Gala Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Considering Ned, Howland and friends defeated Dawn, I doubt it shattered all other swords. Have we been told explicitly what happened to it? I would have thought either Ned or Howland did something with it considering they were the only two to survive the Tower of Joy. It'd be funny as hell if the sword Hodor was using north of the Wall was Dawn.Didn't Ned bring the Dawn to Daynes? I thought he did, at least I remember it that way, need to check. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Duke Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Didn't Ned bring the Dawn to Daynes? I thought he did, at least I remember it that way, need to check.Probably, I just didn't remember that passage. A downside of reading the 5 books in 3 weeks is that there was a loooooot of information to process in a short amount of time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sky333 Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 I repeat, Ashara cannot be Jon's mother. In ADwD, Barristan says that he once loved her, but that her "daughter had been stillborn" and she killed herself shortly thereafter. Unless he's been lied to, but it seems like GRRM is trying to get people away from the belief that Ashara could be Jon's mother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Revan Baratheon Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 One question guys.Who decides which Dayne has proven himself worthy of the 'Sword of the morning' title as well as getting Dawn..Someone from within the family or outside? Or is there a vote taken by the family members..?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rose of Winterfell Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 I repeat, Ashara cannot be Jon's mother. In ADwD, Barristan says that he once loved her, but that her "daughter had been stillborn" and she killed herself shortly thereafter. Unless he's been lied to, but it seems like GRRM is trying to get people away from the belief that Ashara could be Jon's mother.I think a lot of people assume Barristan has been lied to. It's possible even that the Dayne's spread this talk of a stillborn girl around and sent the baby to be raised/fostered somewhere else. Just because Arthur is all honest and honourable doesn't mean they all are I suppose.Ashara could also have had more than one pregnancy-if she is indeed Lemore I find this plausible-I'm sure Tyrion said at least three times that her stretch marks showed she'd been pregnant 'at least once'. I don't know if that means she has an excessive amount or what. So there could have been a girl by whoever dishonoured her at Harrenhal, and then a boy with someone else. Or they could have had the same father. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sky333 Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Rose, I suppose that's true, but it just seems unnecessarily complicated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Know Face Man Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Im not sure if you have to be a Dayne to hold Dawn.. Where does it say that?? I have not found anything to say you have to be a Dayne to hold Dawn.Maybe Ned gets Dawn because he beat Arthur, If you beat the Sword in the Morning maybe you get Dawn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pliskin Posted February 22, 2012 Author Share Posted February 22, 2012 If you beat the Sword in the Morning maybe you get Dawn.Lol, Dawn is not the Elder Wand :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Im not sure if you have to be a Dayne to hold Dawn.. Where does it say that?? I have not found anything to say you have to be a Dayne to hold Dawn.Maybe Ned gets Dawn because he beat Arthur,If you beat the Sword in the Morning maybe you get Dawn.It's the "ancestral greatsword of House Dayne." Meaning that it's been passed on through the Daynes for generations. That the Daynes' sigil and the name of their castle both pay homage to Dawn seems to indicate that the sword and the house are inextricably linked. There's an SSM where Martin explicitly says that "certain men of HOUSE DAYNE who are proved worthy of wielding Dawn" may become the Sword of the Morning. So it does look like Dawn and the Daynes go hand in hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FanTasy Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 I repeat, Ashara cannot be Jon's mother. In ADwD, Barristan says that he once loved her, but that her "daughter had been stillborn" and she killed herself shortly thereafter. Unless he's been lied to, but it seems like GRRM is trying to get people away from the belief that Ashara could be Jon's mother.Possibly. But maybe Barristan was one of the 'unreliable narrators' GRRM tortures his readers with :bang: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Know Face Man Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 It's the "ancestral greatsword of House Dayne." Meaning that it's been passed on through the Daynes for generations. That the Daynes' sigil and the name of their castle both pay homage to Dawn seems to indicate that the sword and the house are inextricably linked. There's an SSM where Martin explicitly says that "certain men of HOUSE DAYNE who are proved worthy of wielding Dawn" may become the Sword of the Morning. So it does look like Dawn and the Daynes go hand in hand.thanks for pointing that out, I wasn't sure. the main reason I wasn't sure is we only know of 2 people to carry Dawn. Both Daynes. but we don't know where or who had Dawn for like 1000s of years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alienarea Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 He's the son of Arthur and Ashara's brother, whoever he was.This is an original thought ;-) Both parents are male. Or do you want to imply that Arthur is female since Ashara's brother is obviously male?Sorry, couldn't resist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fish321 Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 As much as I believe the R+L=J theory I have always liked the ides of Jon being Ned and Ashara's son better, especially now that Ashara may be alive although Jon may be dead. Jon has based his life and values on Ned being his father and he seems proud of it even if he hates being a bastard, the Stark lineage, words and honor seem to mean something to him. Imagine what it would mean to him to find his mother alive. I don't think it would be so bad if we end up with Aegon as the PWWP, Dany as the mother of Dragons, and Jon wielding Dawn as the SoM after meeting his mother Ashara/Lemore. Im not going to argue about all the prophecies but I think this gives satisfying worth to the amount of time we have spent with him. the AA reborn thing, the PWWP thing and Jon being a Targ are all fine but it doesn't really feel like any of those things would matter very much to Jon. He wants to fight the Others (Dawn may come into play), find out who his mother is (Ashara), and uphold Stark honor. It would be a good direction for his story to go should he live Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoungGriff the Conqueror Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 Lol, Dawn is not the Elder Wand :DAn anagram for Dawn is wand. So mayhaps it is... :dunno: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rheagar Prime Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 i doubt it noone even knows what ashura did with it after ned presented it to her and told her that he killed her bro. IF It is though then wow it being made from a fallen star just had the metaphorical meaning all along. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howling Mad Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 good catch! The "pale as milkglass" sure is intriguing...I want to see that thing in action! (just not in Dorkstar's hands please)Dorkstar :bowdown: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nymeria's Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 As pointed out in another thread. Septa Lemore and Ashara Dayne are not the same person. Tyrion speaks about Ashara's hair and eyes and Septa Lemore does not have those features. I believe Ashara's eyes are purple and Lemore's is not. (Please correct me if I'm wrong)However, maybe Lemore is a Faceless Man, like Arya soon will be, then she can be whatever she wants to be. In this case, she could possibly, perhaps be Ashara Dayne. Since this is a crackpot theory, I have added my crackpot 2 cents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corbon Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 As pointed out in another thread. Septa Lemore and Ashara Dayne are not the same person. Tyrion speaks about Ashara's hair and eyes and Septa Lemore does not have those features. I believe Ashara's eyes are purple and Lemore's is not. (Please correct me if I'm wrong)Ok, you are wrong.Lemore's eye colour is unknown and Lemore does have the same hair as Ashara.I'm pretty sure Tyrion never speaks of Ashara - I assume you mean Barristan.Go read some more in related threads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vahhagar Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 I am one of the cracpots out there that don't believe in the R+L=J theory I think Ashara Dayne + Eddard Stark = Jon and through his mother he can claim the the title the sword of the morning as the sword is not hereditary but bestowed apon the best fighter of house Dayne and would love it if Dawn turned out to be lightbringer. Jon fullfilled the Nisa Nisa requirement when he killed (or led to her) Ygrette's death Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vahhagar Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 I repeat, Ashara cannot be Jon's mother. In ADwD, Barristan says that he once loved her, but that her "daughter had been stillborn" and she killed herself shortly thereafter. Unless he's been lied to, but it seems like GRRM is trying to get people away from the belief that Ashara could be Jon's mother.Sir Barristan could be mistaken when Eddard took Jon after Ashara killed herself he could have spreaded a rumour that she had a stilborn girl when really she had Jon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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