A Thread for Small Questions for ADwD IV

[eRome]

When does Theon learn Arnolf Karstark is really in league with the Boltons and only pretending to support Stannis? In "The Prince of Winterfell" in his conversation with Lady Dustin during "Arya's" wedding feast, he thinks, "Because Arnolf Karstark awaits only a sign from Lord Bolton before he turns his cloak."

I can't remember when Theon learns/overhears Arnolf's true allegiance...

[Lebronn Jaime]

When does Theon learn Arnolf Karstark is really in league with the Boltons and only pretending to support Stannis?

Arnolf visited the Dreadfort while Theon was a prisoner there. It's in the first Reek chapter. We can infer that he knew the specifics from the fact that the Boltons took his loyalty for granted and wouldn't have thought twice about making/discussing their plans in front of him.

[eRome]

Arnolf visited the Dreadfort while Theon was a prisoner there. It's in the first Reek chapter. We can infer that he knew the specifics from the fact that the Boltons took his loyalty for granted and wouldn't have thought twice about making/discussing their plans in front of him.

Got it, thanks. I'm reading AFFC and ADWD at the same time and stuff is starting to run together! "For my memory is dark and full of errors!"

[rohit39]

I'm really confused over the stimulus that prompted Jamie's change of heart, turning from a bad guy, to a, well, sorta good guy. I know people say it was Catelyn's chastising of him, combined with the ill feeling of Cersei's betrayal maybe with a bit of shame developed from Brienne's constant "kingslayer" taunts, but it still seems quite a big leap, for a character who threw a kid of the castle wall without batting an eyelid.

Any thoughts?

[The Dornishman's Wife]

I'm really confused over the stimulus that prompted Jamie's change of heart, turning from a bad guy, to a, well, sorta good guy. I know people say it was Catelyn's chastising of him, combined with the ill feeling of Cersei's betrayal maybe with a bit of shame developed from Brienne's constant "kingslayer" taunts, but it still seems quite a big leap, for a character who threw a kid of the castle wall without batting an eyelid.

Any thoughts?

Probably a whole thread could be dedicated to Jaimie's (supposed) redemption arc, as there are many many little things that come together to prompt a change that is very gradual (and if you look deep enough, you might well find one). Together with the points you mentioned, I think crucial mechanisms are:

- Jaime saw himself as a fighter and it was very easy for him to regard morality or honour as a way for weaklings to deny him the rights he has as the strongest of them all. With the removal of his sword hand, he is forced to question his identity and at the same time inclined to see the advantages of a world where might is not right.

- Jaime was exclusively focussed on Cersei. Where other people might have a moral compass, he had her. So when she appeared threatened (Bran spied on them), there was no question how he would act, even though he did realize the magnitude of his action and made clear that he only committed it because in his world, Cersei trumped everything ("The things I do for love"). After he returned to King's Landing, he slowly realizes that Cersei does not truly love him in return and this has made him question his blind allegiance to her as well.

[Sand Snake No. 9]

Does it say anywhere whether the Trident and its tributaries are navigable? (Just wondering whether Westeros' interior is threatened by the Ironborn).

[rohit39]

If i'm not mistaken, when Brienne and Jamie first leave Riverrun, didn't they row down the Trident and its tributaries?

[King Doug]

Does it say anywhere whether the Trident and its tributaries are navigable? (Just wondering whether Westeros' interior is threatened by the Ironborn).

Well, before Aegon's conquest, the Riverlands was controlled by the Ironborn. Other than that, we know they can take Moat Cailin, and they have big plans to go pretty deep into the Reach by rivers.

[rohit39]

But wouldn't the Trident and its tributaries freeze up during winter?

[Black Wolf Smith]

But wouldn't the Trident and its tributaries freeze up during winter?

that would depended on a lot of things we don't know.

How wide is the river? how deep is the river? The speed of the currents of the river, Temperature, temperature of the water,

When I leaved in Minneapolis, the edges of the Mississippi river would freeze sometimes but only a few times did the whole river have a thin cover of ice. Even when it did, the river it self did not freeze. Smaller, slower rivers would sometimes would freeze up.

[Sand Snake No. 9]

If i'm not mistaken, when Brienne and Jamie first leave Riverrun, didn't they row down the Trident and its tributaries?

A rowboat can be used on small rivers; I was wondering if something like a Viking longboat could go up it. The Vikings sacked Paris by sailing, or rowing, their shallow-draft boats up the Seine.

We know from Manderley's POV that the White Knife, and perhaps the tributary that goes near Winterfell, are navigable because he mentions river boats in his conversation with Davos. We know that the Mander is navigable because the Ironborn are going to sail it to get to wealthy inland towns. But outside of ferries, I don't recall any mention of larger boats on the Trident (You'd think Riverrun would have river boats if that was so, which would be a strategic advantage).

This is all just musing on my part (i.e. if a force could move up the Trident to the Greenrush, and there to the Twins, heh).

[Black Wolf Smith]

A rowboat can be used on small rivers; I was wondering if something like a Viking longboat could go up it. The Vikings sacked Paris by sailing, or rowing, their shallow-draft boats up the Seine.

We know from Manderley's POV that the White Knife, and perhaps the tributary that goes near Winterfell, are navigable because he mentions river boats in his conversation with Davos. We know that the Mander is navigable because the Ironborn are going to sail it to get to wealthy inland towns. But outside of ferries, I don't recall any mention of larger boats on the Trident (You'd think Riverrun would have river boats if that was so, which would be a strategic advantage).

This is all just musing on my part (i.e. if a force could move up the Trident to the Greenrush, and there to the Twins, heh).

When Brienne, Jamie, and his cuz were going down the river, men from RR chased them in a larger boat. I would that it would depend on the size of the boat. I know that Germatic tribes did some raiding during roman times, and had of different sizes. Some would have less then 50 men others as many as 300.

[Sand Snake No. 9]

When Brienne, Jamie, and his cuz were going down the river, men from RR chased them in a larger boat. I would that it would depend on the size of the boat. I know that Germatic tribes did some raiding during roman times, and had of different sizes. Some would have less then 50 men others as many as 300.

Thanks. I'll take a look at that section.

[HeWhoKnocks]

Nitpicky question, but it's bothering me: We know that bastards get standard names depending on there locale (Snow, Rivers, Sands, etc) but what happens if a bastard marries and has kids? Are his legitimate kids stuck with a bastard name? If so, after a few generations no one would know if a Snow was really a bastard or not; in fact, it would be pretty dangerous to make that assumption.

[Fire Eater]

Nitpicky question, but it's bothering me: We know that bastards get standard names depending on there locale (Snow, Rivers, Sands, etc) but what happens if a bastard marries and has kids? Are his legitimate kids stuck with a bastard name? If so, after a few generations no one would know if a Snow was really a bastard or not; in fact, it would be pretty dangerous to make that assumption.

Walder Rivers is married, and his trueborn son is named Aemon Rivers. The name sticks so some legitimate sons add to their names such as the legitimate son of Ser Jon Waters changing his name to "Longwaters".

[Lady of Long Lake]

Webbed fingers, a family trait.

Holy @#$%! Never in a million years would I have thought of that. Thank you for that tidbit.

[Kfar]

This is my first time posting. I don't know if this has been asked yet and it's been awhile since I finished the book but I remember thinking...

1. Could young Aegon be the result of Connington and Ashara Dayne (violet eyes) whom Jon then decided to try to pass off as Aegon so he could have revenge?

2. Didn't Rhaegar discover something in his books when he was young which changed his life? Maybe he knew his son with a Stark would be the PwwP and he told his loyal KG and that is why they guarded Jon at the ToJ?

[Bushido]

1. No,we see Jon Connington's internal monologue,not a single indication.

2. He probably discovered the Prince that was Promised prophecy - no reason for Stark connection,prophecy deals with Targaryen family.

[Dragonfish]

1. Could young Aegon be the result of Connington and Ashara Dayne (violet eyes) whom Jon then decided to try to pass off as Aegon so he could have revenge?

I doubt it, for two reasons:

1) Connington thinks of Aegon as Rhaegar's son in his own thoughts.

2) Connington is gay and was in love with Rhaegar, as confirmed by George.

2. Didn't Rhaegar discover something in his books when he was young which changed his life? Maybe he knew his son with a Stark would be the PwwP and he told his loyal KG and that is why they guarded Jon at the ToJ?

Rhaegar initially thought he was the PWWP, and I suspect this conviction was based on what he read when he was young. He then later decided it was his son Aegon when he saw a red comet on the night of his conception. If he realized a Stark figured into the prophecy, it probably wasn't when he was young.

[Kfar]

You guys are probably right. I think it was this passage of the book that made me think that for a second.. "He danced with Ashara Dayne at the Tourney at Harrenhal."