A dragon in Winterfell? - Hot springs

[winters-king]

Maybe the dragon was called winter an that is where he fell!! It would change the meaning of stark words from change of season to in fact a warning of the dragon.

[Lord Tyrion's Whore]

Sometimes a hot springs is just a hot springs.

[The Idiots Lantern]

Old Nan tells Bran stories about Ice Dragons, so yeah, they do.

No she doesn't. She tells him about ice spiders.

[Not Dead Just Broken]

I tend to subscribe to the dragon heating Winterfell theory. I also think the dragon was woken up by the fire and blood of Ramsay Snow's sacking of Winterfell. I think a winged snake is a dragon. I think it woke up, was pissed off, burnt some things and then went back under the Godswood somewhere. Here's why. In AGOT, Cat describes how the hot springs keep Winterfell warm:

"The castle had been built over natural hot springs, and the scalding waters rushed through its walls and chambers like blood through a man’s body, driving the chill from the stone halls, filling the glass gardens with a moist warmth, keeping the earth from freezing. Open pools smoked day and night in a dozen small courtyards. That was a little thing, in summer; in winter, it was the difference between life and death."

Now by the time of Ramsay's wedding in ADWD, Theon describes Winterfell like this:

"It was warmer in the godswood, strange to say. Beyond its confines, a hard white frost gripped Winterfell. The paths were treacherous with black ice, and hoarfrost sparkled in the moonlight on the broken panes of the Glass Gardens. Drifts of dirty snow had piled up against the walls, filling every nook and corner. Some were so high they hid the doors behind them. Under the snow lay grey ash and cinders, and here and there a blackened beam or a pile of bones adorned with scraps of skin and hair. Icicles long as lances hung from the battlements and fringed the towers like an old man’s stiff white whiskers. But inside the godswood, the ground remained unfrozen, and steam rose off the hot pools, as warm as baby’s breath."

There's more description of people shivering in the courtyards later on. For instance:

"Tents filled the yard, half-buried in the snow."

I can buy that a lot of the plumbing that was used to keep the water flowing through the walls was destroyed in the sacking. I can't get over the fact that the courtyards themselves are filling up with snow. Everywhere but the Godswood seems to be frozen. If we assume that the pools in the various courtyards were just where the hot springs came through the earth, why have they suddenly gone cold? And why is the Godswood still warm? Well, if the hot springs were heated by something supernatural, and the sacking disturbed it, we would have an answer. The winged snake that Summer sees is the only thing that fits.

[Rider Called Egg]

Sounds like an intriguing argument to me. I like the way the argument for this theory is laid out here.

[Frey family reunion]

I think that it's more likely that it is a sign of volcanic activity under Winterfell. I think it's probably similar to the situation with the Hot Springs in Yellowstone Park in Wyoming. It's my understanding that there is always a chance that there may be a major eruption in Yellowstone. I think tying the Horn of Joramun with seismic activities is probably correct. Maybe it also will trigger an eruption under Winterfell as well. We may have a second doom occur in Northern Westeros.

[WildBlood]

No she doesn't. She tells him about ice spiders.

Sure she does... We don't hear the actual story but we hear that there is a in fact a story.

From the wiki

Old Nan’s Tales

Some of Old Nan’s tales include those about:

• The last hero
  
• The ice dragon
  
• Harrenhal and Harren the Black
  
• The Night's King
  
• Symeon Star-Eyes
  
• Wildlings drinking blood from human skulls ^[4]
  
• How the children of the forest taught the First Men to send messages by raven. ^[5]
  
• The Rat Cook
  

And also in ADWD Jon remembers Old Nan telling the story of the Ice Dragon and how cold the breath was as he stands atop the wall.

[Morienthar]

Unless there's a dead dragon under Winterfell, the Purple Eyed Kind,I doubt there are any dragons under winterfell.

[Arya_Ghostface]

I do believe that there is a 'supernatural' reason for the presence of the hot springs there, but I like to tie it better with the CotF and the First Men. It makes sense too, because the source appears to be beneath the godswood and was then distributed through the castle, so the sacking of WF would stop the flow to the courtyards but the godswood would remain warm. We all know there is serious magic power at the WF godswood, which is directly related to the CotF and the First Men, so a dragon would be a bit out of place. But what if someone did a blood sacrifice, or a series of blood sacrifices that warmed the waters? Far more likely in my opinion.

But there is definately something in the crypts of WF. I don't think it's a dragon, but something related to the CotF. They do like the underground after all.

Also I can see the volcanic origin of the hot springs. But a second Doom that destroys WF? Please no :(

[leignheart]

I think you guy seriously do way too much guessing about the dragon under winterfell theory, from evolution of dragons to the stupid comet.

1. grrm does not idly use words or descriptions in asoiaf.

2. we know dragons live a very long time in hibernation underground, from the knowledge of finding dragons in valariya, what did they eat? maybe nothing, we dont know, so dont guess, if they can survive in volcanoes then a dragon can survive in hot springs under winterfell.

3. summer saw a winged serpent breathing fire, it scared summer to where he growled and then it dissapeared, saying it was the comet is just unbelievably unintelligent, since 1. the comet wouldnt have disappeared, 2. summer wouldnt have growled at a comet that he would have seen hundreds of times by now. 3. the comet wasnt winged or breathed fire. another discription is how summer saw the dragons carnage it left as it was flying away, another hint that it was a dragon.

4. all the sayings they use during the sack such as, it was loud enough to wake a dragon, it is unmistakable that this is anything but a dragon, the fact that the amount of evidence left is so little, supports it even more, look how grrm showed us the death of all major and even minor characters so very subtly, the death of catyln, rob, ned, robert, renly, balon, drogo, i mean the list goes on and on.

5. they say someone would have seen the dragon, why? the wall itself is 300 miles long and thats the skinniest point in the north. the dragon isnt as big as a town so it could easily hide itself without being seen. we know that by the fact that they couldnt find drogon when he flew off away from meereen, no one seen him until he wanted to be seen.

im certain there is more evidence and facts that im leaving out, but this is certainly pointing towards a dragon. and ive done no guessing, ive left only facts and it all points to a lone dragon that lived presumably in the hot springs under winterfell as dragons love heat sources.

[Rashid]

i wonder...how far down did the others come? in the long night?

And i like the notion about the last battle between men and the others being at "Winter Fell", thus situating the castle.

And btw most castles in the north are built upon hot springs...but the volcanic activity behind them...and the possibility of dragons or dragon eggs being in them...is interessting.

hmmmm...im getting persuaded http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Ice_dragon

[Jessica Rogers]

a couple things:

1. maybe the hot springs keep's the ice dragon asleep and when the long winter starts the dragons wakes up. When was the last winter?

2. didn't someone still the remaining unhatched dragons egg's from targ's?

3. the comet itself could've been a herald of dany's dragons, and summer being a mythical dire wolf was showing bran what was coming.

My 2 cents:

I think lightbringing is under WF, whenever they talk about the crypts and everything, they all talk about the swords that the statues are holding or the lack there off. I think somewhere down there is the sword and Jon's going to find. and if its not lightbringer there is something important down there.

[adamski24]

I think you guy seriously do way too much guessing about the dragon under winterfell theory, from evolution of dragons to the stupid comet.

1. grrm does not idly use words or descriptions in asoiaf.

2. we know dragons live a very long time in hibernation underground, from the knowledge of finding dragons in valariya, what did they eat? maybe nothing, we dont know, so dont guess, if they can survive in volcanoes then a dragon can survive in hot springs under winterfell.

3. summer saw a winged serpent breathing fire, it scared summer to where he growled and then it dissapeared, saying it was the comet is just unbelievably unintelligent, since 1. the comet wouldnt have disappeared, 2. summer wouldnt have growled at a comet that he would have seen hundreds of times by now. 3. the comet wasnt winged or breathed fire. another discription is how summer saw the dragons carnage it left as it was flying away, another hint that it was a dragon.

4. all the sayings they use during the sack such as, it was loud enough to wake a dragon, it is unmistakable that this is anything but a dragon, the fact that the amount of evidence left is so little, supports it even more, look how grrm showed us the death of all major and even minor characters so very subtly, the death of catyln, rob, ned, robert, renly, balon, drogo, i mean the list goes on and on.

5. they say someone would have seen the dragon, why? the wall itself is 300 miles long and thats the skinniest point in the north. the dragon isnt as big as a town so it could easily hide itself without being seen. we know that by the fact that they couldnt find drogon when he flew off away from meereen, no one seen him until he wanted to be seen.

im certain there is more evidence and facts that im leaving out, but this is certainly pointing towards a dragon. and ive done no guessing, ive left only facts and it all points to a lone dragon that lived presumably in the hot springs under winterfell as dragons love heat sources.

Thank you for speaking sense. I don't see what's so ambiguous about it as the wolf describes the smoke, ash and flame, so how could he then confuse fire or the comet? In a wolf's mind having never seen a dragon it would seem to resemble a snake with wings but how it got there only GRRM knows

[iwanttoaskaquestion]

In mythology Dragons are said to hibernate for great periods of time, enforce the will of Gods and act in servitude to those they perceive to be wise.

Maybe GRRM is following existing mythology.

[HTN02]

From the World of Ice and Fire:

We can dismiss Mushroom's claim in his testimony that the dragon Vermax left a clutch of eggs somewhere in the depths of Winterfell's crypts, where the waters of the hot springs run close to the walls, while his rider treated with Cregan Stark at the start of the Dance of the Dragons. As Archmaester Gyldayn notes in his fragmentary history, there is not a record that Vermax ever laid so much as a single egg, suggesting that the dragon was male.

someone read something about this before?

[SevasTra82]

It's hard for me to imagine a dragon being in Winterfell depths. To my knowledge, Winterfell has always been about Direwolves, and Dragons have been exclusively tied to the Targaryens. None of the known history has ever connected a Stark (or the North, for that matter) to any sort of dragon. Even in the known tales of Azor Ahai, The Others, and the First Men dating back 10k years never mention any sort of Ice Dragon, or dragon that helped The Others (I would assume if it's an Ice Dragon, it would be siding with The Others?). Unless it's a simple rogue dragon. (I may be wrong on this, if my facts aren't straight please correct me).

If there was a dragon stuck in the wall (or under Winterfell), what would the point of it be, at this stage of the story? What could a random Ice Dragon bring to the current story? I don't see how it would fit or make sense. Unless of course, more is to be revealed in the coming books. Either way, outside of a random old Nan tale, I don't see it happening.

I think Winterfell was built on hot springs because it it's cold, and Old Nan just told stories of an Ice Dragon. Simple as that. I think we've gotten so paranoid about prophesies, tales etc that we are starting to nit-pick every single one, thinking that there is "hidden meanings". Sometimes, there are no hidden meanings. Sometimes, they are just Old tales and stories, simple as that.

But I'm probably totally wrong LOL

[Universal Sword Donor]

I think you guy seriously do way too much guessing about the dragon under winterfell theory, from evolution of dragons to the stupid comet.

1. grrm does not idly use words or descriptions in asoiaf.

2. we know dragons live a very long time in hibernation underground, from the knowledge of finding dragons in valariya, what did they eat? maybe nothing, we dont know, so dont guess, if they can survive in volcanoes then a dragon can survive in hot springs under winterfell.

3. summer saw a winged serpent breathing fire, it scared summer to where he growled and then it dissapeared, saying it was the comet is just unbelievably unintelligent, since 1. the comet wouldnt have disappeared, 2. summer wouldnt have growled at a comet that he would have seen hundreds of times by now. 3. the comet wasnt winged or breathed fire. another discription is how summer saw the dragons carnage it left as it was flying away, another hint that it was a dragon.

4. all the sayings they use during the sack such as, it was loud enough to wake a dragon, it is unmistakable that this is anything but a dragon, the fact that the amount of evidence left is so little, supports it even more, look how grrm showed us the death of all major and even minor characters so very subtly, the death of catyln, rob, ned, robert, renly, balon, drogo, i mean the list goes on and on.

5. they say someone would have seen the dragon, why? the wall itself is 300 miles long and thats the skinniest point in the north. the dragon isnt as big as a town so it could easily hide itself without being seen. we know that by the fact that they couldnt find drogon when he flew off away from meereen, no one seen him until he wanted to be seen.

im certain there is more evidence and facts that im leaving out, but this is certainly pointing towards a dragon. and ive done no guessing, ive left only facts and it all points to a lone dragon that lived presumably in the hot springs under winterfell as dragons love heat sources.

We have zero proof or idea that the dragons found in the Fourteen FLames were hibernating.