A Thread for Small Questions XV

[DaveSumm]

Dave, I will take a photo of all my ASOIAF hardcovers next to each other on the shelf tonight and let you decide :) I don't remember GoT standing out.

Extremely kind of you to offer. However...

...I have investigated the issue and stumbled across not only the hardback reissue that occurred late last year, but the slipcase editions which amazon is showing as all in stock. Despite the negative feedback about the binding, being from the UK I'm very used to poor quality binding so I'm gonna be frivolous and spend £100+ on them right this very second. Then cross my fingers that they continue to produce them for tWoW and aDoS.

So yea, totally should have googled the issue first, apologies and thanks for all your help. :)

[LifeRuiner]

So yea, totally should have googled the issue first, apologies and thanks for all your help. :)

No problem! For what it's worth, my AFfC is from a UK printing house (I lived in Europe when I bought it) and I prefer its binding to my newly acquired US hardcovers. In their slipcovers though, they all look remarkably alike, so it seems that the publishing house is keen on sticking to the same style. Enjoy :)

[fazzar]

When Loras sees Brienne in Kings Landing, he first wants to kill her, but is convinced to having her arrested. I understand why Loras feels that way....but, he is now a member of the Kingsguard, and is sworn to protect the king. Renly was a traitor to the king. Wouldn't him wanting to avenge Renly go against his current oath? And, also, why would the current regime want to imprison Brienne for Renly's murder? If she was believed resposible, shouldn't she be rewarded by the current regime for killing a traitor?

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

When Loras sees Brienne in Kings Landing, he first wants to kill her, but is convinced to having her arrested. I understand why Loras feels that way....but, he is now a member of the Kingsguard, and is sworn to protect the king. Renly was a traitor to the king. Wouldn't him wanting to avenge Renly go against his current oath? And, also, why would the current regime want to imprison Brienne for Renly's murder? If she was believed resposible, shouldn't she be rewarded by the current regime for killing a traitor?

Loras is sure that Brienne killed Renly because it was only her and Catelyn in the tent with him when he was killed. As far as the oath ... that's tricky, obviously. Loras has a hard time letting go and Jaime pretty much decides to just humor him.

[Elito]

Not so much a question as a strange observation:

Isn't a bit weird that, after warging Ghost and seeing what the wildlings were up to in aCoK, we don't ONCE hear Jon remark that this is slightly odd, or reflect in any way on this ability, or generally seem the least bit phased by something he probably assumed was just folklore up till then? He mentions in aSoS that some of the wildlings call him a warg, and again just glosses over it as if it were any other nickname. I don't really understand this.

I really liked that question and I've seen the answers to it. However I personally think that John embraces the idea of being a warg, or at least likes very much the connections he was with Ghost, only that he really does not understand / realizes how powerfull he is / or could be if he trained. I think he also knows that the wildings know but he does not really want the brothers in the NW to know because the gift is weird for them, so he tries to hide it from them, ( I belive he says something about "Ghost ate that not me", he is just trying to act normal, I do not think he is afraid of the gift). After all being a warg is a concept that even the wildings have trouble accepting. Besides after seeing the dead walking he probably decided that all the old Nan histories where true after all.

What I personally find weird is that Bloodraven says to Bran that only one in a 100 or 1000 (don't find the right line) have the gift of skinchanging, but really all of the Winterfell child seem to be able to do it (except for Sansa, that lost her wolf) all the other son's of Winterfell that have had a POV are able to connect with their direwolf at least. So probably Rickon and Robb were able to do it too. So is it known that they are (Jon and Ayra) actually skin changers and it is not just a direwolfy connection? Asuming that the cat in Ayra's dreams is just a dream after all.

[Lady of Long Lake]

I really liked that question and I've seen the answers to it. However I personally think that John embraces the idea of being a warg, or at least likes very much the connections he was with Ghost, only that he really does not understand / realizes how powerfull he is / or could be if he trained. I think he also knows that the wildings know but he does not really want the brothers in the NW to know because the gift is weird for them, so he tries to hide it from them, ( I belive he says something about "Ghost ate that not me", he is just trying to act normal, I do not think he is afraid of the gift). After all being a warg is a concept that even the wildings have trouble accepting. Besides after seeing the dead walking he probably decided that all the old Nan histories where true after all.

What I personally find weird is that Bloodraven says to Bran that only one in a 100 or 1000 (don't find the right line) have the gift of skinchanging, but really all of the Winterfell child seem to be able to do it (except for Sansa, that lost her wolf) all the other son's of Winterfell that have had a POV are able to connect with their direwolf at least. So probably Rickon and Robb were able to do it too. So is it known that they are (Jon and Ayra) actually skin changers and it is not just a direwolfy connection? Asuming that the cat in Ayra's dreams is just a dream after all.

Welcome to the forums Daniela :thumbsup:

Bloodraven says that 1 in a 1000 people is a skinchanger and 1 in a 1000 skinchangers is a greenseer. I think it's more of a statistical fact and is not comparable to winning a game of chance with the same 1 in 1000 odds. It's probably technically true when you count all the ppl in the North but the skinchangers will ALL be concentrated in certain family bloodlines. It isn't random or good luck when a skinchanger is born, it's entirely hereditary, in my opinion.

Arya was able to "see" the KIndly Man during their fight, when Arya was blinded. She used the cat's eyes to know when he was swinging at her and that tells me that all the Stark kids could use other animals too. I think of their direwolves as their "first bike with training wheels". Those pups made it easy for the Stark kids to learn about their gift.

Another thought is that Varamyr or Borroq ( I forget which) looked at Jon and instintively knew he was a very powerful warg, but also knew that Jon wasn't aware of his power. I think that means Jon can skinchange into a TON of animals, if he chooses to.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

What I personally find weird is that Bloodraven says to Bran that only one in a 100 or 1000 (don't find the right line) have the gift of skinchanging, but really all of the Winterfell child seem to be able to do it (except for Sansa, that lost her wolf) all the other son's of Winterfell that have had a POV are able to connect with their direwolf at least. So probably Rickon and Robb were able to do it too. So is it known that they are (Jon and Ayra) actually skin changers and it is not just a direwolfy connection? Asuming that the cat in Ayra's dreams is just a dream after all.

All six of the Stark kids are wargs/skinchangers, in all likelihood not limited to just their direwolves.

[Ghost714]

I think the reason why Jon doesn't freak out about his Warg abilities, is because it is in his blood, its a part of him(like others have said). Another reason being, Jon is kind of in denial about his abilities. So instead of freaking out, Jon just doesn't really accept it(yet), kind of like Robb when saying he wasn't a wolf, despite people calling him that.

Also I agree with AppleMartini, that all Stark children are Wargs/Skinchangers, even Sansa. The way I see it is, even though Sansa lost Lady, she still has the ability, Sansa's ability is just the most underdeveloped, because she did lose Lady early on, before she could really develop her "gift".

Edit. Wasn't there an SSM were GRRM confirmed that all The Stark children had the ability?

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

Edit. Wasn't there an SSM were GRRM confirmed that all The Stark children had the ability?

Yep.

[Elito]

Great!!!! Thanks for your answers feel free to redirect me to a treath if it gets too anoying for you to go over the same questions... Does anyone knows if a Dragon can be sliped into? Does skin changing work with them as well?

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

Does anyone knows if a Dragon can be sliped into? Does skin changing work with them as well?

I fully expect this to happen, yeah.

[Ghost714]

I fully expect this to happen, yeah.

Just curious, in what way could you actually see that happening? Do you have a hypothetical situation that you could see this happening in?

[lyvyathan]

Here's what George has to say on the matter:

"A ruling princess of Dorne would =not= take the name of her consort. And some of the major Dornish lordlings also follow this custom, in imitation of the ruling house."

But the reference there is to a "consort" - ie. a minor royalty. If for example Arienne marries Joffery Baratheon - then wouldn't she be taking his surname in place of her's?

Having said that if she does marry Bran Stark, who is 2nd in line, then mayhaps she would retain her surname - and more so if he comes without any substantial property ownership.

[ptyx]

But the reference there is to a "consort" - ie. a minor royalty. If for example Arienne marries Joffery Baratheon - then wouldn't she be taking his surname in place of her's?

Having said that if she does marry Bran Stark, who is 2nd in line, then mayhaps she would retain her surname - and more so if he comes without any substantial property ownership.

Let's say we're talking about the situation from the beginning of AGOT, because, you know, it's not very likely she marries Joffrey now ;)

If she married Joffrey, she wouldn't be a Princess of Dorne, but a Queen of Seven Kingdoms instead, so she would do as she liked, but their children would be Baratheons anyway.

If she married Bran Stark and was to become a Princess of Dorne later, she would remain a Martell and their children would probably be Martells as well.

If she was second to inherit Dorne (so if Quentyn was older than her), and she married Bran Stark, she would probably remain a Martell, but their children would most probably be Starks.

At least that's what I think, I may be wrong, of course.

[Lord Tywin's Poop]

how many men did Robb have with him when he was planning to attack Moat Callin?

[lyvyathan]

Let's say we're talking about the situation from the beginning of AGOT, because, you know, it's not very likely she marries Joffrey now ;)

Haha, of course. But you never know. He may get resurrected in the next book "Zombies are Coming"

If she married Joffrey, she wouldn't be a Princess of Dorne, but a Queen of Seven Kingdoms instead, so she would do as she liked, but their children would be Baratheons anyway.

If she married Bran Stark and was to become a Princess of Dorne later, she would remain a Martell and their children would probably be Martells as well.

If she was second to inherit Dorne (so if Quentyn was older than her), and she married Bran Stark, she would probably remain a Martell, but their children would most probably be Starks.

At least that's what I think, I may be wrong, of course.

I think your matrilocal argument is compelling and makes sense.

Since GRRM is fond of tending towards realism - it might be worth considering other real-life examples. In Japanese feudal culture - it is acceptable for a powerful family without a male heir to adopt one through marriage with a lower ranking house. The outsider male marries the daughter of the richer family and adopts her family name as his own. ... unless his own family name had a greater heritage and reputation. Merchant families were doing this with poorer samurai families.

Another example I can think of was the marriage of Queen Victoria to Prince Albert who never became a "King" but remained her "consort" which must have felt a tad humiliating- but in that case, I believe (I may be wrong) that their children took on their father's German surname. And in living memory, we have Queen Elizabeth 2nd who married Prince Philip and he became her consort whilst she retained all the trappings of leadership.

[Ghost714]

how many men did Robb have with him when he was planning to attack Moat Callin?

I believe when Robb first came up with that plan, he had 3,500 Northmen, on their way to the Twins, but Robb was planning to join his strength to Roose Bolton's, after the wedding. At the time I think Robb still believed Roose Bolton to have 10,000 of his men, but later Robb learns that a third of his foot soldiers were lost at Duskendale(thanks to Roose Bolton ordering Robett Glover to meat up with Helmen Talhart, to march on Duskendale, their army was caught in between the sea, Randyll Tarly, and Gregor Clegane... Needless to say, they got annihilated).

Robb also planned to rejoin his strenght to the Freys. So at first, Robb planned to attack Moat Callin with 13,500 Northmen and a few thousand Frey men at arms, so let's say 16,000 total.

So after the losses at Duskendale, had the Red Wedding not happened etc, I believe Robb would have attacked Moat Callin with around 12,000 men. I can't remember how much of that would have been horse, and how much would have been foot though.

But in the initial plan, Robb expected to have around 16,000 men, to attack Moat Callin, and to retake the North.

(my numbers may be a little off, I am going off of memory, so anybody feel free to correct me)

Robb's Plan would have totally worked though, because he was planning to use secret pathways, that were only known to the Cronnogmen. Meanwhile, the Greatjon would be attacking from the South, so the Iron Men would have never know about Robb coming from the North.

It was truly an amazing plan, and that was one of the most painful things about the Red Wedding, not getting to see that plan in action. I mean honestly, when I first read that plan, I got goose bumps, it was that good.

[Ski the Swift]

Just started a reread and I'm not sure if anyone else has noted it before but Tyrion takes some books from the Winterfell library with him on his trip to the wall with Ned's blessings. Now we know that the Winterfell library burns down after that, presumably destroying all the books in there. Does anyone else think that these book that Tyrion had might be something of import and what happened to them?

[Teal'c]

All six of the Stark kids are wargs/skinchangers, in all likelihood not limited to just their direwolves.

I would love that to be true but I haven't seen anything to show it for Sansa. Can someone please point me to the text as I must have missed it. Thank you.

[Teal'c]

...Another thought is that Varamyr or Borroq ( I forget which) looked at Jon and instintively knew he was a very powerful warg, but also knew that Jon wasn't aware of his power. I think that means Jon can skinchange into a TON of animals, if he chooses to.

Both Varamyr and Borroq notice Jon is a skinchanger. Varamyr also notices that Jon is avoiding the gift.