FittleLinger Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 Truth. Funny how -- just for a minute there, we can assume that Jon was the rightful king of Westeros.Now he is getting stabbed by jerks like Bowen Marsh.Well, he can't get reborn amidst smoke and salt without dying first... the world needed Bowen or someone like him.And yet I still think Jon's arc won't be "king", at least not in the general sense. He won't sit on the iron throne, his arc is Ice and Fire, not Game of Thrones... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gala Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 And yet I still think Jon's arc won't be "king", at least not in the general sense. He won't sit on the iron throne, his arc is Ice and Fire, not Game of Thrones...I share your thoughts. I also think he is much more than just king on the iron throne. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Wolf Smith Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 Truth. Funny how -- just for a minute there, we can assume that Jon was the rightful king of Westeros.Now he is getting stabbed by jerks like Bowen Marsh.If you want more of that theory go to R + L = J, its often a topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
otherbeef Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 what was Jon thinking when he planned to march on Winterfell with his army of wildlings? If he truly believed the letter and that Stannis was dead, that would obviously mean Stannis' force failed to defeat the Boltons. (although obviously the letter's origins and accuracy are in question)So if Jon knew this, how did he expect to take a well manned Winterfell with only the help of largely untrained wildlings (a similar group that Stannis pretty easily defeated in the open field nonetheless) or did Jon actually believe to letter to be BS? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lebronn Jaime Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 So if Jon knew this, how did he expect to take a well manned Winterfell with only the help of largely untrained wildlings (a similar group that Stannis pretty easily defeated in the open field nonetheless) or did Jon actually believe to letter to be BS?The letter implied that Ramsay was on his way to the Wall to retrieve the people he'd demanded Jon turn over to him. I have no idea how Jon expected to fight the Bolton army in the field with a force of wildlings, but I think we can assume he may have discussed some kind of strategy with Tormund (it wouldn't take 2 hours just to decide that Jon would take the wildlings south while Tormund led rangers north). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dornishman's Wife Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 That's my take as well. Just want to add to the question of whether Jon believed the letter to be BS: Probably not. Jon at least believes the claim that Stannis is dead: Shortly before his Caesaring, he thinks to himself that he should go talk to Selyse, because "she has a right to know her husband is dead". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Great Winter Knight Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 Was it me or did Jane's mom seem like she was in on the red wedding, or at least was glad that the event took place?I guess it might just be an act to help protect the family now that its back in the fold of the King. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lebronn Jaime Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 Was it me or did Jane's mom seem like she was in on the red wedding, or at least was glad that the event took place?In AFFC she says that if she had known about the Red Wedding she wouldn't have let her son Raynald go to The Twins. Her role in Tywin's plan to deliver her daughter to Robb's bed and make sure he and Jeyne had no children. As for her seeming contempt for Robb Stark, it's up to you to decide whether she was being genuine or not. She knew he was doomed, or, at the very least, that Tywin planned to have him killed somehow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Great Winter Knight Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 Ok so I think I missed something in the first readings of the books. Why does Dany put so much stock in the premintions of the warlocks and of the old crone that tricked her into thinking she would be back Dany's moon and stars? To me I would have a hard time believing anything they would say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FittleLinger Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 Ok so I think I missed something in the first readings of the books. Why does Dany put so much stock in the premintions of the warlocks and of the old crone that tricked her into thinking she would be back Dany's moon and stars? To me I would have a hard time believing anything they would say.Well first, she has seen those entities really have power.Second, the Undying's bullshit is full of really true moments and some of them actually turn out exactly the way they show it to her. And the best lies come with a nugget of truth in them. By the way there is an awesome thread (by tze, I think) called "A House of Lies", search for it, it discusses exactly the undying and their "lies".And third, she is but a foolish little girl (not in the sarcastic sense she uses it, but for real). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Great Winter Knight Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 Well first, she has seen those entities really have power.Second, the Undying's bullshit is full of really true moments and some of them actually turn out exactly the way they show it to her. And the best lies come with a nugget of truth in them. By the way there is an awesome thread (by tze, I think) called "A House of Lies", search for it, it discusses exactly the undying and their "lies".And third, she is but a foolish little girl (not in the sarcastic sense she uses it, but for real).True she is a little girl, but I guess if enough bullshit is thrown on the wall a mona lisa will appear. It just amazes me how much stock she takes in vision that people that actively try and hurt or kill her.I just don't understand why they would try and bring her down and when they fail, they tell her to be weary of future events rather then let her run head first into them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FittleLinger Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 True she is a little girl, but I guess if enough bullshit is thrown on the wall a mona lisa will appear. It just amazes me how much stock she takes in vision that people that actively try and hurt or kill her.I just don't understand why they would try and bring her down and when they fail, they tell her to be weary of future events rather then let her run head first into them.There is speculation that the various prophets are making their prophecies in order to bring Dany down (Undying ones, Quaithe). For example, the only thing Quaithe's prophecies do are confuse her and make her paranoid. We don't know if these are her motivations, but that's the end result. But also don't forget that some of the visions both from the past and the future were true. SOme events of Dany's past wwhich couldn't have been known, the slaves greeting Dany as mother, which really happened in the future. That's why she knows that those entities really have power, and that's why she invests interest in them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Great Winter Knight Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 There is speculation that the various prophets are making their prophecies in order to bring Dany down (Undying ones, Quaithe). For example, the only thing Quaithe's prophecies do are confuse her and make her paranoid. We don't know if these are her motivations, but that's the end result.But also don't forget that some of the visions both from the past and the future were true. SOme events of Dany's past wwhich couldn't have been known, the slaves greeting Dany as mother, which really happened in the future. That's why she knows that those entities really have power, and that's why she invests interest in them.Damn you prophets.Yeah I figure as much Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Great Winter Knight Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 Did Mel use the leeches in the fire just to see what was going on in other parts of the world? I know its a simple question but it just knawing at me like a mesquito. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FittleLinger Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 Did Mel use the leeches in the fire just to see what was going on in other parts of the world? I know its a simple question but it just knawing at me like a mesquito.It was a symbolic curse to the other kings - she wanted Stannis to believe she had something to do if and when they really die. IMO the leeches, of course, had nothing to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Great Winter Knight Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 It was a symbolic curse to the other kings - she wanted Stannis to believe she had something to do if and when they really die. IMO the leeches, of course, had nothing to do.So would Mel have some explaining to do, if Jon was AA and Mel is involved in bringing him back. I mean if she had any hand in Rob's death, or had a vision of it but said nothing, I would have to imagine Jon would be a little upset about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FittleLinger Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 So would Mel have some explaining to do, if Jon was AA and Mel is involved in bringing him back. I mean if she had any hand in Rob's death, or had a vision of it but said nothing, I would have to imagine Jon would be a little upset about it.I don't think she had any visions or clues whatsoever. It was symbolic, something like "This leach represents Robb the Usurper - Die, scum! *burn*, this Leach represents Joffrey the usurper - Die, scum! *burn*" if you're catching my drift. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Great Winter Knight Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 Ok so not sure if there is a thread about this or not, but who is the night suppose to be that picked Cersi up at the end of her walk. I have an idea but not sure.If there is a thread on this already I apologize. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lebronn Jaime Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 Ok so not sure if there is a thread about this or not, but who is the night suppose to be that picked Cersi up at the end of her walk. I have an idea but not sure.Ser Robert Strong, Qyburn's creation assumed by many to be the reanimated body of Gregor Clegane (give or take one head). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Great Winter Knight Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 Ser Robert Strong, Qyburn's creation assumed by many to be the reanimated body of Gregor Clegane (give or take one head).see that is what I thought too. But then did Cersi have a back up plan that involved bringing Gregor back. I ask because of the way she told her uncle to give Qyburn the message that "its time". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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