Tyrion his friend as of ASOS. This was while he was still with Ygritte though so before he learned of the marriage. All he said in ADWD was that Winterfell belongs to Sansa even though Stannis called her Lady Lannister. Tyrion regarded him as an equal though and told him the truth about the NW which his family did not do so I could see the appeal of their friendship.

[Alexia]

Regarding Jon's feelings over Sansa's marriage, I think he does say that he wants destruction to rain down on House Lannister. Even if he liked Tyrion, I'm not sure you would still like that person if you found out they have covered up (or not come forward with information) about your little brother's attempted murder and had forced your child sister into marriage.

Also Jon displayed an almost complete lack of reaction to Robb's, Cat's, Arya's, Bran's or even Rickon's death. He mentions Winterfell being gone etc. He does in ADWD get surprised to find out that Arya is still alive and that's about it really.

I agree with this. The reaction we do get is seeing him say that he doesn't want Tyrion to get Winterfell. I expect that if Tyrion and Jon meet again, Tyrion will come out of the encounter shorter.

[voodooqueen126]

I agree with this. The reaction we do get is seeing him say that he doesn't want Tyrion to get Winterfell. I expect that if Tyrion and Jon meet again, Tyrion will come out of the encounter shorter.

Really? Which chapter? I must reread, because what horrified me most was that Jon didn't seem to care that Tyrion would end up lord of Winterfell via his forced marriage to Jon's 12/13 year old sister.

[Alexia]

Really? Which chapter? I must reread, because what horrified me most was that Jon didn't seem to care that Tyrion would end up lord of Winterfell via his forced marriage to Jon's 12/13 year old sister.

It was in ADWD, I believe in his first chapter (or maybe second). He told Stannis that Winterfell belonged to Sansa and Stannis asked if he wanted to see Tyrion as the lord of Winterfell. Jon said no.

There was a scene towards the end, right around when he decided to march the NW to Winterfell and got killed for his troubles. He was remembering Sansa singing and brushing Lady's coat, Arya, Bran, Rickon, Robb... all of them. I interpreted it as Jon thinking that he couldn't save Sansa and the others, but he could save Arya.

[ARYa_Nym]

"I had hoped to bestow Winterfell on a northman, you may recall. A son of Eddard Stark. He threw my offer in my face."..."By right Winterfell should go to my sister Sansa." "Lady Lannister, you mean? Are you so eager to see the Imp perched on your father's seat? I promise you, that will not happen whilst I live, Lord Snow." Jon knew better than to press the point..."

"Winterfell belongs to my sister Sansa." "I have heard all I need to hear of Lady Lannister and her claim...Take a knee and swear that bastard sword to me, and rise as Jon Stark, Lord of Winterfell and Warden of the North." How many times will he make me say it? "My sword is sword to the Night's Watch."

He doesn't react on a personal level to Tyrion or Sansa but mainly Stannis' request to offer him the North's allegiance was what was on Jon's mind.

[voodooqueen126]

He doesn't react on a personal level to Tyrion or Sansa but mainly Stannis' request to offer him the North's allegiance was what was on Jon's mind.

Yeah, that's what I remember too. It seemed really cold. Why didn't he say something along the lines of "I am sure if Tyrion was so stupid to show up I could persuade* him to take the Black, we could really do with some literate people up here."

*with a sword and possibly a flaying knife.

[David Selig]

Joffrey was the Crown Prince. Sansa marrying him was expected to be a great asset for House Stark. It takes a lot more than suspicion that Joffrey is a jerk to pull out of such a major arrangement. And none of the Starks knew Joffrey was a psychopath early on. Jon and Arya thought he was a terrible snob and a major jerk to those he considered his inferiors (bastards, commoners like Mycah, etc), but that pretty much applies to most high nobles in Westeros, certainly not grounds for cancelling such an important wedding deal, especially given that Sansa loved Joffrey. Mycah was killed due to Cersei's order, not Joffrey's.

[ARYa_Nym]

Yeah, that's what I remember too. It seemed really cold. Why didn't he say something along the lines of "I am sure if Tyrion was so stupid to show up I could persuade* him to take the Black, we could really do with some literate people up here."

*with a sword and possibly a flaying knife.

Tyrion was the one who explained to him what the Wall was really like so it's likely that he wouldn't think that Tyrion would willingly go there even if he was desperate.

"Well, no doubt the Starks have been terribly good to you. I'm certain Lady Stark treats you as if you were one of her own. And your brother Robb, he's always been kind, and why not? He gets Winterfell and you get the Wall. And your father...he must have good reasons for packing you off to the Night's Watch...Those are your new brothers...how do you like them? Sullen peasants, debtors, poachers, rapists, thieves, and bastards like you wind up on the Wall...you freeze your balls off, but since you're not allowed to breed anyway, I don't suppose that matters."

[Lemon Cake]

I just want to say thank you to headtrip_honey for explaining my posts after I left and went to bed last night. You explained perfectly what I meant. I should hire you as my personal spokeswoman!

Since we've been quoting Jon and Sansa's thoughts about each other throughout the series, does anyone else remember a quote from Jon that occurs (I think) early in ACoK, where he wakes up one morning beyond the Wall to find everything covered in a beautiful white frost, and he imagines what Sansa and Arya's different reactions would have been? It always stood out to me because, iirc, he seems to think of Sansa's reaction with as much fondness and nostalgia as he does Arya's. It's one of the reasons why I don't get how people think Jon dislikes Sansa.

Does anyone know if that quote really exists? Or did I just pull a Sansa and convince myself that a kiss something happened that never actually did? As usual, I don't have a copy of the book to check.

[1234567]

He doesn't react on a personal level to Tyrion or Sansa but mainly Stannis' request to offer him the North's allegiance was what was on Jon's mind.

I thought that bit was Jon still pressing the point that he wasn't the rightful heir and also mentioning that giving Northern lands to Southron Lords would lose the support of the North. The Sansa / Tyrion forced marriage was a power grab by the Lannisters and one that tyrion was pleased about as he would be Lord of Winterfell. I don't think Jon would support that, however he is trying to be a man of the Night's Watch and is therefore trying to put his family to the side and his thoughts about them.

[Faceless Cat]

I just want to say thank you to headtrip_honey for explaining my posts after I left and went to bed last night. You explained perfectly what I meant. I should hire you as my personal spokeswoman!

Since we've been quoting Jon and Sansa's thoughts about each other throughout the series, does anyone else remember a quote from Jon that occurs (I think) early in ACoK, where he wakes up one morning beyond the Wall to find everything covered in a beautiful white frost, and he imagines what Sansa and Arya's different reactions would have been? It always stood out to me because, iirc, he seems to think of Sansa's reaction with as much fondness and nostalgia as he does Arya's. It's one of the reasons why I don't get how people think Jon dislikes Sansa.

Does anyone know if that quote really exists? Or did I just pull a Sansa and convince myself that a kiss something happened that never actually did? As usual, I don't have a copy of the book to check.

Yes, that quote exists. He thinks something along the lines of how Sansa would be in tears because it's so pretty, and Arya would want to run and play in the snow. Arya may be his favourite sister, but he certainly seems fond of Sansa as well there.

[Candor]

I feel like doing a Jon character arc re-read just to pull quotes about his family/friends. :dunno:

But I've already got so many projects on the burners that that would be a bad choice. If I happen upon one through what I'm already doing, I'll quote it.

Regarding my general impressions of his feeling towards his siblings...

I believe he started out as having good brotherly relationships with Arya, Bran, & Robb, and good but less close ones with Sansa and Rickon. He then starts his tenure at the NW, andthe events of the war start taking place. I believe at that point that Jon was distressed, so he had a very strong nostalgia about his family whether he had been especially close with them or not. Time goes on, and Jon has to grow up hard, kill the boy inside him. He gets cold for a while. But then events aroudn "Arya" open up his stores of emotion again - he is ice but I don't think it's in his nature to be so uncaring. He's again, distressed, and this time he has power, and this time he can't help but want to intervene, to save his little sister. It weighs on him. This is where we find him when we last see him.

[littlespider]

Yes, that quote exists. He thinks something along the lines of how Sansa would be in tears because it's so pretty, and Arya would want to run and play in the snow. Arya may be his favourite sister, but he certainly seems fond of Sansa as well there.

it's a great moment when looked at in retrospect after the scene at the Eyrie when Sansa builds the snow castle of Winterfell.

[ARYa_Nym]

I thought that bit was Jon still pressing the point that he wasn't the rightful heir and also mentioning that giving Northern lands to Southron Lords would lose the support of the North. The Sansa / Tyrion forced marriage was a power grab by the Lannisters and one that tyrion was pleased about as he would be Lord of Winterfell. I don't think Jon would support that, however he is trying to be a man of the Night's Watch and is therefore trying to put his family to the side and his thoughts about them.

Yes, he was more focused on Stannis wanting him to be the heir. He felt that Winterfell wasn't his place. It should go to Sansa even if she happened to married to a Lannister.

He hasn't given his opinions on Sansa and Tyrion's marriage.

[Lemon Cake]

Yes, that quote exists. He thinks something along the lines of how Sansa would be in tears because it's so pretty, and Arya would want to run and play in the snow. Arya may be his favourite sister, but he certainly seems fond of Sansa as well there.

Thanks! Good to know I wasn't just imagining it. And yes, as I remember the quote, he thinks of Sansa's emotional reaction to how beautiful it was with a lot of fondness. Excuse me while I get all mushy and happy over that for a minute. ♥

[Candor]

Thanks! Good to know I wasn't just imagining it. And yes, as I remember the quote, he thinks of Sansa's emotional reaction to how beautiful it was with a lot of fondness. Excuse me while I get all mushy and happy over that for a minute. ♥

Speaking of mushy and happy I just re-watched the episode where Jon gives Arya Needle. ;_;

And just re-read the scene in GoT where Bran and Robb are talking about going to visit Jon, and how it'll be just the two of them, an adventure, and... and... it's never going to happen which I know as the reader, and Robb seemed to think it might not as in that chapter he started crying, and Bran had to wipe at his tears and it was JUST A REALLY SAD MOMENT OKAY?

:crying:

... :leaving:

[Lemon Cake]

And just re-read the scene in GoT where Bran and Robb are talking about going to visit Jon, and how it'll be just the two of them, an adventure, and... and... it's never going to happen which I know as the reader, and Robb seemed to think it might not as in that chapter he started crying, and Bran had to wipe at his tears and it was JUST A REALLY SAD MOMENT OKAY?

SOBBING FOREVER. :crying:

On a somewhat happier and more Sansa-related note, another tiny little Sansa-Jon moment that always made me smile was when he met Gilly, and he didn't really know what to say to her at first, so he told her her name was pretty because he remembered Sansa telling him that you should always tell a girl her name is pretty when you're introduced to her.

It just tickles me to think of littlegirl!Sansa instructing her big brothers on how to act around girls, and to think that Jon was actually listening to her. :lol:

[1234567]

Maybe that's an exaggeration. But it does sound like she's resentful. But we should notice: she wrote herself into a type of story with Joffrey, right? In her imaginative world, she's sort of writing herself into a different story with the Hound, while simultaneously re-constructing (re-writing) her whole identity as Alayne. The Alayne story is the epitome of the anti-romance, yes? So it seems natural that she'd want to have this alternate imaginative story involving romance. I wonder how Harry the Heir will play into this.

Sansa has had almost no hobbies or normal life since Ned's death. The short period where she was with Marg was the only time she seemed to have anything that even resembled some entertainment. I think this ties in with the mis-memory too. She has been living to some extent in a fantasy world inside her head and also in there are her actual thoughts and feelings which she could not express in KL. I am not suggesting she is delusional, but she has had to live internally and dream about over possibilities internally too. This maybe another reason why she will be very convincing in the role of Alayne. She herself has been a murmur to some extent, ever since her father's head was cut off.

She thinks about Sandor because he was one of the very few who was nice to her. I also think she was attracted to him, even if she didn't know how to quantify it.

The story of Alayne is I think going to turn quite classic story book and oddly seems to mirror what could possibly be Jon's actuality: the prince disguised as the bastard / the lady disguised as the bastard. The only difference being that she is consciously playing the role as she knows her life is in danger if anyone finds out who she is. Jon ironically doesn't know how much danger he would be in if his parentage is proved to be R+L=J. All both of them need now is a Prince or Princess to come along and fall for them.

I think Harry the Heir will be a gigantic Red Herring.

[ARYa_Nym]

There's a

The story of Alayne is I think going to turn quite classic story book and oddly seems to mirror what could possibly be Jon's actuality: the prince disguised as the bastard / the lady disguised as the bastard. The only difference being that she is consciously playing the role as she knows her life is in danger if anyone finds out who she is. Jon ironically doesn't know how much danger he would be in if his parentage is proved to be R+L=J. All both of them need now is a Prince or Princess to come along and fall for them.

There's actually an AGoT line that can be taken as alluding to it:

"Kings are a rare sight in the north." Robert snorted. "More likely they were hiding under the snow. Snow, Ned!"

It says king not prince though. He would need a queen although he does like the not really a princess but is regarded as such Val.

[1234567]

It says king not prince though. He would need a queen although he does like the not really a princess but is regarded as such Val.

Technically Jon was born a King...if R+L=J is true.