Sandor Clegane v. 13

[1234567]

There's an interesting parallel in the Theon chapter just released from TWOW. Justin Massey wants to marry Asha and mentions that it would be beneficial to Stannis to have the daughter of Pyke married to one of his knights. He speaks of the fact that Asha's marriage was basically a sham and unconsummated. I could see Sandor taking this route, but the problem is that he's a notorious criminal (for Saltpans), and any King is likely to want Sansa for himself, except perhaps Stannis, but he's the King more likely to execute Sandor!

Problems, problems.

WOW Spoilers:

Indeed, my heart absolutely jumped for joy when I read that. It seems marriages in Westeros can be put aside quite easily regardless of the virtue test. Although Asha did have a proxy marriage, and Sansa did say the words. However given the fact that Stannis is so nonchalant about Asha's marriage, and Sansa was a abused prisoner forced to say the words, I don't see it being much of an issue.

Stannis's opinion of Sandor and the Saltpans however will be a different issue. However I can see Stannis being fair on that regard. The only evidence is the rider with the Helm. He has even kept Theon alive and Asha.

Also off topic, but Stannis seems cut up about Davos. "My Onion Lord" and wow he really doesn't like Manderly because of it.

Sorry I keep holdng out vague hope that Sandor will not be horrifically killed and have a bitterSWEET ending. Sigh. Stupid I know.

[Ednawolf]

Sansa herself seems like the only likely candidate. However he is so far below her on the social scale that the only way I can see Sandor marrying her is if she stays Alyane. Otherwise they may have to be content with one rather dark haired daughter who can be passed off as Northern looking to Sansa's husband.

I don't see Sansa being content with those terms... She doesn't seem like the type to bed him whilst being married to another -- she was even willing to be a good wife to Tyrion at first. The only thing I can think of that enables Sandor to marry her is that he pulls out all the heroic stops and gains lordship. I'm also really curious to find out how she's going to get out of her marriage to Tyrion. It seems like a long time before those two ever meet up again to iron that out.

[1234567]

I don't see Sansa being content with those terms... She doesn't seem like the type to bed him whilst being married to another -- she was even willing to be a good wife to Tyrion at first. The only thing I can think of that enables Sandor to marry her is that he pulls out all the heroic stops and gains lordship. I'm also really curious to find out how she's going to get out of her marriage to Tyrion. It seems like a long time before those two ever meet up again to iron that out.

GRRM said on one of the So Spake Martin's that only one person needs to request a marriage annulled and the other person doesn't have to be there.

[Ednawolf]

WOW Spoilers:

Indeed, my heart absolutely jumped for joy when I read that. It seems marriages in Westeros can be put aside quite easily regardless of the virtue test. Although Asha did have a proxy marriage, and Sansa did say the words. However given the fact that Stannis is so nonchalant about Asha's marriage, and Sansa was a abused prisoner forced to say the words, I don't see it being much of an issue.

Stannis's opinion of Sandor and the Saltpans however will be a different issue. However I can see Stannis being fair on that regard. The only evidence is the rider with the Helm. He has even kept Theon alive and Asha.

Also off topic, but Stannis seems cut up about Davos. "My Onion Lord" and wow he really doesn't like Manderly because of it.

Sorry I keep holdng out vague hope that Sandor will not be horrifically killed and have a bitterSWEET ending. Sigh. Stupid I know.

Yeah, I'm kinda worried about how Sandor will fair with the dragons coming to Westeros. However, I'm more optimistic... I think he WILL have a happy ending.

[brashcandy]

Sorry I keep holdng out vague hope that Sandor will not be horrifically killed and have a bitterSWEET ending. Sigh. Stupid I know.

Not silly :) Right now, Sandor seems like one of the few remaining people in Westeros whose loyalty isn't tied up with any particular House or claimant for the throne, meaning that he's a free agent, and having gone off the radar for so long, in addition to having others assume his identity, I think he could really manage to surive this mess. Also isn't Sandor technically head of House Clegane now? It's not the same as a Lordship, but it's still better than nothing.

[Ednawolf]

There's an interesting parallel in the Theon chapter just released from TWOW. Justin Massey wants to marry Asha and mentions that it would be beneficial to Stannis to have the daughter of Pyke married to one of his knights. He speaks of the fact that Asha's marriage was basically a sham and unconsummated. I could see Sandor taking this route, but the problem is that he's a notorious criminal (for Saltpans), and any King is likely to want Sansa for himself, except perhaps Stannis, but he's the King more likely to execute Sandor!

Problems, problems.

Where did you find this Theon chapter from TWOW?

[The_Salt_Wife]

It just occurred to me tonight that Sandor really is a lot like The Grinch. They both try so hard to be big meanies, when all they really want to do is celebrate christmas (or in Sandor's case, be a true knight / win the girl).

I think Sandor's distaste for knighthood is real, because he understands it stands for something very different than what is described in the songs Sansa is (or was) so fond of.

I agree that his actions suggest some (partly subconscious) desire to connect with someone, but he could never bring himself to acknowledge it. Basically his brother fucked him up emotionally and it's unlikely he'll ever totally overcome that.

He (like Jaime) is a victim of his upbringing. The difference is that Jaime was not so far gone yet, so he was able to redeem himself somewhat.

I've just finished a re-read of ASoS and I noticed that in her later chapters Arya began to refer to the Hound as Sandor (something that very few do in this series, not even Sansa). It's a little detail that I found very telling - she's basically begun to see him as a real person, behind the mask of the Hound, but she's not really conscious of it.

That's my two cents.

Merry Christmas everyone.

She's also mad at the villagers (I can't recall the name of the town but it's the village they stay at when they halt their trip up to the Eyrie) for not looking Sandor in the face. Another sign she started viewing him as a person and not some pantomime villain.

[littlespider]

Yes but wouldn't the Lannisters themselves have been guilty of Rapta since they actually did imprison Sansa and force her to marry Tyrion.

The term typically refers to forcible abduction or capturing, so I don't think it would apply in this case. The standard example is from in Arthurian stories, where Guinevere gets carried off by a bad knight and has to be rescued. The most well-known version of it is where she's snatched by Meleagaunt, carried off, and rescued by Lancelot.

So if Sandor had just snatched her from KL, it would have been a kind of inversion of this story. But it's a null point anyway.

She's also mad at the villagers (I can't recall the name of the town but it's the village they stay at when they halt their trip up to the Eyrie) for not looking Sandor in the face. Another sign she started viewing him as a person and not some pantomime villain.

Good old Arya. And she told him his face was "burned and ugly" when he asked her what she thought.

Precisely; we see this happen during the KL riot when he saves her from the mob. And he was a lot more pissed during that incident as well (someone dared to harm the littlebird), along with being a bit boastful to Sansa, and peeved that she didn't rush to thank him.

This seems to be the one time that Sansa forgot her courtesies! Yeah, I actually thought this peevishness was a little charming, in a funny way.

Then he held a sword to her neck and mocked the fact that Ned's body twitched when he was beheaded. :stillsick:

What. A. Douche. This is the kind of abusive crap that I hope he left behind him on the shores of the Trident.

[The_Salt_Wife]

Bronn just murdered her relatives! Everyone believes that he is responsible for her mother (who truly loved her) broken hip and that he is going to kill Tanda now. He threw Falyse out of her own castle and is using Lollys to steal said castle from her sister. And then there's the little matter of giving that poor baby the surname Tanner as a joke because Lollys was raped behind a tanner's shop.

Bronn is one of the worst possible husbands she could have been given to. She would have been better off having never married at all. And so would her whole family. :frown5:

Well, yes. If I recall correctly, Tyrion predicted as much the moment he found out Bronn had been offered Lollys hand in marriage.

Good old Arya. And she told him his face was "burned and ugly" when he asked her what she thought.

She also called Gendry all sorts of terrible stuff and no one would suggest she doesn't like him, deep down.

[brashcandy]

Where did you find this Theon chapter from TWOW?

Check out GRRM's site: georgerrmartin.com or find the link in the WOW section on the board.

I was hoping for a Sansa or Brienne/Jaime chapter, but hey, it's still nice to have new material.

[Lemon Cake]

She's also mad at the villagers (I can't recall the name of the town but it's the village they stay at when they halt their trip up to the Eyrie) for not looking Sandor in the face. Another sign she started viewing him as a person and not some pantomime villain.

[grinch] I think that particular instance, though, was more about her despising their cowardice for not being able to look at his scary, ugly face, than in wanting them to respect Sandor as a person. Arya has no patience for anyone she considers craven, and I think this was just an example of that side of her coming out in full force. I don't really think it was necessarily about Sandor. [/grinch]

That said, I do agree that she came to think of him as a person in other ways, i.e., calling him Sandor instead of the Hound and accidentally leaving him off her list.

[Candor]

Yeah, I wonder if that's a small part of why he's so upset when he hears about the marriage to Tyrion. He knows that there was a chance she would have come with him, but that he was the one responsible for botching it so badly. And then we have Sansa feeling a little regret that she didn't go herself.... Did I mention how necessary it is that they meet again, in TWOW?!! :)

This could be arranged, but not necessarily in the official version of TWOW. :lol:

[brashcandy]

This could be arranged, but not necessarily in the official version of TWOW. :lol:

naughty :P

[Candor]

She also called Gendry all sorts of terrible stuff and no one would suggest she doesn't like him, deep down.

Oh yes. Gendry is a special lunk indeed. :devil: All those gratiuitous muscle descriptions. Mmm.

I was hoping for a Sansa or Brienne/Jaime chapter, but hey, it's still nice to have new material.

I would have liked to read these, but I knew it would never happen, for the same reason as we wouldn't get a Jon or Dany chapter. Because there's too much to be given away by showing us that.

[Candor]

naughty :P

Well I have started writing my own TWoW. xD But the thing is I'm trying to plot it realistically, so meh.

I agree though with what was said. It would be tantamount to throw-the-book-at-the-wall time if Sandor and Sansa never crossed paths again, and all we ever heard of him was him shoveling dirt in Brienne's general direction. :rolleyes:

There would be fire......and blood. :devil:

[Ednawolf]

Well I have started writing my own TWoW. xD But the thing is I'm trying to plot it realistically, so meh.

I agree though with what was said. It would be tantamount to throw-the-book-at-the-wall time if Sandor and Sansa never crossed paths again, and all we ever heard of him was him shoveling dirt in Brienne's general direction. :rolleyes:

There would be fire......and blood. :devil:

Are you going to publish the unofficial TWOW on you know where? You are indeed very naughty!

[brashcandy]

Are you going to publish the unofficial TWOW on fan fiction.net? You are indeed very naughty!

Oooh please, no more talk of the F word. We don't need the Sandor thread being closed down :(

[Candor]

Are you going to publish the unofficial TWOW on _______? You are indeed very naughty!

I already published a chapter on our Sandor Appreciation livejournal. I am going to put it up on [you know where] when I make a few minor corrections (missed a word, etc) xD

Naughty is my middle name. Mmm

And yes, let us speak no more of the f-n-f-c-i-n (you know what)

ETA 2x: Edited so that there is no speaking of a certain website.

[Ednawolf]

In the GoT scene in which Joffrey forces Sansa to view Ned's head, Joffrey tries to provoke her by saying that The Hound called Robb the "knight (or king) of wooden swords" or something like that... Why do you think that Sandor denied remembering having said that? Do you think he was just trying to be sensitive to Sansa's feelings?

[Ednawolf]

Oooh please, no more talk of the F word. We don't need the Sandor thread being closed down :(

Yikes. I edited my post... I wasn't sure if mentioning that site is crossing a line or not.