Melq Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Baby Aegon, The Hound, Ramsay Bolton, Jon Connington, etc. would like a word with you. And those guys aren't even undead. We were legitimately led to believe they were dead - told point blank, in fact - only to find out the opposite.The Hound- We are not 100% sure that hes alive yet, but then again GRRM is giving us hints ( Quiet Isle, Strange) that he might be alive, same with unGregor.Ramsay Bolton- We thought this guy died because of Ser Rodrik, later we find that hes alive, no big lie to me.Baby Aegon&Connington - I agree with you on this.Stannis have high chances of being alive I agree, even if the battle is lost, he could have escaped or be captive, and Ramsay already lied once, he could do it again. but I think different, in this case GRRM keep giving us hints that hes going to die, similar to the hints we got of Robb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
So1ar Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 so does this mean that Massey will be another POV character? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7V3N Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 The Hound- We are not 100% sure that hes alive yet, but then again GRRM is giving us hints ( Quiet Isle, Strange) that he might be alive, same with unGregor.Ramsay Bolton- We thought this guy died because of Ser Rodrik, later we find that hes alive, no big lie to me.Baby Aegon&Connington - I agree with you on this.Stannis have high chances of being alive I agree, even if the battle is lost, he could have escaped or be captive, and Ramsay already lied once, he could do it again. but I think different, in this case GRRM keep giving us hints that hes going to die, similar to the hints we got of Robb.It is not about lying, it is about deception. If the masses (readers) believed someone was dead, then he is presented alive I would consider it deception by GRRM.so does this mean that Massey will be another POV character?I think GRRM said no new POVs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jarl the climber Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Baby Aegon, The Hound, Ramsay Bolton, Jon Connington, etc. would like a word with you. And those guys aren't even undead. We were legitimately led to believe they were dead - told point blank, in fact - only to find out the opposite.The Golden Company (10,000 men, not 20, and scattered across the Stormlands, not concentrated at Storm's End) has a greater purpose than that of any normal sellsword: to regain their lost lands in Westeros. That goal is intrinsicly linked with seating the "rightful" heir on the Iron Throne. It's doubtful that Stannis would be able to turn them away from Aegon, let alone link up with them or receive any benefit from them whatsoever in his current, life-or-death situation. Salladhor has abandoned Stannis and his whereabouts are unknown. If he returned, knowing Stannis, he would probably be executed. The figure I cited included the sailors. Some of the officers of the Golden Company have an interest in putting Aegon on the throne, Jon Connington qorked with them 12 years ago but is not familiar with a lot of the them, neither he or Argon is impressed with their commander, Harry Strickland, who advocated against attacking Storms End. Certianly most of the common soldiers would be enticed by the offer of a large amount of gold and land, some of the officers as well, certianly an offer will have some sort of effect on them.Salla Saan is a mercenary, he served Stannis for gold, which Stannis couldn't pay, he did not swear himself to Stannis, it is Stannis who has an obligation to pay him irregardless of whether he returns to his service, Saan has a written agreement and Stannis must honor it or the Iron Bank would lose faith in him. Usually those are the things banks want you to do when they bail somebody out manty times they require it.Right now the Reach is being invaded by the Ironborn and is also facing the prospect of fighting the Golden Company and whatever allies they can muster in the Stormlands. Maintaining there forces in the feild is a considerable expense in itself, the Ironborn has disrupted their trade are the Tyrells willing to squader their reserves to support King Tommen? How much are Lannister finances based on the gold that the crown is repaying them, we have no idea of what the gold mines produce, Robb did pillage some of the mines. We have no way of guessing how much the lannisters have socked away but a good part of it is on loan to the crown. The Lannisters have also had to bear the expense of supporting large armies the past 2-3 years. Robb did inflict some pain on them with his raid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Octarina Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 so does this mean that Massey will be another POV character?It's not necessary - wherever he went, he might come across Arya, Tyrion, Victarion, Barristan, Daenerys... not to mention that his journey isn't the important part, only its results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Commander Jaimie Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 The Iron Bank is surely aware of the the situation in Essos of the present disposition of sellsword companies. They also know that one of the most likely things Stannis is to do with the money they are providing is to hire mercenaries. The Iron Banks is probably right now looking for ways to assist him with that endeavor as they want their client to succeed. Massey may receive some assistance and advice from the Iron Bank while in Braavos.I wanna mention that I work for a bank and I think it is a shame we don't off those types of client services. I wish we could get someone a checking/savings, debit card, online banking and a mercenary company to use to take your nephew's throne. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Commander Jaimie Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 But in the sample chapter Stannis makes a point about Justin thinking he may be dead. Do you think Stannis fakes his own death for some reason? Or he lets it be believed that he is dead and then suddenly has 20,000 sellswords plus the North? I think he is planning something, and that chapter pointed to how clever and capable Stannis is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Octarina Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 But in the sample chapter Stannis makes a point about Justin thinking he may be dead. Do you think Stannis fakes his own death for some reason? Or he lets it be believed that he is dead and then suddenly has 20,000 sellswords plus the North? I think he is planning something, and that chapter pointed to how clever and capable Stannis is.Didn't he talk to Justin right after finding out about the Karstark scheme and learning that those ravens can fly to Winterfell? I think that's the main clue that he had already formed a plan to use the ravens to fake his own death, which ultimately leads to Ramsay's letter to Jon Snow, and Massey maybe finding out about Stannis's "death" when he reaches the Wall on the way to Essos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheeMikeHoncho Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 Sellswords? He only need recruit one person to bring down Cersei - Arya Stark.Cercei already has a date with her "little" brother! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bear Grylls of Skagos Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 I am sure he won't be able to hire 20,000 men. He may get about half that number. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brucolac Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 He need 4-5 times that number for their loans to pay off though which is part of the absurdity. When the offer was made, Casterly Rock, Highgarden and Dorne all seem to be in alliance against him which means nearly 100,000 men as opponents-they have no way of knowing Dorne is going to turn on the Lannisters but even when that happens they are still just another enemy of Stannis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bastard of Walton Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 I like to think the wildlings, under Jon's command, may come to help Stannis. I know Ramsey's letter said otherwise, but I dont see Stannis drad.Unless he died to save Reek for some reason? We know they are together, yet Ramsey said he didnt have his Reek. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Damian Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 I think Massey might be the ticket for Arya and Tyrion and the Second Sons back to Westeros, along with them, Mormont etc. Dany, after this"mental breakdown" in flying off with Drogon, might say, screw this, i am going home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice Turtle Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 I think Massey might be the ticket for Arya and Tyrion and the Second Sons back to Westeros, along with them, Mormont etc. Dany, after this"mental breakdown" in flying off with Drogon, might say, screw this, i am going home.So you think Tyrion may return to Westeros without meeting Dany? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7V3N Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 So you think Tyrion may return to Westeros without meeting Dany?I think that is why he recruited the Second Sons. She rode off with a dragon. He has no idea if she is even alive--most assume she is dead and some claim to have witnessed her fall. Tyrion has plans to get back to Westeros and (I assume) take the West for Aegon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice Turtle Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 I think that is why he recruited the Second Sons. She rode off with a dragon. He has no idea if she is even alive--most assume she is dead and some claim to have witnessed her fall. Tyrion has plans to get back to Westeros and (I assume) take the West for Aegon.Maybe, but living dragons are in Mereen, after being obsessed with them whole his life and being so close, surely he can't leave before seeing one. Besides it depends on his belief that Aegon may be able oppose Lannisters and Tyrells. And I'm not sure he really thinks that, and there is still a chance Dany may oppose her nephew. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7V3N Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 Maybe, but living dragons are in Mereen, after being obsessed with them whole his life and being so close, surely he can't leave before seeing one. Besides it depends on his belief that Aegon may be able oppose Lannisters and Tyrells. And I'm not sure he really thinks that, and there is still a chance Dany may oppose her nephew.But since he thinks (if she is alive) she will join her "nephew" Aegon in his campaign in Westeros, as he advised, then why would he not see to the opportunity to claim his birthright that has been so long held from him? He is already a friend to Aegon and has shown to be in on their cause. Aegon would surely reward Tyrion with the lands in the West if he conquered them and joined Aegon. Maybe not all the lands since the GC will surely want some, but he mostly just promised the Second Sons gold.Aegon has the GC, and with the Tyrell's taking more power in KL, Dorne will jump to Aegon's aid. Now add in all the Targaryen loyalists still in Westeros. Aegon has a strong army, the Lannisters have no leader, the Faith is at the throat of the Iron Throne, Stannis and Bolton are (most believe) still at it in the North. Aegon actually has the most impressive force and now the most defensible castle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faint Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 There is some evidence that Tyrion actually fooled 'Aegon Targaryen' into invading Westeros without Daenerys; note the game of cyvasse they had with one another. I'm not here suggesting he is actually opposed to Aegon altogether but his thoughts in Tyrion VII (i.e., Chapter 27) do not make him appear as well intentioned as some would have it.Also, it must be said, it might be possible for Tyrion to figure out that Aegon is a fake, if he hasn't already. He's been privy to a whole lot of evidence (i.e., the clothes he was given by Illyrio, the statue of the youth in the gardens, Serra's appearance, the age discrepancy, Illyrio's missing motivation, Varys' curiously shaved head, etc.). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melq Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 There is some evidence that Tyrion actually fooled 'Aegon Targaryen' into invading Westeros without Daenerys; note the game of cyvasse they had with one another. I'm not here suggesting he is actually opposed to Aegon altogether but his thoughts in Tyrion VII (i.e., Chapter 27) do not make him appear as well intentioned as some would have it.I have thought of this before too, but I believe in this case Tyrion made a mistake due to ignorance in the events at Westeros and gave a good advice to Aegon without knowing, because right now with the Mad Queen/The Trial/ The Faith/Eurons/Iron Bank, Aegon has good chances of turning a lot of southern lords/Dorne/The Faith to his cause, instead of losing several months begging to Dany. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faint Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 Yes, but, if he can't get her on his side and the dragons aren't convinced, what good is everything else? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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