A Thread for Small Questions for ADwD IV

[Rain of Castamere]

i agree that its quite tempting that coldhands is benjen, and to be honest that was my first thought when Samwell and Gilly got saved by Coldhands.

But I immediatly dismissed that when Bran met him and at no point had the thought of him beeing benjen.

Im quite sure he knows benjen, like all stark children. At the least from the feast for King Robert in aGoT in Winterfell.

But i must admit i didnt think about the scarf. So, yeah, the theory has its justification, allthough i personaly find it still weak.

Afaik there is no mention of coldhands voice sounding strange or unhuman, moreso, there is no reason we should think of it sounding altered at all. I for one came to the impression that the Stark Kids knew Benjen relatively well (with the circumstance of him beeing a brother of the nightswatch taken into account),and after the Feast for Robert at least well enough to recognize him even by voice alone.

But i can see why this theory still exist now.

Thank you

[Black Wolf Smith]

i dont remember in which book coldhands travels with bran to the three eyes crow, so im just asking here.

In the wiki page about coldhands theories

http://awoiaf.wester...dhands/Theories

the first theory is that he is benjen stark.

Why?

Wouldnt bran recognize his own uncle? i think thats complete nonsense..

CH= Benjen is an older theory from before aDwD came out. that is why it is listed first. As Dornishman's Wife has said, most don't believe it any more, but many n00bs come on the boards with that thought, and it can't dismissed because it hasn't been proven wrong at this point.

[Rain of Castamere]

ok also thanks to you.

the explanation of it beeing a pre aDwD theory actualy makes sense and i havent thought of that possibility.

maybe it should be at least marked as such in the wiki, but well, its just a minor quirk.. so what.

[FittleLinger]

ok also thanks to you.

the explanation of it beeing a pre aDwD theory actualy makes sense and i havent thought of that possibility.

maybe it should be at least marked as such in the wiki, but well, its just a minor quirk.. so what.

Well, if you take into consideration that he is unwilling to show his face, and that the CotF may be saying "long ago" in terms of Bran's lifespan (I mean the conversation can be translated as simply "They will kill him! - No, he's already dead") then it is not so absurd even post ADWD.

I still don't believe it though, but I won't be very very shocked if it turns out to be true in the end.

[Rain of Castamere]

valid point.

I guess we just have to wait and see how it turns out.

But I would be a little bit disapointed if coldhands really turns out to be Benjen.

I find the outlook of benjen simply gone missing and staying missing attractive and fitting for GRRMs approach of a realistic world, cause ultimately paople going amiss in such an environment is realistic. Maybe he slipped into a crevasse as it happened to other guys who are not as familiar with this landscape as the wildlings are as pointed out by the halfhand.

I can realy imagine MArtin saying "Yeah, ive told you hes missing and didnt say otherwise. Strangers go amiss up there, even seasoned first rangers of the watch, thats how it is. It is just unknown what happened to him, even to me, so deal with it" :)

His fate _not_ beeing resolved would ad even more to the allready dense feel of the world/story

[FittleLinger]

valid point.

I guess we just have to wait and see how it turns out.

But I would be a little bit disapointed if coldhands really turns out to be Benjen.

I find the outlook of benjen simply gone missing and staying missing attractive and fitting for GRRMs approach of a realistic world, cause ultimately paople going amiss in such an environment is realistic. Maybe he slipped into a crevasse as it happened to other guys who are not as familiar with this landscape as the wildlings are as pointed out by the halfhand.

I can realy imagine MArtin saying "Yeah, ive told you hes missing and didnt say otherwise. Strangers go amiss up there, even seasoned first rangers of the watch, thats how it is. It is just unknown what happened to him, even to me, so deal with it" :)

Not really disappointed, but I will be a little surprised if it really is Benjen. And what you are saying is exactly Martin-y, I agree completely.

But Benjen has been brought up quite a few times, like Martin was saying to us, "Did you forget about Benjen?". I have the gut feeling that at some point he will appear in some form. He might also have a mild connection to R+L, which is something to take into account.

But I will neither be surpired nor disappointed if he stays missing, and I agree it will be realistic. I just have a gut feeling from the text he hase some part to play, but it may be just that - a feeling.

[Rain of Castamere]

yeah deep down in me im more convinced he will make a return than not, allthough i cant say why.

But nonetheless, him staying missing i would approve.

But Benjen has been brought up quite a few times, like Martin was saying to us, "Did you forget about Benjen?"

i fear im not awareof what you are refereing here..

what did i miss?

[FittleLinger]

yeah deep down in me im more convinced he will make a return than not, allthough i cant say why.

But nonetheless, him staying missing i would approve.

i fear im not awareof what you are refereing here..

what did i miss?

Well in the books themselves, I got the feeling he gets brought up more often than other people who are assumed dead or missing. Jon thinks about him, Bran at some point if I'm not mistaken, Mormont, etc. Take Syrio for example - he is one of the characters people want so desperately to be alive (I am a firm believer he is not), and I think after his death he gets mentioned only once when Arya and Jaqen talk about going to Braavos. And not even by name.

[Rain of Castamere]

oh now i get it.

Yes, maybe, but thats imo only natural that benjen is brought up more often. He has been close to all these people, all of them beeing major characters we read alot of them. So i guess its only normal for them to think about benjen from time to time. he was mormonts first ranger, surely he thinks of him and hopes hes not dead. He was Jons uncle, someone Jon looked up to and was eager to see again when he joined the NW. surely he has still hopes he will see him again.

Syrio on the other hand is only realy known to Arya, Sansa and NEd. Neds obvoiously dead, and sansa afaik thought of him beeing an ordinary dance teacher and is not aware that he realy ment something to his sister.

And Arya herself thinks about him quite often, not directly, but indirectly when she repeats her words "Quick like a cat" and so on.

either syrio is dead or Arya meets him again in braavos.

but i think hes dead.

[FittleLinger]

Yes you're right, in an in-story level it's natural we hear more about Benjen than Syrio. But on a meta-level, that is on of the things that creates the gut feeling, not really based on anything else, that he might pop up.

[Rain of Castamere]

yes.

gut-wise benjen also felt like a somewhat important character and from the beginning i had the feeling he might sooner or later be important to the story, to some extent. But i thought the same thing about Robb, Joffrey or Tywin and we all know what happened :ack: Allthough they all had their fair share of importance, but anyway i did expect them to be important for longer. Especially Joffrey. I thought, when he was about to marry margery, that he will now really start to kick off, but then, well... :)

[Regina316]

either syrio is dead or Arya meets him again in braavos.

but i think hes dead.

Just to throw my cent in here (its not even two) I think Syrio is dead. For a long time. That he´s been just a face.

[kingofashes]

Is he not just meaning the part where he tries to get Drogon to attack him to save Dany?

the vid was long I just watched the first 10mins but in the comments he keeps refering to "To me! over here, try me!"?

Ran mentions an obsucre moment of Barristan Selmy badassery in ADWD in this youtube video:

Now, I've read the Barristan chapters, and he has many moments of badassery...but none that I would term obscure.

Won't you kind board members help me find the obscure moment Ran is alluding to?

[King Zee]

not sure if this is a small question.

if the entire main Lannister family (Jamie,Cersei, Tyrion, Tommen,Myrcella,Lancel) gets killed/disinherited or is otherwise inellible which Lannister relative inherits Casterly Rock.?

[Jorah Friendzone]

Martyn, Lancel's younger brother.

[The Faceless Bard]

Why does Martyn come before Lancel, I figured until Lancel gives up his lordship he is still the next one in line no ?

[Fire Eater]

Why does Martyn come before Lancel, I figured until Lancel gives up his lordship he is still the next one in line no ?

Lancel lost his inheritance when he joined the Faith Militant, which foreswears wives and lands.

[The Faceless Bard]

I have been without my copy of DWD so long the last I remembered was Jaime's talk with Lancel at Darry, Thanks for the reminder!

[Dimadick]

not sure if this is a small question.

if the entire main Lannister family (Jamie,Cersei, Tyrion, Tommen,Myrcella,Lancel) gets killed/disinherited or is otherwise inellible which Lannister relative inherits Casterly Rock.?

For what I can see on potential heirs to Cersei:

1. Tommen Baratheon. Only surviving son of Cersei.

2. Myrcella Baratheon. Daughter of Cersei. If she dies childless, the line of Cersei goes extinct/

3. [Jaime Lannister]. Eldest sibling to the current Lady. If he leaves the Kingsguard and is reinstated to the succession line.

4. [Tyrion Lannister]. Younger sibling to the current Lady. If he is pardoned for his crimes and reinstated to the succession line. If he dies childless, the line of Tywin goes extinct.

5. Lancel Lannister. First cousin to Cersei, senior heir assuming that Kevan was the second son of Tytos. Unclear if his allegiance to the Warrior's Sons disqualifies him from the succession.

6. Martyn Lannister. Younger brother to Lancel.

7. Janei Lannister. Sister to Lancel and Martyn. If she dies childless, the line of Kevan goes extinct.

8. [Tyrek Lannister]. Senior heir assuming that Tygett was the third son of Tytos. He has disappeared, but his death has been unconfirmed. Not certain if there are "death in absentia" laws in Westeros.

9. [Gerion Lannister]. Senior heir assuming he was the fourth son of Tytos. Same deal as Tyrek, though absent for a longer period.

10. [Joy Hill]. If she is legitimized. If she does childless, the line of Gerion goes extinct.

11. Genna Lannister-Frey. Only known daughter of Tytos.

12. Tywin Frey. Grandson of Genna, eldest son of her deceased firstborn son.

13. Willem Frey. Younger brother of Tywin. If he dies childless, the line of Cleos Frey goes extinct.

14. Lyonel Frey. Second son of Genna.

15. Red Walder Frey. Youngest son of Genna.If he dies childless, the line of Tytos goes extinct.

Then the succession would pass to various cadet lines of the Lannisters.

[rohit39]

It seems like a pretty basic question to me, but one that has been gnawing me for quite a while and have not been able to answer myself because i don't have my aDwD copy with me. But why does Mel glamour and interchange Mance and Rattleshirt? Was there some reasoning behind me, or a vision? I can't seem to recall.