Stannis Baratheon becoming a Northman

[Persicaria]

Theon won't die he will be taken to the heart trees, but some how he will survive. GRRM has constantly since the Kings Moot been repeating that there is only one way a Kings Moot can be over turned. The precedence case is where the son of the king was off far a away when is father was away and a Kings Moot was held without him, on his return the King that was crowned was murdered and he was crowned in his place. Essentially Theon is needed to overthrow Euron, I don't feel GRRM would mention it so much just to take Theon's head off.

Considering Theon's State, I doubt the Iron born will be to eager to adopt a broken man, with half his fingers and possibly no manhood. Asha could still dispute the King's Moot though if she were to bring Theon's "off spring." Theon himself will probably never be king of the Iron born, but if he had begotten a "son" on the Lord Stark's last daughter "Arya" the kid could be a potential candidate. Then the Iron Born could be persuaded to back his Protector who will give up the throne when the boy comes of age. Of course, this theory is a very loose one and presumptuous. It could only work if Jeyne was pregnant with a boy and could in fact convince enough people that she was carrying Theon's child, or if they could get someone with actual credibility to back the claim such as Aeron. Asha would also need to get enough of the vote to act as protector/governor until the boy comes of age.

I just don't see many people looking at Theon and saying: gee that guy tried to take a castle he couldn't hold, was tortured half to death, and looks like he has one foot in the grave. Now, there's a guy I want to lead us.

[Jon Weirgaryen]

If he's not eating at all, we'd have read more about it... Asha dines in the king's tent and only once did she observe Stannis not touching his food, iirc.

Sorry this is no more than another iIrc: Davos in Clash + Jon in Dance also notice he and Mel do not touch their food. My re-read is at the end of ASoS and very slow. May be I'll go Stannis-food hunting after that, if necessary.

[Thucydides]

Great thread. Good to see it get bumped.

Here's my theory: Stannis is going to execute Theon in front of the Weirwood tree in the company of the northern lords and chieftains on his side. Bran will use this as an opportunity to communicate to Stannis that Lord Eddard Stark died declaring for him. This will change Stannis's attitude toward the Old Gods, since he sees their power, and it will ingratiate Stannis to the North, because it will tell them three things: (1) where Ned stood, (2) that Ned died for it, and (3) that the Old Gods favor Stannis as well.

Stannis hit rock bottom at the end of the end of ACoK. The wheel of fortune is turning, and Stannis will ride it back to the top.

[aryagonnakill#2]

Great thread. Good to see it get bumped.

Here's my theory: Stannis is going to execute Theon in front of the Weirwood tree in the company of the northern lords and chieftains on his side. Bran will use this as an opportunity to communicate to Stannis that Lord Eddard Stark died declaring for him. This will change Stannis's attitude toward the Old Gods, since he sees their power, and it will ingratiate Stannis to the North, because it will tell them three things: (1) where Ned stood, (2) that Ned died for it, and (3) that the Old Gods favor Stannis as well.

Stannis hit rock bottom at the end of the end of ACoK. The wheel of fortune is turning, and Stannis will ride it back to the top.

Stannis already knows that, Ned sent him many letters.

[Thucydides]

Stannis already knows that, Ned sent him many letters.

Ned sends him letters to inquire about his follow up on Jon Arryn's investigation, but he doesn't figure out the incest until very shortly before Robert Baratheon dies (indeed, it's his discovery that prompts Cersei to take action against Robert). The only letter that Ned sent declaring for Stannis was intercepted by Cersei and shown to Sansa (AGoT p528).

Furthermore, Stannis gives zero indication that Ned declared for him when dealing with Catelyn or Jon. If he had a letter to prove it, he'd use it. Stannis does not know that Ned declared for him.

The only characters living who know this are Varys, Littlefinger, Cersei, Sandor, Barristan, Boros Blount, Maryn Trant, and Sansa Stark (though Sansa does not know LFs role in it). There's a royal steward, Lannister guards, and Gold Cloaks, but they're non-entities. Mercella and Tommen are there, but they likely don't understand what's going on. Jamie, Tyrion, and Illyrio may have heard 2nd hand. BR and Bran have probably figured it out using their powers. And Alliser Thorne may have learned from Janos Slynt. That's the total tally on living characters who know that Ned declared for Stannis.

The confession that the Lannisters force out of Ned is "I plotted to depose and murder his son and seize the throne for myself" (AGoT p701). They don't want people to know that Ned declared for Stannis.

[Nyrhex]

Stannis already knows that, Ned sent him many letters.

TV show. In the books Ned sent one letter asking him to cut short his visit to Dragonstone, and to reclaim his seat on the small council. The second letter was intercepted. Stannis knows only what he knew before leaving KL, and what he can guess from the news Saan brings him.

Ned never mentions anything about the Jon Arryn case, because he does not know where Stannis stands about it.

“Will you summon Lord Stannis back from Dragonstone?”

“Not yet,” Ned said. “Not until I have a better notion of what this is all about and where he stands.”

The matter nagged at him. Why did Stannis leave? Had he played some part in Jon Arryn’s murder? Or was he afraid? Ned found it hard to imagine what could frighten Stannis Baratheon, who had once held Storm’s End through a year of siege, surviving on rats and boot leather while the Lords Tyrell and Redwyne sat outside with their hosts, banqueting in sight of his walls.

It struck him suddenly that he might return to Winterfell by sea. Ned was no sailor, and ordinarily would have preferred the kingsroad, but if he took ship he could stop at Dragonstone and speak with Stannis Baratheon. Pycelle had sent a raven off across the water, with a polite letter from Ned requesting Lord Stannis to return to his seat on the small council. As yet, there had been no reply, but the silence only deepened his suspicions. Lord Stannis shared the secret Jon Arryn had died for, he was certain of it. The truth he sought might very well be waiting for him on the ancient island fortress of House Targaryen.

“Twenty, and you will command,” Ned said. Porther was a brave man, but headstrong. He wanted someone more solid and sensible to

keep watch over his daughters.

“As you wish, m’lord,” Tom said. “Can’t say I’ll be sad to see the back of this place. I miss the wife.”

“You will pass near Dragonstone when you turn north. I need you to deliver a letter for me.”

Tom looked apprehensive. “To Dragonstone, m’lord?” The island fortress of House Targaryen had a sinister repute.

“Tell Captain Qos to hoist my banner as soon as he comes in sight of the island. They may be wary of unexpected visitors. If he is reluctant, offer him whatever it takes. I will give you a letter to place into the hand of Lord Stannis Baratheon. No one else. Not his steward, nor the captain of his guard, nor his lady wife, but only Lord Stannis himself.”

“As you command, m’lord.”

[Thucydides]

Good catch on the letters from Ned, Nyrhex. I knew I had it on the letter not arriving, but I'd forgotten how reluctant Ned was to bother Stannis.

[aryagonnakill#2]

Well I can admit when I am wrong, I seem to have confused the show and the book.

[Thucydides]

No worries. Everybody does it. Shoot, I'm half-scared to watch the show again after my latest reread for fear it will jumble everything up.

[Dragonstoned]

Pretty clear foreshadowing from GRRM tbh.

Stannis is pure iron, black and hard and strong, yes, but brittle, the way iron gets. He'll break before he bends.

Stannis is iron = Iron Stan / Iron Man = Iron Man is Tony Stark = Starks are northmen = Stannis is also a northman.

Seems legit imo.

[Stan the Man Baratheon]

Stannis is iron = Iron Stan / Iron Man = Iron Man is Tony Stark = Starks are northmen = Stannis is also a northman.

Seems legit imo.

/thread.

[Nyrhex]

Pretty clear foreshadowing from GRRM tbh.

Stannis is iron = Iron Stan / Iron Man = Iron Man is Tony Stark = Starks are northmen = Stannis is also a northman.

Seems legit imo.

Seems legit.

[Bright Blue Eyes]

Pretty clear foreshadowing from GRRM tbh.

Stannis is iron = Iron Stan / Iron Man = Iron Man is Tony Stark = Starks are northmen = Stannis is also a northman.

Seems legit imo.

Except that Donal Noye is full of shit there. Robert the true steel? No, just no. Renly copper? True, but he based that estimation on an eight-year-old he has last seen fifteen years ago. Stannis doesn't bend? Except to Davos and Jon on page, and some more off page, when their advice makes sense.

Honestly, the only reason Donal Noye's statement gets any credit at all is the "wise, old, dead mentor" trope.

[aryagonnakill#2]

Except that Donal Noye is full of shit there. Robert the true steel? No, just no. Renly copper? True, but he based that estimation on an eight-year-old he has last seen fifteen years ago. Stannis doesn't bend? Except to Davos and Jon on page, and some more off page, when their advice makes sense.

Honestly, the only reason Donal Noye's statement gets any credit at all is the "wise, old, dead mentor" trope.

I'm not so sure he was wrong about Robert, didn't he finish the statement by saying that if you hang it up on a wall after a while it will go to rust? Even if he didn't say that it is still true that steal turns to rust after a while.

[Jslay427]

Stannis Baratheon doesn't become a Northman, Northman become Stannis Baratheon (or try to anyway).

[Thucydides]

Stannis Baratheon can cut through butter with a hot knife.

[Jslay427]

Stannis Baratheon cried once. His tears became known as the Trident.

[Thucydides]

Stannis Baratheon once kicked a horse in the chin. Its descendants are known today as giraffes.

[LuisDantas]

(...)

Now some things I said can probably be well off, but is Stannis a Northman in the making?

Heck, no. He lacks the stuff for that.

[Thucydides]

Stannis Baratheon doesn't read books. He stares them down until he gets the information that he wants.