[Book Spoilers] Joffrey and the whores

[Mulled Wino]

I will bet that they did save a bulk of the budget for this one, Thank god george himself is writing this episode. I for one CANNOT wait. I think it will be fantastic.

The thing about Blackwater that's so great is the buildup. There's absolutely none yet in the series, while in the books everyone was freaking out in KL. Tyrion thought they were dead meat until Stannis sailed against his brother and he was well into the chain building and pyromancer visits.

[Neffaria]

fortunately in TV land that kind of build up can happen in one or two episodes. and blackwater is four away. It's really going to depend on how they treat the whole part in kings landing after they see Myrcella off. the writers have their work cut out for them, but it is possible to do it. up to this point we really havent seen too much of what is going on right outside the red keep. so it isnt too far fetched that once that is revealed it will create the neccesary tension.

[Mulled Wino]

fortunately in TV land that kind of build up can happen in one or two episodes. and blackwater is four away. It's really going to depend on how they treat the whole part in kings landing after they see Myrcella off. the writers have their work cut out for them, but it is possible to do it. up to this point we really havent seen too much of what is going on right outside the red keep. so it isnt too far fetched that once that is revealed it will create the neccesary tension.

hopefully, but im not very optimistic with the way things are going so far.

[The Bastard of Bolton]

Don't mods here send PMs when they decide to delete your post?

So sorry that I found fault with the lustful angst of those who wished to see Sansa disrobed at 15.

I guess considering the source material I should expect that there would be pedophiles amongst the fans and those who protect them.

[ChromeWeasel]

Don't mods here send PMs when they decide to delete your post?

So sorry that I found fault with the lustful angst of those who wished to see Sansa disrobed at 15.

I guess considering the source material I should expect that there would be pedophiles amongst the fans and those who protect them.

By definition, a pedophile isn't interested in a sexually developed 15 year old. Do you really not know that, or are you intentionally using the most dispicable description imaginable for people that simply disagree with you?

[Nukelavee]

Bastard....you'll have it happen again over teh ped comment, and, no, Mod's rarely ever let you know what it was that got you edited.

Besides, I think that's a pretty extreme take on the reasoning behind why people would want that scene handled differently. I was disappointed with the scene (and then the use of the whore scene and teh scepter to achieve the same result, but, y'know, kinkier, with tits), and I was actually hoping they didn't have Sansa stripped.

Envie- I agree with your "domino effect" reading of things...most of the changes in S1 seemed to condense things, or make clear things too drawn out or subtle for the series; in S2, so many of those types of changes seem clumsy, and likely to have big effects causing changes to the story later on, unless the writers rein in fast, and correct.

Stannis banging Mel on the table? Hugely bad, in that it takes a plot point that is important, because it hasn't been proven, and then makes it totally concrete and central, as an example.

[Sword of the Morning Wood]

While he may have overeacted you can see where he's coming from. You're king of all of Westeros and getting excited about this great nameday gift and walk in to find... these two . In fact it would have been understandable to see him sending his uncle a note attached to Ros's head via crossbow bolt reading,

Dear uncle got your gift. Next time make sure they're;

A: Actually attractive.

B. Younger than my mother

Sincerely, the ******* KING.

P.S. Dear HBO, if you want people to enjoy these titillating scenes involving nothing and going nowhere cast women that are actually, you know, hot.

Sincerely, the demographic you feel needs scene after scene of naked pointless whores.

I'm not sure what sex you are but I can assure you, as someone who's been a teenage male virgin, they were more than hot enough.

[The Bastard of Bolton]

By definition, a pedophile isn't interested in a sexually developed 15 year old. Do you really not know that, or are you intentionally using the most dispicable description imaginable for people that simply disagree with you?

Hebephiles, sorry. Pedophilia is quite more disgusting just didn't think of the appropriate term sure liking underaged teen girls.

It is still legally wrong and I just felt it was amusing that some would make the case that Sansa having her gown completely torn off was necessary for the scene to work, when really they just wanted to see some firm teen tits that they legally aren't entitled to be seeing in most countries.

Bastard....you'll have it happen again over teh ped comment, and, no, Mod's rarely ever let you know what it was that got you edited.

Besides, I think that's a pretty extreme take on the reasoning behind why people would want that scene handled differently. I was disappointed with the scene (and then the use of the whore scene and teh scepter to achieve the same result, but, y'know, kinkier, with tits), and I was actually hoping they didn't have Sansa stripped.

I wasn't arguing that anyone who felt the scene was badly handled complained because they felt it would be better if they'd gotten Sansa nipple action, but there was a handful throughout these 8 pages who did say that it would have been better for dramatic reasons or some other such horseshit.

[Isabella Stark]

I think people have made some good arguments in favor of that Joff & the whores scene.

However, I still think it's too over the top and causes two problems:

1) It overshadows the rest of the episode and took time away from more interesting and important scenes. I also think the beating Sansa scene felt rushed. I didn't necessarily want to watch Sansa get beaten longer, but that's an important scene in Sansa's story and it got lost in the whore beating. I think it would have been more interesting to show more of Joffrey's enjoyment of her getting beaten, other characters responses, more of what the Hound does in that scene (and I'm not even a San-San fan).

2) They've shot their wad (sorry, couldn't' think of a better expression) as far as 'Joffrey is a sadistic monster.' If Season 3 is only going to be the 1st half of ASOS, Joffrey's going to be around until season 4. What are they going to do with his character in that time? Are they going to keep escalating his cruelty? How? I hate to think of what would 'top' this scene. I would have preferred they spend that time establishing his evil in a wider variety of ways such as animal cruelty and shooting starving rioters, and escalating it more gradually.

[Hear Us Roar]

As to the Sansa disrobing they could have hired older actors to get past all that stuff. You can find an older actor that looks like a teen for example

[Nukelavee]

Actually - you know what they messed up on with those two scenes? Joffery's character.

In the books, the point WAS Sansa's breasts, and Tyrion pointed it out, that, really, Joff wanted a look and wanted to be a dick.

IMO, it gave a bit of insight into Joff, reminded us that he was still a boy, a powerful, spoiled, vile boy, but a boy.

This? This gave Joff too much the appearance of somebody already confident in his power, and too mature.

Having said that, I think the actor is great, does an amazing job.

[Prince of Dragonstone]

Can't wait for the future scene when Tywin puts this little worm in his place. I'm predicting it will be a fan favorite.

[DornishKnight]

IT's ok but not how I would have dealt with joffrey's depravity

I would have had done where following scene:

myrcella and tommen knock on sansa's door ask if they can spent the next night(s) with her. and then we see myrcella throwing a bloody loincloth into the fire.

maybe some bruises, myrcella asks if Robb will spare her and tommen

:stillsick: :agree:

Twisted, dark, depraved, gets the point across, and subtle. You are a genius.

:bowdown:

[Tooker]

The show is just driving home the points from the book a little harder. It was implied that Joff was a sociopath. He cut out the baby kittens from the cat, he tortured Sansa physically and emotionally. He tried to finish Bran, which is interesting because it indicates not only does he have no problem killing but that he picked up on why Bran had fallen in the first place which is something almost no one ever figured out! He didn't seem able to connect with other people. He had Ned Stark's head chopped probably just for the opportunity to see blood and gore. The guy is not well. So since the show has to convey all this fast, it seems like they are exaggerating Joff. But they really aren't at all. Spread out over so many books, mixed in with other POVs and also never coming from the little sicko's own POV, it's easy to downplay the significance of his being a total crazyass when reading. He strangely is like King Aerys come again, way more than Dany, though she doesn't seem totally sane.

I know what you mean about the scene being twisted, though. He picked up that stick thing and I was really disturbed. The show always makes an excuse to have Petyr's whores in there too, every freaking episode. We get it, HBO, they're ladies who have sex for money. Soooo fascinating, except j/k, not really. Love that they found time for that but not to put Jon Snow or the Night's Watch in at all.

[The late lady stark]

I agree that they may have "shot it" with Joff and there's no place to escalate his cruelty.

However, I do think that for the TV audience they have to sell that killing a "boy" is actually a very happy thing to the audience. So they have have him be vile.

[Abicion]

Part of me thinks they keep emphasizing how despicable he is to "off-set" how evil Cersei is, and make her more "likable," which is just ridiculous.

I assure you, no one is trying to make Cersei likable. Nobody can accomplish the impossible.

[Buckwheat]

I didnt like the scene, thought it was too much, and I do think that if they could have extended the Sansa beating scene and it would have had the same effect, but it is possible that b/c sophie doesnt do nudity they went about it a different way

It was not needed to show nudity. They made the knight rip the dress on the back, and she still kept it over her breast, and it was horrible enough (that is actually exactly how I imagined the scene would be handled).

The next scene took away from Sansa's suffering. And Sansa is a main character, one of the Stark children. It is stupid to take time from her and give it to some prostitutes nobody really cares about. And now Ros has more screen time than her?

Some posters say that the scene showed what kind of sicko Joffrey was: But we already know that. I do not thnik it is necessary to show it once more, when they could show Dontos's and Sandor's interactions with Sansa or some other useful stuff that would move the plot forward.

[jarl the climber]

I think the fact that they are playing down the Sandor and Sansa relationship means that is probaly not as important as some people think. Sorry SanSan Sisterhood. King Caligula, I mean King Joffery, is shown doing this because it displays his contempt for Tyrion and women.

[jarl the climber]

couldnt agree with you more. I have a few friends that watched the show and I asked them if they thought it was over the top and unnecessary or gratuitous. One said he always figured joff was a jerk but thought that was more of a power hungry ruler "Im the king and a bad one at that" kind of jerk.. the fact that he did it behind closed doors made them really afraid for Sansa...they're all pretty afraid for her. which i think is good, because up till this episode they werent really getting the fact that she is pretending to still be in love. Now, especially after the beating scene and small conversation with tyrion, they got it, and then they became scared for her.

I didnt like the scene, thought it was too much, and I do think that if they could have extended the Sansa beating scene and it would have had the same effect, but it is possible that b/c sophie doesnt do nudity they went about it a different way

I think it would be considered child porn in some countries since Sophie is under 18.

[Buckwheat]

I think the fact that they are playing down the Sandor and Sansa relationship means that is probaly not as important as some people think. Sorry SanSan Sisterhood. King Caligula, I mean King Joffery, is shown doing this because it displays his contempt for Tyrion and women.

I think their relationship is important.

But even if it is not, it gives Sansa something to do, some scenes to make with her during her stay in the keep. Now we see her so very little that Ros has more scenes than her.

I do not mind THAT much if their relationship is omitted or toned down, but please give her something to do instead of showing us Ros and Joff.