Most Competent / Incompetent Characters

[Errant Bard]

The difference is that while Manderley hatches and successfully achieves vengeance in incredible ways, Doran comes up with doomed half-assed plans one after another. Sending Oberyn - FAIL, Sending Quentyn - FAIL, raising his heir - FAIL. Doran is incompetant.

Yeah right, he kills three people, maybe a few more, then gets almost killed himself (reminds me of one Oberyn Martell there), and all his eggs are now in the Davos basket, just like Doran's were on Quentyn. When Davos gets eaten by a direwolf, that'll be a pretty FAIL, too. Except more than two men will have died for this fail, unlike Doran's.

[Fearsome Fred]

COMPETENT:

Tyrion: Having slept with, and then strangled, countless whores, he is the most successful serial killer in all Westeros.

Shae: The most competent whore in all Westeros, she managed to convince Tyrion not to strangle her (or anyone else) for almost a year. In the end, however, even she was no match for the whore-devouring Giant of a Lannister.

Aemon: By declaring Tyrion to be a "Giant" (in other words, a monster) he shows more judgment and good taste than 80% of ASOIAF fans.

Shaggy Dog and Summer: By growling at and attacking Tyrion, they show they know a monster when they smell one.

The Dragon of Winterfell: Has hidden himself so effectively, that even ASOIAF fans doubt his existence.

Sansa: Sure, she's made her mistakes. But she can build snow castles and coax little boys off high mountains.

Samwell: Almost unmatched at what he does, which is feeling sorry for himself. I say "almost unmatched" because Tyrion has him beat.

Ilyn Payne: Yes, that head came right off.

Sandor: He can dig graves and mend walls.

Donal Noye: Successfully teaches Jon to stop feeling sorry for himself.

Hodor: Nobody says "Hodor" better.

INCOMPETENT:

Tywin: His attempts to dissuade Tyrion from strangling whores were entirely ineffectual.

Littlefinger: No matter what happens, likes to prance around saying (in effect) "hee hee, everything is proceeding according to my evil plan." Of course, nobody knows what he is talking about. These are sure signs of a complete idiot.

Jaime: A total failure as a villain; he tried and failed to kill a little boy, and that was when he had TWO hands. It's been all downhill since then.

Arya: She can't find her wolf in 4 books - and they're psychically connected...

Ghost: You know he WANTS to growl at Tyrion, but the poor fellow is mute. So he just sits by and watches while Tyrion gives Jon lessons in feeling sorry for himself, leaving Donal Noye to mend the damage later.

[1234567]

I think Tywin gets points on both the competent and incompetent sides. On the one hand, he knew how to plot, how to run a war, and was one heck of a dangerous guy to cross. On the other, he let his dingbat twins get completely out of control, treated the only one of his children who actually had the wits to succeed him so badly that he ended up shooting him, and did absolutely NOTHING to curtail his vicious moron double grandson. Also, he seemed to have a pretty dangerous set of blinders on when it came to bloodlines. I don't think it ever occurred to him that Varys and Littlefinger might be trouble, which is pretty sad for a guy who prides himself on his cunning.

Indeed. Tywin was very good when not in direct power (as he was after the BBW). He was masterful in AGOT and until the BBW.

After the BBW, until his death 3-4 months later, he made some really bad mistakes, that Tyrion points out. Giving titles to LF, pissing off the Tyrells with the marriage of Sansa to Tyrion (if she had married Willas, the North could have been brought to heel much more easily), failing to accept that Tyrion was the legitimate heir to the Rock, not doing more about Joff, trying to get the NW to elect Janos Slynt, allowing Cersei to name Gregor Clegane her champion when Oberyn Martell was in KL, for allowing Tyrion's trial to go ahead (he could have arranged for pie to be "found" in Joff's throat and investigated what happened quietly at a later date) and blatantly announcing his involvement in the RW by marrying off his family to the Freys, and by giving Riverrun to Eammon and Genna. Even she notes that was a dangerous move.

Competent: Littlefinger, Varys and Olenna Tyrell

Incompetent: Where to begin......Ned, Catylen, Robb, Lysa, Cersei, Jaime, The Freys, Ramsay Bolton, The Ironborn, recently Dany etc. etc.

[LadyoftheNorth72]

Doran Martell, to me, is the embodiment of the old country song/saying, "you've got to stand for something, or you'll fall for anything.". He has been out of the active game for so long that he no longer has a clue how to play it. The fact that he would even CONSIDER sending Myrcella and Trystane for a "visit" to KL means that he no longer understands the difference between "visit" and "unrequited hostage handover.". AND he is sending three more potential hostages straight into the clutches of KL. All it will take for that plan to blow up in his face is for Varys to send Mace a raven with a note that reads, "hey I don't know if you've noticed, but you now have your old arch-enemy's daughter in hand's reach, there is a new Septa on the other hill who seems to look a lot like one of the Sand Snakes and awfully attractive for a Septa, and you might want to check out this third odd chick as well..."

[Greyjoy the Reaver]

How in 7 hells??.....

Renly was ready to seize Joffrey and make himself king. He even came to Ned for help. Once Ned made his proclamtion for Stannis. Renly left KL to go to Highgarden and gather his host. Renly is in fact the only Baratheon that I considered to be competent. Had Stannis not killed him using Shadow Magic, Renly and Highgarden would have most definitly take KL and done away with Cersei and her incestual children. Renly would have been a much better king than either Robert or Stannis. Therefore I consider him to have been pretty competent. I mean who could really have predicted being killed by a shadow baby?

[Val the Wildling Princess]

Competent: Davos Seaworth, Kevan Lannister, Mance Rayder, Tywin Lannister (sometimes), Jon Snow (I actually consider all of the remaining Stark children competent, they all have managed to survive without their parents, I'd say they are doing pretty well for being just kids), Meera Reed, Asha and Val. Varys and Littefinger as much as I hate them I have to admit they are excellent players. Jaqen, Qhorin Halfhand, the Queen of thorns...

Incompetent: Edmure Tully, Robb Stark, Robert Baratheon, Cersei Lannister, Joffrey, Doran Martell, Balon Greyjoy and son, Viserys Targaryen and sister :D

[the Scorpion Knight]

Renly was ready to seize Joffrey and make himself king. He even came to Ned for help. Once Ned made his proclamtion for Stannis. Renly left KL to go to Highgarden and gather his host. Renly is in fact the only Baratheon that I considered to be competent. Had Stannis not killed him using Shadow Magic, Renly and Highgarden would have most definitly take KL and done away with Cersei and her incestual children. Renly would have been a much better king than either Robert or Stannis. Therefore I consider him to have been pretty competent. I mean who could really have predicted being killed by a shadow baby?

the only competent baratheon IS stannis

rob was a drunk sloth and renly a vain peacock but stannis is a dour lobster who knows what to do and whom to listen

the only thing renly did was splitting the opposition nothing more

(he had the biggest army of ALL and did what hosting a tournament and NOT marching to KL to crush the Lannisters)

or to quote catlyn: these are the knights of summer and winter is coming

[CJS 2207]

OK, I'll have a whack at this:

Competent: Melisandre............she predicts things.....like assassination attempts......

Incompetent: Mace Tyrell...........but he is very lucky.

Actually, Mel has a pretty spotty track record of predicting things that actually turn out as she foretold. Now Moqorro is a red priest that can get things done.

[ServantOnIce]

I find it disturbing to be the first to mention Bronn, who went from some unknown sellsword sitting in a inn to becoming a lord in like a year's time.

Tyrion's only true friend . . . named his child after him . . Bronn saw opportunity at that Inn and became Lord Bronn of Stokeworth . .

[the Scorpion Knight]

Lord Bronn of Stokeworth . .

Lord Protector sry to correct him but the land and castle belong to Lollys ( but he's in charge )

[brashcandy]

Yeah right, he kills three people, maybe a few more, then gets almost killed himself (reminds me of one Oberyn Martell there), and all his eggs are now in the Davos basket, just like Doran's were on Quentyn. When Davos gets eaten by a direwolf, that'll be a pretty FAIL, too. Except more than two men will have died for this fail, unlike Doran's.

Yes, but the point is Manderly got his revenge, and he didn't have to wait for 15 yrs to see it not happen. Bringing Rickon back and removing the Boltons from power is the icing on the pie, but Manderly is already well fed ;) Doran on the other hand, looks set to endorse the mummer's dragon, Aegon. And that probably won't end too nicely for either Dorne or Aegon.

[Ramsay Gimp]

have they really won the war? they had theyre short moment of glory but in the end they lose HARD

The only truly incompetent Lannister is Cersei (and perhaps Stafford judging from the Battle of Oxcross, but he isn't a major character)

Many people go out of their way in the books to point out what a great Hand Tywin was. He has the right combination of ruthlessness and pragmatism to get things done. He isn't the uber-general some people think he is, but he is a great administrator and politician. And despite what many say, he wasn't blind to Cersei and Joffrey's faults. Remember his conversation with Jaime, where he says he wants to get Tommen away from his mother?

Tyrion, enough said.

Jaime may have been an incompetent bodyguard to Aerys and Robert, but he is beginning to change and take his Kingsguard duties very seriously. He also managed to smash the Tullys in AGOT before Robb showed up, and shows some real diplomatic skills in AFFC and ADWD.

And to me it seems like the War of the 5 Kings ended with the Red Wedding. At that point, Renly, Balon, and Robb had all been killed. Stannis was smashed. The Tyrells and Lannisters were clearly the victors. That doesn't mean shit doesn't start to go very wrong for them, obviously. But whatever conflicts are currently raging in Westeros deserve a new name

[Greyjoy the Reaver]

the only competent baratheon IS stannis

rob was a drunk sloth and renly a vain peacock but stannis is a dour lobster who knows what to do and whom to listen

the only thing renly did was splitting the opposition nothing more

(he had the biggest army of ALL and did what hosting a tournament and NOT marching to KL to crush the Lannisters)

or to quote catlyn: these are the knights of summer and winter is coming

If Stannis is so competent then how come nobody wants to join his cause. Stannis's host would have been crushed by Renly's and he also would have had enough left to take KL. The joust that you speak of was a show of power. He wanted Stannis to see that he had no hope of winning. And he didn't without Mel's shadow baby black magic. When Renly dies much of his host leaves. Only some join with Stannis. Even with what he gets from Renly he is still defeated because Highgarden joins forces with the Lannisters. If Stannis would have bent the knee to Renly the Baratheon's would still sit the Iron Throne. Stannis could have even had his treasured seat at Storm's End that was denied him by Robert. When Stannis marches to KL he leaves Mel behind because the only victories he is winning anywhere are because of her. And the first time he fights without her there, he loses and loses badly. The only competent thing that Stannis does is go the the Wall. And that is only on Davos's advice. From there he try's to take Winterfell in a snow storm and end's up with his army out in the cold eating their own warhorse's.

[the Scorpion Knight]

The only truly incompetent Lannister is Cersei (and perhaps Stafford judging from the Battle of Oxcross, but he isn't a major character)

Many people go out of their way in the books to point out what a great Hand Tywin was. He has the right combination of ruthlessness and pragmatism to get things done. He isn't the uber-general some people think he is, but he is a great administrator and politician. And despite what many say, he wasn't blind to Cersei and Joffrey's faults. Remember his conversation with Jaime, where he says he wants to get Tommen away from his mother?

but he was an disappiontment as a diplomant (and all to often his own ego and pride stood in his way)

(seroiusly why didn't he go to the king to settle this instead of throwing oil into the fire he certainly KNEW that this would start an civil war)

[Evamitchelle]

I put Robert in the Competent list. Although we see him at his worst, he has kept relative peace, for what, 15 years. And yes, some things are done wrong in those years (debt, lots of plotting, and a personal life that is messed up), but as far as a leader, there haven't been any major wars. That seems like a pretty good thing.

There was the Greyjoy Rebellion. But even if the realm was kept afloat for 15 years I suspect its in spite of Robert rather than because of him. I'd say Jon Arryn was the one keeping it together, Robert on the other hand just bankrupted the realm all by himself. Not mentioning that royal bastards can prove very dangerous to a kingdom (see the Blackfyre Rebellion) yet he seems perfectly content to make a new one every year and just lets them do their thing without worrying about them. It's fine that they're mostly young but when they reach their 20s they could have made a great deal of trouble, especially with Robert's trueborn kids not actually being trueborn.

[Queen Cersei I]

Competent: Ned. Done.

All Maesters. Obviously.

Yes, Grand Maester Pycelle's triumph over all of his enemies at King's Landing was a remarkable feat. :leaving:

[Im no Ser]

Doran Martell, to me, is the embodiment of the old country song/saying, "you've got to stand for something, or you'll fall for anything.". He has been out of the active game for so long that he no longer has a clue how to play it. The fact that he would even CONSIDER sending Myrcella and Trystane for a "visit" to KL means that he no longer understands the difference between "visit" and "unrequited hostage handover.". AND he is sending three more potential hostages straight into the clutches of KL. All it will take for that plan to blow up in his face is for Varys to send Mace a raven with a note that reads, "hey I don't know if you've noticed, but you now have your old arch-enemy's daughter in hand's reach, there is a new Septa on the other hill who seems to look a lot like one of the Sand Snakes and awfully attractive for a Septa, and you might want to check out this third odd chick as well..."

But the Dornish death toll in this horrific war sits at single digits. Meanwhile, the rest of the seven kingdoms have gone to hell as rule of law has completely broken down just in time for everyone to starve to death. And his long term plan is ultimately still in play. Doran is extremely competent. Quentyn was a mistake, but aside from the personal cost to Doran, what's the loss to the kingdom? Unlike many other high lords Doran doesn't consider nobles to be worth 1000 smallfolk.

My other vote for competent is Randall Tarly. A sadisitc narrow minded bully for sure, but he's always presented as doing his job well. He's returned some semblance of law to Maidenpool, and is doing it from the front (holding court at the docks, not in his great hall), even the Ironborn respect his prowess as a field commander and Kevan Lannister thinks he'd make a good wartime hand.

[seanbean4lyfe]

COMPETENT:

Tyrion: Having slept with, and then strangled, countless whores, he is the most successful serial killer in all Westeros.

whaaaa? I'm pretty sure he strangled ONE whore...he may be a serial slut but not a serial killer...

Jaime: A total failure as a villain; he tried and failed to kill a little boy, and that was when he had TWO hands. It's been all downhill since then.

I don't think it was Jaime failing, so much as Bran coming out of it. Crippling someone definitely makes you a failure as a villain...

and I think he pushed him out with one hand ;)

[master]

I'd say each character in the books ave had their successes and failiures. But heres what I think.

Daenarys: needs a lot more experience and a decent hand. She's a bit too "nice" when it comes to the game and haveing someone halfway competent like tyrion as hand would probably stabalise her rule. I'd say she's incompent as matters stand.

petyr baelish: I'd say he is among the top two or three players of the game active in westeros. The only problem is that he was willing to risk his life in a duel he had no hope of winning. Even years later he has kissed sansa. That shows a huge weakpoint that could be exploited. So competent until someone successfully uses that weakpoint against him.

eddard stark: he should have never gone to kngs landing. Even if he did go to kings landing he should never have taken his children. He should have qietly resigned from his position of hand and quietly offered his support when stannis claimed the iron throne. He should never have trusted littlefinger. He, at the very least, should have evacuated his daughter before commiting high treason.

[thetitansbastard]

Tyrion: Having slept with, and then strangled, countless whores, he is the most successful serial killer in all Westeros.

That would be awesome... do you have any supporting quotes you could post? preciate ya