So why didn't the Qartheen kill Dany and take her Dragons ?

[Winter's Knight]

Same reason Tyrion is a badass in the battle of Blackwater but started cramping while serving wine in the yellow slaver's tent in ADwD-it's a minor plot inconstancy.

[Eejit]

Sorry, I still think the backtracking is funny. Then again, the "killing people and stealing from them means no one will trust you" thing was said without a hint of irony, so ... lots of lulz in this thread already.

Using the word "lulz" without a hint of irony is surely worse :P

Anyway, no plot hole necessary.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

Using the word "lulz" without a hint of irony is surely worse :P

Anyway, no plot hole necessary.

What makes you think it was without irony?

Seriously though, I can't be the only one who caught the "If you kill someone and steal from them, no one will trust you" thing. Gee, who do we know who does that?

[Zeromus]

What makes you think it was without irony?

Seriously though, I can't be the only one who caught the "If you kill someone and steal from them, no one will trust you" thing. Gee, who do we know who does that?

You should know by now that some people here will excuse their favourite characters of anything. It's the characters they don't like that are there to be judged.

[GoldenFleece]

What makes you think it was without irony?

Seriously though, I can't be the only one who caught the "If you kill someone and steal from them, no one will trust you" thing. Gee, who do we know who does that?

Meh, Dany can be ruthless when she wants to be, you have to be to be King/Queen. So some people who treated other human beings as pieces of meat got killed, I'm not going to weep for them. I can't say I would have done anything differently in Dany's situation.

Regarding the question why Qarth did not steal the dragons.

They probably thought it would be easier controlling a 16 year old girl who in turn would control her dragons, rather than kill her and TRY to control the dragons.

Plus it is unknown what the dragons would have done if Dany was killed, they could rampage the city, or fly off and come back bigger and stronger and rampage the city. Or worse rival cities could somehow control this dragons.

They are plenty of risks with killing Dany, with no definite gain.

[Hear Us Roar]

Because plot armour. She is basically defenceless when she reaches the city

[PrinceHenryris]

Meh, Dany can be ruthless when she wants to be, you have to be to be King/Queen. So some people who treated other human beings as pieces of meat got killed, I'm not going to weep for them. I can't say I would have done anything differently in Dany's situation.

Regarding the question why Qarth did not steal the dragons.

They probably thought it would be easier controlling a 16 year old girl who in turn would control her dragons, rather than kill her and TRY to control the dragons.

Plus it is unknown what the dragons would have done if Dany was killed, they could rampage the city, or fly off and come back bigger and stronger and rampage the city. Or worse rival cities could somehow control this dragons.

They are plenty of risks with killing Dany, with no definite gain.

I like this. Even though the dragons were small, the Quartheen had no idea what they were capable of doing.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

Meh, Dany can be ruthless when she wants to be, you have to be to be King/Queen. So some people who treated other human beings as pieces of meat got killed, I'm not going to weep for them. I can't say I would have done anything differently in Dany's situation.

I'm talking more about how it would be viewed by the other cities. By our own standards it was nothing to shed tears over. By the standards of the culture she was in, her credibility is destroyed.

[GoldenFleece]

I'm talking more about how it would be viewed by the other cities. By our own standards it was nothing to shed tears over. By the standards of the culture she was in, her credibility is destroyed.

Her credibility with slavers is destroyed, I agree. Her credibility with others however is a different story. At the end of Dance with Dragons people are flocking to help her, Volantis is in a slave revolt due to what she is doing in Slaver Bay.

Her credibility with the freed people went through the roof, and Westerosi people would have found the action noble and honourable. For example Ned had no time for slavers and would have beheaded one instantly.

Thats what I like about these books, its actually quite realisitic concerning power, no-one gains power while lying on a bed of roses.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

Her credibility with slavers is destroyed, I agree. Her credibility with others however is a different story. At the end of Dance with Dragons people are flocking to help her, Volantis is in a slave revolt due to what she is doing in Slaver Bay.

What will Volantis do when they learn she isn't going to help them? I've said this before, but "freeing" people is easy. Taking the steps to ensure that they're secure, fed and employed is a shade harder. And when she's trying to make peace with some of these slavers and ex-slavers (the Yunkai forces and her own husband), she might wish she had some of the credibility she lost.

Her credibility with the freed people went through the roof, and Westerosi people would have found the action noble and honourable. For example Ned had no time for slavers and would have beheaded one instantly.

I don't think Ned would have found much if anything honorable about that kind of deceit.

[DirePenguin]

Meh, Dany can be ruthless when she wants to be, you have to be to be King/Queen. So some people who treated other human beings as pieces of meat got killed, I'm not going to weep for them. I can't say I would have done anything differently in Dany's situation.

Regarding the question why Qarth did not steal the dragons.

They probably thought it would be easier controlling a 16 year old girl who in turn would control her dragons, rather than kill her and TRY to control the dragons.

Plus it is unknown what the dragons would have done if Dany was killed, they could rampage the city, or fly off and come back bigger and stronger and rampage the city. Or worse rival cities could somehow control this dragons.

They are plenty of risks with killing Dany, with no definite gain.

Assuming those 13s even believed there's a dragon.

[Sam with Hooters]

Prince Henryris wrote:

Even though the dragons were small, the Quartheen had no idea what they were capable of doing.

Or whether they'd defend their "Mother." This episode also takes pains to point out that dragonfire is FAR more destructive than normal fire, and even melts stone, so how much help would armor be? Dany not only has dragon mystique going for her, she has Targ mystique; for all the Qartheen know, she's the only one who can control them. Better to find out more about them -- especially how to control them -- than risk an attack.

[GoldenFleece]

What will Volantis do when they learn she isn't going to help them? I've said this before, but "freeing" people is easy. Taking the steps to ensure that they're secure, fed and employed is a shade harder. And when she's trying to make peace with some of these slavers and ex-slavers (the Yunkai forces and her own husband), she might wish she had some of the credibility she lost.

I agree it is a hard journey that Dany has come through, and it is harder to keep power that get it. That's why she stayed in Meereen, to learn how to rule, something that she has never been taught to do.

I doubt credibility has anything to do with her slavers negativity towards her. Dany kicked a rotten structure and came it tumbling down, they can't deal with the change in order.

Lets just say in Astapor, she let them keep Drogon, then went on to free the slaves in Yunkai and Meereen. Do you think the slavers of the 3 Slaver cities are going to lay back and say "hey she did a good deal with Astapor, she is trustworthy, I want her to rule, despite destroying my business and livelyhood." Credibility has squat to do with it.

Also would you be okay with the transaction being made, Dany and her unsullied march outside the gate of Astapor and then attack the city? Because its the same thing.

I don't think Ned would have found much if anything honorable about that kind of deceit.

Ned is not a stranger to deceit. Changing Robert's will ring any bells? Not that I disagree with what Ned did.

Anyway I think we are going off topic, probably my fault :-).

[PatrickStormborn]

Of course there is some sort of plot armour going on with Dany not losing her dragons... But I don't think it's a plot-hole, because Martin made sure to include that Dany's dragons would be under threat from other sources. Qarth was the only solution because its rulers were more "civilised" and would not want Dany's blood on their hands.

Funny how killing someone and stealing their merchandise can engender mistrust, huh?

As Daenerys pointed out during her "transaction" with the Astapori, living things are not merchandise -- be that people or dragons.

Using the word "lulz" without a hint of irony is surely worse :P

Anyway, no plot hole necessary.

Nothing makes me "lulz" more than a certain poster dominating every single Daenerys thread on this board.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

As Daenerys pointed out during her "transaction" with the Astapori, living things are not merchandise -- be that people or dragons.

If dragons aren't merchandise, why would it hurt a merchant city's credibility to kill the owner of one and steal it?

Nothing makes me "lulz" more than a certain poster dominating every single Daenerys thread on this board.

Do you ever talk about anything else, either? If so I've yet to see it.

[PatrickStormborn]

If dragons aren't merchandise, why would it hurt a merchant city's credibility to kill the owner of one and steal it?

Are we really having this conversation? Living things are not property; they are therefore not merchandise. However, killing Dany shows that they have no respect for envoys and guests.

Do you ever talk about anything else, either? If so I've yet to see it.

Probably because you spend far too much time in Dany threads, but yes, I frequently post about other things on this site, and you know this as you've replied to me on other topics unrelated to Daenerys. So I don't see your point.

[eyeheartsansa]

nobody with over 1,000 posts has any room to criticize anyone else for time spent on this forum. :lol:

I'm supposed to be working.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

Are we really having this conversation? Living things are not property; they are therefore not merchandise. However, killing Dany shows that they have no respect for envoys and guests.

Your original post explicitly said that they were a merchant city and that killing Dany and stealing a dragon (property) would hurt their trade. And yet you excuse Dany for doing basically exactly that — in this society, that's the trade. Doesn't make it right, but that's how it would be perceived.

And saying that living things in general aren't property is kind of ridiculous. So horses, livestock, dogs, cats, etc. aren't property?

[PatrickStormborn]

nobody with over 1,000 posts has any room to criticize anyone else for time spent on this forum. :lol:

I'm supposed to be working.

It's not time spent on the forum ... More the amount of time devoted to threads about Daenerys. I don't mean to cause offence but personally I find it very tiring now, as I can predict how a Daenerys thread will look without even opening it these days.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

It's not time spent on the forum ... More the amount of time devoted to threads about Daenerys. I don't mean to cause offence but personally I find it very tiring now, as I can predict how a Daenerys thread will look without even opening it these days.

Yeah, me too.

"Well it was only torture that one time ..."

"Well they had to be slavers, right?"

"They had it coming."

It goes both ways, kiddo.