Larry. Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Not to re-open this debate, but I did say earlier that I would write summaries of each of the seven authors considered for the 1961 prize, so I decided to begin with Tolkien, since he was the one discussed most (the others I'll create a separate post for when I review them over the next several weekends). Don't expect universal agreement (or even a majority agreement), but perhaps this will at least clarify my position and maybe others as well on the issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Marquis de Leech Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Not to re-open this debate, but I did say earlier that I would write summaries of each of the seven authors considered for the 1961 prize, so I decided to begin with Tolkien, since he was the one discussed most (the others I'll create a separate post for when I review them over the next several weekends). Don't expect universal agreement (or even a majority agreement), but perhaps this will at least clarify my position and maybe others as well on the issue.One thing that leaps out at me: you refer to Tolkien trying to use the saga voice in prose form. You are aware that the sagas were prose (and not to be confused with Eddaic verse)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry. Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 I was referring to the poetic elements within them, which do exist. I almost brought up the chansons de geste, but the Matter of France, although it influenced some of the Matter of Britain, wasn't as much of a thematic issue. Sorry for the confusion in the draft. Going to edit "novel" in place of "prose" there, as that was my intent and it should clarify things more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The GRRumbler Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 Ai! laurië lantar lassi súrinen, yéni únótimë ve rámar aldaron! Yéni ve lintë yuldar avánier mi oromardi lisse-miruvóreva Andúnë pella, Vardo tellumar nu luini yassen tintilar i eleni ómaryo airetári-lÃrinen. Sà man i yulma nin enquantuva? An sà Tintallë Varda Oiolossëo ve fanyar máryat Elentári ortanë, ar ilyë tier undulávë lumbulë; ar sindanóriello caita mornië i falmalinnar imbë met, ar hÃsië untúpa Calaciryo mÃri oialë. Sà vanwa ná, Rómello vanwa, Valimar! Namárië! Nai hiruvalyë Valimar. Nai elyë hiruva. Namárië! Ah! like gold fall the leaves in the wind, long years numberless as the wings of trees! The years have passed like swift draughts of the sweet mead in lofty halls beyond the West, beneath the blue vaults of Varda wherein the stars tremble in the song of her voice, holy and queenly. Who now shall refill the cup for me? For now the Kindler, Varda, the Queen of the Stars, from Mount Everwhite has uplifted her hands like clouds, and all paths are drowned deep in shadow; and out of a grey country darkness lies on the foaming waves between us, and mist covers the jewels of Calacirya for ever. Now lost, lost to those from the East is Valimar! Farewell! Maybe thou shalt find Valimar. Maybe even thou shalt find it. Farewell! http://youtu.be/WTgwvadr3J0 And people say George is better than Tolkien, yeah right. :rolleyes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grack21 Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 That's not prose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrackerNeil Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 According to this article in The Guardian, C.S. Lewis nominated Tolkien for the Nobel Prize in Literature in 1961. However, the committee passed him over, citing that his prose "has not in any way measured up to storytelling of the highest quality".Thoughts?::shrug::The whole thing is rather subjective, and can change with lightning rapidity. A book can fall in and out of favor due simply to trends or sales or whatever, and I try not to get too riled up over any of it. Consider "Fifty Shades of Grey." It's bad enough that "Twilight" has gotten so much attention, but when a cheap knockoff of a piece of crap can do the same...well, something is seriously wrong with the world of literary review and evaluation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sci-2 Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 well, something is seriously wrong with the world of literary review and evaluation.Or in the midst of their real world lives, some people just wanted to get their, er, feet wet for a spell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. E Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 Or in the midst of their real world lives, some people just wanted to get their, er, feet wet for a spell. :ack: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sci-2 Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 :ack:?(Note sure what you're thinking. In my post, search-replace "feet" with "vaginas".) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmastar Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 Didnt read the thread... but tolken is kinda like dylan.. awesome story/song.... sucks at delivering Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mladen Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 According to this article in The Guardian, C.S. Lewis nominated Tolkien for the Nobel Prize in Literature in 1961. However, the committee passed him over, citing that his prose "has not in any way measured up to storytelling of the highest quality".Thoughts?This is scandalous. But the year in question is 1961, and that year Ivo Andric won the Nobel prize for literature for his masterpiece novel BRIDGE ON DRINA...I am sympathetic to Tolkin`s work, but Mr. Andric deserved it, who have read that book certainly knows it. And, also, for me it`s patriotic reason...But, shame on them for rejecting Tolkien Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myshkin Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 Shame on Lewis for using his position to nominate his buddy rather than a writer who deserved the prize. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zach H Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Shame on Lewis for using his position to nominate his buddy rather than a writer who deserved the prize.Reminds me of the time MJH nominated Terry Brooks for the World Fantasy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sci-2 Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Shame on Lewis for using his position to nominate his buddy rather than a writer who deserved the prize.I'm not sure "deserved" is the right word. Suitable, given the ideals of the prize, might be better.I mean surely Stephen King scaring the bejesus out of me takes a certain amount of craft, but this isn't something that the Nobel awards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myshkin Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 I'm not sure "deserved" is the right word. Suitable, given the ideals of the prize, might be better.Hmm, I'm pretty sure "deserved" in this context means the exact same thing as "suitable, given the ideals of the prize". If Tolkien was not a "suitable" candidate, then he did not "deserve" the prize. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sci-2 Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 When you say "shame on Lewis" it makes me think you believe other writers are more "deserving" because their craft was better.This may be the case, but I don't think Tolkien - for all his flaws - is a terrible writer. There's something to be said for writing that has literary merit but also appeals to people from so many different walks of life.It's the same way I look at Steven King. What he does, how he sets things up and makes you afraid of some stuff that, out context, sounds fucking stupid - that is something I'm not convinced many "literary" writers could do.Lewis likely felt that Tolkien's strengths meant he was deserving of the prize. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grack21 Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 If you don't love The Similarion, I'll kill you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sci-2 Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 If you don't love The Similarion, I'll kill you.This isn't another book by your fan-fiction writer friend Wolfe, is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grack21 Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Please be joking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sci-2 Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Please be joking.I'm just saying, we know your friend hard on Books of a New...Moon?...but you can stop pushing him so hard. We get it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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