Barristan vs Jaime vs Loras.

[Talleyrand]

Ok you named them, and I think the Lannister forces where pretty well represented, yes Tyrell were the main but my point was that Edmure did not crush them and make them irrelevant. They didn't even regroup, they just picked up and went to KL instead of crossing the Fords.

and my inital question remains: is beating Edmure Tully a feat worthy enough to vault Jamie into the top 5 of dangerous men...

It isn't I was just disputing the claim that Edmure was an awful commander. He knew to take advantage of the choke points and managed to make Clegane retreat which as far as i'm aware no-one else has done in a battle.

[Lord.Snow]

This isn't exactly what Barristan says. Barristan says in Dance that one of the guys he's training is the best natural swordsman he's seen since Jaime Lannister. While this is certainly high praise given Barristan's skill and experience, it's not quite the same as saying that Jaime is the best natural swordsman Barristan has ever witnessed.

Oba: Ok, so Barristan whos the best natuaral swords man you've even seen ?

Barristan : what didnt you read DWD? I just said it was jamie - nver seen anyone so good, until mabe just now this new guy here in mereen

Oba: no, i mean before jamie - like whos the best ever ?

Barristan: what ? i dunno, probably me i guess ?

[Ser Vaunt]

And IIRC Ned is never noted as being a good swordsman, Brandon was the fighter of the family

I think Ned's generally a decent enough fighter, but it's clear he isn't one of the superstars of the realms in terms of combat prowess.

On the subject of Bronn... I'm not sure how well he'd do in one-on-one's, but he shows a good knack for combat and obviously has loads of practical experience. I think he'd do less well in an arena style match, but if you had them fight in an environment he could use to his advantage, he'd excel more at that style of combat.

[JaimeTheMannister]

I guess I'm jaded because in the actual arc of the books I've seen Jamie:

• Get shoved to the ground by a drunken Robert
  
• Get de-horsed and have his helmet turned backwards so he had to stumble off the pitch
  
• Lose a battle and get captured by non-descript Starks
  
• Fail to escape and get captured by non-descript Starks
  
• Get beat by Brienne
  

...and it's only downhill from there

Hate to be cliche but I feel like I have to point out that brienne barely beat jaime and he was shackled.

That being said if jaime still has both hands I think its hard to say who would win between him and barristan buy i woupd give a slight advantage to Selmy just because Jaime holds him on such high regard.

Loras is admittedly a talented knight but inexperienced.

Ser Barristan Selmy first

Ser Jaime Lannister second

Ser Loras Tyrell last

[Barristan the G.O.A.T]

Barristan then Loras then Jamie

Loras isn't even the best sword in his family. Barristan (Prime)> Jamie (two hands) > Garlan > Loras

[Lady Blue Rose]

Young Barristan will crush them both.

2nd position Loras

I dont know why people count Jamie amongst the best. He didnt do anything that special. Just because he is rich, his deeds become more known.

There must be 1000 better knights thn Jamie in Westeros. Sure he isnt bad but he isnt that special. The only special thing he did was, killed the umarmed king.

Push a boy from a window and incest. These are his success stories and yeh he lost a hand but all of these things have nothing to do with

Swords, he did won a melee in a very small age but so what, those are just games plus there must be many squires who have won Melees.

His other record isnt that impressive as well so i dont know what ppl see in him.

Barristan Selmy

Arthur Dayne

Robert Baratheon

They are the big guns, jamie is not amongst them, i dont even consider him to be in the same league.

I get it, you don't like Jaime cause he is a wealthy Lannister. I dislike Lannisters as well. However, I do think that taking away credit from Jaime by assuming he is viewed as a great/ one of the best swordsmen just because he is wealthy is kind of a biased injustice.

From all accounts, Barristan Brienne, Sandor, etc. Jaime is an amazing swordsman, so much so, that even missing one hand, people fear him and think twice before facing him.

This includes Loras (would appreciate someone giving the chapter/page since I don't recall) who put away his sword when one handed Jaime reached for his own.

On this same note, isn't Loras' fame only derived from games and melees (in which he is known to use trickery to win). He is mainly known as the knight of flowers for his amazing displays of costume during the games, not so much his reputation for winning. AND, a lot of his reputation, like Jaime's, comes from being of a wealthy and powerful family.

NOT saying he wouldn't beat Jaime, just saying you can't ignore the fact that ALL characters agree that Jaime is good and discredit him just because he is wealthy and powerful but ignore the fact that a lot of Loras' reputation derives from wealth and power...

[Stannisdasan]

i have to give to jaime, cuz he matched brienne of tarth with his hands tied. Brienne made loras yield at the tourney. also loras himself says his brother garlan is a better swordsman than him.

[Itchyscratch]

Slightly off topic but we know Bronn declines to fight the Mountain to save Tyrion. Would Jaime have taken up the challenge to be Tyrion's champion if he had both hands or would he too have declined?

[Gneisenau]

Slightly off topic but we know Bronn declines to fight the Mountain to save Tyrion. Would Jaime have taken up the challenge to be Tyrion's champion if he had both hands or would he too have declined?

Probably, since Gregor is one of the best fighters in Westeros and has a massive reach advantage.

[binga]

This thread makes me want to fire up assassin's creed brotherhood and go knock some enemies around with my war hammer. I am not sure Loras is even in this conversation, he is clearly very brave though. I think Rhaegar is top 5 in skill but never had that killer instinct required.

[Ramsey+Luwin=Jon]

In an interview with MTV Martin says Jaime would beat Aragorn in a fight stating Jaime is "one of the best fighters in Westorosi history" (paraphrasing). Considering everyone in the age of heroes was meant to be 'super duper', I'd say that makes him pretty good.

[Ramsey+Luwin=Jon]

PS first post. Go on... Give us some credit

[SirRunty]

Barristan and Jaime would both destroy Loras.

Barristan Vs. Jaime would be interesting, I think perhaps Barristan would win in his prime.

[StarkInWinterfell]

Slightly off topic but we know Bronn declines to fight the Mountain to save Tyrion. Would Jaime have taken up the challenge to be Tyrion's champion if he had both hands or would he too have declined?

With two hands, I think he'd have definitely agreed to be Tyrion's champion. Two-handed Jaime was incredibly cocky, he would think he could win. At his prime and with Tyrion's life on the line, I think he would have won too. Whether Cersei and Tywin would have let that happen is a different issue.

[Lee-Sensei]

Loras is very good, but he's not that good.

[Andrew the Raider King!]

If those are the only options, then I will take the old man! I honestly believe that the finest warrior in Westeros was Ned and not only do I think he killed Darry I think he may have injured Selmy. But unlike Robert he was fit for duty and could ride to KL. He also only took six men with him to the TOJ to confront three well known warriors, one of them supposedly the finest warrior in Westeros, in Dayne. Clegane is an underrated warrior, with issues that can be exploited. Jaime is a beast, but a wee bit to cocky to be the finest. Loras is in fact wonderful knight and more than formidable opponent against most anyone, but that is different than beating Selmy or Jaime with 2 hands. OH! And never underestimate Bronn. That Sumbitch is smarter than a whip!

[My friend Alayne Arya mad]

Slightly off topic but we know Bronn declines to fight the Mountain to save Tyrion. Would Jaime have taken up the challenge to be Tyrion's champion if he had both hands or would he too have declined?

If he had both hands he would've championed Tyrion and won imo.

[Andrew the Raider King!]

If he had both hands he would've championed Tyrion and won imo.

The Mountain would have died a very nasty death if he had fought two-handed Jaime.

[Barristan the G.O.A.T]

If those are the only options, then I will take the old man! I honestly believe that the finest warrior in Westeros was Ned and not only do I think he killed Darry I think he may have injured Selmy. But unlike Robert he was fit for duty and could ride to KL. He also only took six men with him to the TOJ to confront three well known warriors, one of them supposedly the finest warrior in Westeros, in Dayne. Clegane is an underrated warrior, with issues that can be exploited. Jaime is a beast, but a wee bit to cocky to be the finest. Loras is in fact wonderful knight and more than formidable opponent against most anyone, but that is different than beating Selmy or Jaime with 2 hands. OH! And never underestimate Bronn. That Sumbitch is smarter than a whip!

When the author describes the character as a decent swordsman how can you still think he is the best? Ned was a great general but average to above average fighter. I honestly believe you refuse to accept facts.

[FloriantheRedFool]

I think even old Barristan would stand a pretty good chance against two-handed Jaime. Are we forgetting that time that he, an unarmed man, killed two armed and armored gold cloaks? Or the time that, with a staff, he was fast enough to hit away a manticore before it stung Daenarys? Or the time he totally kills that guy while wielding only a staff?

Prime vs prime would be a definite Barristan victory; Barristan and the old KG are simply on an entirely different lev than Jaime.