A Thread for Small Questions for ADwD IV

[Sand Snake No. 9]

Holy @#$%! Never in a million years would I have thought of that. Thank you for that tidbit.

I think this indicates that they're skinchangers, possibly Selkies (seal to human to seal), or perhaps that they were skinchangers.

[callmedodge]

Mully cleared his throat. “M’lord? The wildling princess, letting her go, the men may say—”

“—that I am half a wildling myself, a turncloak who means to sell the realm to our raiders, cannibals, and giants.” Jon

did not need to stare into a fire to know what was being said of him. The worst part was, they were not wrong, not

wholly. “Words are wind, and the wind is always blowing at the Wall. Come.”

This is from the Dance chapter when Jon let`s Val go to treat with Thormund. My question is pretty simple: When he says "they`re not wholly wrong" is referring simply to Ygritte or is there another plan Jon has regarding the wildlings?

[Black Wolf Smith]

Mully cleared his throat. “M’lord? The wildling princess, letting her go, the men may say—”

“—that I am half a wildling myself, a turncloak who means to sell the realm to our raiders, cannibals, and giants.” Jon

did not need to stare into a fire to know what was being said of him. The worst part was, they were not wrong, not

wholly. “Words are wind, and the wind is always blowing at the Wall. Come.”

This is from the Dance chapter when Jon let`s Val go to treat with Thormund. My question is pretty simple: When he says "they`re not wholly wrong" is referring simply to Ygritte or is there another plan Jon has regarding the wildlings?

I took it as he is starting to realize that he is a warg. Therefore their not wrong for thinking he is half wildling.

[FittleLinger]

I took it as he is starting to realize that he is a warg. Therefore their not wrong for thinking he is half wildling.

I've always thought of it that yes - technically he is a turncloak, and yes - he accepted their enemy - the wildlings. He lived with the wildlings as well, so yes - he could be referred to as half wildling.

[callmedodge]

Yeah, I thought I may have been reading too much into it. I just like the idea of Jon secretly being a "bad guy" so to speak.

[The Dornishman's Wife]

I've always thought of it that yes - technically he is a turncloak, and yes - he accepted their enemy - the wildlings. He lived with the wildlings as well, so yes - he could be referred to as half wildling.

I never realized that there are so many ways this passage can be made sense of. Let me just add my reading: He literally does "mean to sell (part of) the realm to their raiders, wildlings and giants", as he wants to settle them in the land belonging to the Night's Watch which he would give to them. Of course, they're not expected to pay with coin but by lending support against the others.

[Black Wolf Smith]

I never realized that there are so many ways this passage can be made sense of. Let me just add my reading: He literally does "mean to sell (part of) the realm to their raiders, wildlings and giants", as he wants to settle them in the land belonging to the Night's Watch which he would give to them. Of course, they're not expected to pay with coin but by lending support against the others.

Too true, but isn't that why we read aSoIaF? I mean if it were simply and could only be read one way, we wouldn't be here, would we?

[DaveSumm]

"Maesters will tell you that the weirwoods are sacred to the old gods. The singers believe they are the old gods. When singers die they become part of that godhood."

Bran's eyes widened. "They're going to kill me?"

"No," Meera said. "Jojen, you're scaring him."

"He is not the one who needs to be afraid."

Any theories on who Jojen is talking about here?

[FanTasy]

"Maesters will tell you that the weirwoods are sacred to the old gods. The singers believe they are the old gods. When singers die they become part of that godhood."

Bran's eyes widened. "They're going to kill me?"

"No," Meera said. "Jojen, you're scaring him."

"He is not the one who needs to be afraid."

Any theories on who Jojen is talking about here?

There are some threads dedicated to a theory that Jojen had reason to fear for his own life. You may want to check the 'Jojen-cake' threads. For instance this one: http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/56772-jojen-reeds-fate-adwd-spoilers/page__st__160

[DaveSumm]

Yea, I'm aware of Jojenpaste. Not a subscriber. I guess the line is intended to add to the hints that Jojen's death is nigh, and that he's accepted it. More than anything, Jojenpaste would be pointless - if all GRRM intends to do is kill Jojen then why add the bizarre twist of making Bran a cannibal? It won't change anything, Bran will continue to be taught by Bloodraven and Jojen will be dead. Plus, in the scheme of things, Jojen is a pretty prominent character, it'd be quite a disservice to simply kill him as a footnote tucked away in the middle of a chapter.

ETA: Has GRRM ever been asked about Jojenpaste? It seems like the sort of thing that, if it was wrong, he would refute outright.

[King Doug]

Yea, I'm aware of Jojenpaste. Not a subscriber. I guess the line is intended to add to the hints that Jojen's death is nigh, and that he's accepted it. More than anything, Jojenpaste would be pointless - if all GRRM intends to do is kill Jojen then why add the bizarre twist of making Bran a cannibal? It won't change anything, Bran will continue to be taught by Bloodraven and Jojen will be dead. Plus, in the scheme of things, Jojen is a pretty prominent character, it'd be quite a disservice to simply kill him as a footnote tucked away in the middle of a chapter.

ETA: Has GRRM ever been asked about Jojenpaste? It seems like the sort of thing that, if it was wrong, he would refute outright.

Well Bran wouldn't knowingly be a cannibal. But GRRM doesn't refute rumors or theories if they are still in question. I'm sure he's been asked about this, I just haven't perused the SSM threads for quite some time.

[Panizon]

Quick question: how long is Loras Tyrell's agony lasting?

[FittleLinger]

Quick question: how long is Loras Tyrell's agony lasting?

Most of us I think will tell you there is no such thing as Loras' agony :devil:

Timeline-wise - between his departure and being reported wounded - I don't know really, but I'd guess like a month or two. Could be much less though, like a couple of weeks, but I see it as a month or two in my head.

[Melifeather]

Mully cleared his throat. “M’lord? The wildling princess, letting her go, the men may say—”

“—that I am half a wildling myself, a turncloak who means to sell the realm to our raiders, cannibals, and giants.” Jon

did not need to stare into a fire to know what was being said of him. The worst part was, they were not wrong, not

wholly. “Words are wind, and the wind is always blowing at the Wall. Come.”

This is from the Dance chapter when Jon let`s Val go to treat with Thormund. My question is pretty simple: When he says "they`re not wholly wrong" is referring simply to Ygritte or is there another plan Jon has regarding the wildlings?

I took it as he is starting to realize that he is a warg. Therefore their not wrong for thinking he is half wildling.

I've always thought of it that yes - technically he is a turncloak, and yes - he accepted their enemy - the wildlings. He lived with the wildlings as well, so yes - he could be referred to as half wildling.

I'm with The Dornishman's Wife: Jon means to "sell" the realm to raiders, cannibals and giants as well as other wildlings, and that would make him a turncloak in the eyes of the majority.

"Maesters will tell you that the weirwoods are sacred to the old gods. The singers believe they are the old gods. When singers die they become part of that godhood."

Bran's eyes widened. "They're going to kill me?"

"No," Meera said. "Jojen, you're scaring him."

"He is not the one who needs to be afraid."

Any theories on who Jojen is talking about here?

Himself. Jojen is the one that should be afraid of the weirwoods, old gods, or Children that plan to kill him.

[Maester Buddha]

First post. I have a theory about gendry that I haven't seen anywhere else. I think he is the 1st child of cersei and Robert that supposedly died. Robert wasn't there when he was born but Jamie was. By that point cersei may have already been fed up with Robert and hatched her plan with Jamie to produce pure blooded lannister children. She may have decided then to get rid of gendry but just couldn't stand to kill him so she had someone (maybe varys.) send him away. As evil as cersei is she probably had some guilt about this initially and may have secretly visited gendry which would fit with gendry stating that the only thing he remembers about his mom is that she had blonde hair. Over time she had her pure born lannister kids and was able to completely remove any feelings she had for her first child, gendry. This makes gendry the baratheon heir. I don't know which character would actually know this info though to reveal it though. Maybe Jon Arryn actually got that far and will have some sort of written documentation that my surface at some point?

Sorry if this theory was posted before or is just really way off. I'm sure someone here can disprove it . . . . Or maybe not.

[Dragonfish]

First post. I have a theory about gendry that I haven't seen anywhere else. I think he is the 1st child of cersei and Robert that supposedly died.

No such child ever existed. That was an invention of the show. In the book Cersei became pregnant by Robert only once, but she aborted the child before it came to term.

Also, this thread is for small questions, not for posting your own theories.

[greygnarl]

Gendry's mother's hair color is important because it proves that when Baratheon and yellow hair mix Baratheon wins.

[Quiet Isle]

In response to the question re Rickon and Osha - they are traveling to Skagos.

[Quiet Isle]

"No such child ever existed. That was an invention of the show. In the book Cersei became pregnant by Robert only once, but she aborted the child before it came to term."

That was lie on Cersei's part. immediately after she says that, she tells an out and out lie which we KNOW is a lie. Her first born is alive. That's how Ned knows the other three children are NOT baratheon.

[King Doug]

"No such child ever existed. That was an invention of the show. In the book Cersei became pregnant by Robert only once, but she aborted the child before it came to term."

That was lie on Cersei's part. immediately after she says that, she tells an out and out lie which we KNOW is a lie. Her first born is alive. That's how Ned knows the other three children are NOT baratheon.

What is this lie you speak of? Ned figures out Joffrey, Myrcella, and Tommen are not Baratheons by seeing a few of Robert's bastards as well as that book about the histories of the great families.