Patchface Prophesies

[Valkyrja]

Sea-horse is another name for a ship. :) (I'm studying for History of the English language exam and it's mentioned in my literature)

Yes, there is an Old English kenning for a ship, mere-hengest ('sea-stallion', or 'sea-steed'). :)

[jjspaceman]

"We will march into the sea and out again. Under the waves we will ride seahorses, and mermaids will blow seashells to announce our coming, oh, oh, oh."

My interpretation of this is they will all come back as wights - an idea discussed elsewhere that makes senst to me, when he refers to sea, he is referring to death (makes sense, given what he went through), so seahorses would be undead horses, perhaps the mermaids are the Others, etc.

Under the sea could also mean under the snow, since it's frozen water. The Others will blow their horns to summon the wights from under the snow. This would also fit with this one:

"The crow, the crow," Patchface cried when he saw Jon. "Under the sea the crows are white as snow, I know, I know, oh, oh, oh."

Whatever he is saying, one gets the impression that things will not go well for the Night's Watch.

As for "Under the sea the mermen feast on starfish soup, and all the serving men are crabs", perhaps that was in reference to Balon Greyjoy dying, since it was said that "He washed up two days later, all bloated and broken. Crabs ate his eyes, I hear."

The common theme with a lot of these are actions that were taken by Stannis, when he conspired with Mel to kill Balon, Robb, and Joffrey, so if something does happen to the Night's Watch, one wonders if Stannis isn't at fault somehow.

Obviously I'm a bit of a noob; I just finished the books for the first time, and have just gotten into the wikis and theories and such, so I'm sure my timelines are a bit off here and there, perhaps Pathface said some of these things after what I suggested they described happened, in which case I would be completely wrong. All this discussion has gotten me interested in re-reading them, so I can focus more on the details the 2nd time around.

[kissdbyfire]

As for "Under the sea the mermen feast on starfish soup, and all the serving men are crabs", perhaps that was in reference to Balon Greyjoy dying, since it was said that "He washed up two days later, all bloated and broken. Crabs ate his eyes, I hear."

I think this one is in reference to the Frey Pie, but maybe it's not.

Obviously I'm a bit of a noob; I just finished the books for the first time, and have just gotten into the wikis and theories and such, so I'm sure my timelines are a bit off here and there, perhaps Pathface said some of these things after what I suggested they described happened, in which case I would be completely wrong. All this discussion has gotten me interested in re-reading them, so I can focus more on the details the 2nd time around.

Welcome! I think you'll find the books get even better on re-reads, and that there are always very intersting discussions going on here. -:)

[vleeter]

I agree that Patchface is pretty sketch, but to look at every word he's said and call them prophecies is farfetched to me. Even if one thing he said looks prophetic, I just don't think you can look at the rest and be like yep this dude just spits prophecies. That said, I believe there's something up with him, but you must remember that he's a kook and employed as a jester..

[Stark@heart]

Mel sees most clearly threats to herself.

Here's to hoping :cheers: the the skulls around Patchface and his bloody lips means he eats her before she can feed Shireen to the flames/ her "stone" dragon.

[Ser Endrew Tarth]

I agree that Patchface is pretty sketch, but to look at every word he's said and call them prophecies is farfetched to me. Even if one thing he said looks prophetic, I just don't think you can look at the rest and be like yep this dude just spits prophecies. That said, I believe there's something up with him, but you must remember that he's a kook and employed as a jester..

IDK, Mel has a creepy vision in her flames of PF and even says something to the effect of "that creature makes me uncomfortable" (sorry don't have my book here) he must have some kind of role to play, although I liked someone's comment that GRRM may be just telling us that prophecy is a fool's errand by making PF spot on with his red wedding prophecy.

[Damar]

IDK, Mel has a creepy vision in her flames of PF and even says something to the effect of "that creature makes me uncomfortable" (sorry don't have my book here) he must have some kind of role to play, although I liked someone's comment that GRRM may be just telling us that prophecy is a fool's errand by making PF spot on with his red wedding prophecy.

Combined with Val's words about Shireen, I think something very ugly is going to happen.

[the Scorpion Knight]

...couldn't get on here for a while.

I think the Crabs would be reference to the Celtigars. They'd be very relevant to both Stannis, because they are sworn to him, but turned cloaks after Blackwater, and to the Manderlys because of their proximity to White Harbor.

That's interesting PT King, but I think just the opposite. That importance can be derived from unlikely sources.

the crabs could point to house magnar of skagos (they have a lobster as coat of arms amd children put them into the same pot)

Meaning either wex or lord manderly helped Rickon and osha getting there

Combined with Val's words about Shireen, I think something very ugly is going to happen.

I think the girl will have a close death expierience

[Ser Endrew Tarth]

LOL, what if Stannis did die, then queen shireen made PF her king LOL. then they could concieve a greyscale/drowned fool agen of the other...

Shireen does like PF who's practically her only companion... who thinks they've already messed around? IDK why i'm getting such a kick out of this random thought :blushing:

[kissdbyfire]

Interesting. How is Manderley feasting on Davos though? To me that implies a less than positive relationship, and here I've been assuming Manderley was all good and awesome in the Davos storyline. But if he is feasting on Davos, that does not bode well ...

Didn't the Freys go to White Harbor on a ship called the Lionstar?

[Raerin]

We will march into the sea and out again.

They will die and raise again as wights?

Under the waves we will ride seahorses

Ice spiders?

and mermaids will blow seashells to announce our coming, oh, oh, oh.

The Wall will be destroyed by the horn of winter which will initiate the invasion of the Others?

[Wood_of_the_Morning]

Maybe Jon will warg into PF ala Bran and Hodor, and PF/Jon will become the instrument of the GO.

PF is more than what he has become, but something needs to 'awaken him'.

[weegee911]

Interesting. How is Manderley feasting on Davos though? To me that implies a less than positive relationship, and here I've been assuming Manderley was all good and awesome in the Davos storyline. But if he is feasting on Davos, that does not bode well ...

they arnt feasting on davos they feasted davos secretly if you remember.

[Eluminous]

"We will march into the sea and out again. Under the waves we will ride seahorses, and mermaids will blow seashells to announce our coming, oh, oh, oh."

Seahorses could be the ships Manderly is building. He may be trying to tell people Manderly will declare for Stannis.

~~Just to take a bit of the doom out of patchface's words...

[Young Wolf's Vanguard]

"We will march into the sea and out again. Under the waves we will ride seahorses, and mermaids will blow seashells to announce our coming, oh, oh, oh."

Seahorses could be the ships Manderly is building. He may be trying to tell people Manderly will declare for Stannis.

~~Just to take a bit of the doom out of patchface's words...

His words never predicted anything good, they may or may not include Manderly but it is sure as hell they don't include anything good

War, strife, betrayal...he deals only with interesting stuff

[Trinket2]

the crabs could point to house magnar of skagos (they have a lobster as coat of arms amd children put them into the same pot)

Meaning either wex or lord manderly helped Rickon and osha getting there

I think the girl will have a close death expierience

The prophecy likely refers to the Borrells of Sweetsister who have a spider crab for their sigil and who explicitly say in the Davos POV that they sent the Freys onwards to Manderly, i.e. the merman.

The Freys come with the Lionstar, i.e. they are starfish. We also know that Manderly makes them into pies, which he feasts on.

Once I found the part about the Lionstar, I acctually thought this prophecy became pretty obvious. I don't think it has anything to do with Rickon or Osha, it's about the Frey pies.

[aelitaSF]

The seahorse is also the sigil of house Velaryon. According to some theories it means that Patchface already knows the future whereabouts of Aurane Waters and Cersei's fleet. ;)

[Jovem Corvo]

Particularly, I think this refers to the Others crossing the Wall.

"We will march into the sea and out again"

The Others can not pass throught the wall, but they theoretically can swim, cant they?

"Under the waves we will ride seahorses"

There is also that letter Cotter Pyke writted to Jon, when he said there were dead things in the water.

A march of Others swimming to Westeros. They could invade ships, as they did with Cotter's, wightficating everybody in their way.

How cool would this be? LOL

"and mermaids will blow seashells to announce our coming, oh, oh, oh."

This is uncertain.

This could mean the Night's Watch, but I don't think so.

What are these seashells? For the nature of the "prophecy" I guess is something as unnatural as the Others, and we have seen some powerful Horns recently...

I think this Magical Horn will be used in an attempt of protection.

I was wondering if the fisherfolk eat wight!fish will they become wights theirselves? o_O

Can you imagine? It will be like toxic contamination in the seafood... the Wight Flu... :drunk:

P.S.:Note that Patchface use the words "we", "our", wich indicate that he guy is really creepy, and he will probably be important for the "evil" side in the further books.

Ew! :stillsick:

[Jovem Corvo]

Oh, and let's not forget the scene where Patchface was so eager to lead the crows to rescue the wildlings at Hardhome. He wanted the most men possible to leave the Wall with their ships for death.

Ok, it all started as a joke but now I am seriously convinced of this theory.

:shocked:

[Miriel]

The prophecy likely refers to the Borrells of Sweetsister who have a spider crab for their sigil and who explicitly say in the Davos POV that they sent the Freys onwards to Manderly, i.e. the merman.

The Freys come with the Lionstar, i.e. they are starfish. We also know that Manderly makes them into pies, which he feasts on.

Once I found the part about the Lionstar, I acctually thought this prophecy became pretty obvious. I don't think it has anything to do with Rickon or Osha, it's about the Frey pies.

I really like this except I am not seeing how the Lionstar name of the ship makes the Frey's symbolically starfish. Can you elaborate a bit please? Thanks!