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Died a Hero

[BOOK SPOILERS] Which 3 men did Jamie mean?

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Will have to go with Ser Grandfather and the dogs on this one.

No doubt Loras is a good fighter, but he's not that good.

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I dont think Jaime was referring to Oberyn. Oberyn is Dornish, and as we know the Dornish usually keep to themselves. I doubt Jaime has seen Oberyn in years, and he probably doesn't cross his mind too often. Same goes for Victarion Greyjoy, whoever mentioned him. He's obvioussly talking about Walder Frey, Wyman Manderly and Janos Slynt But seriously, I'd assume he is speaking of Barristan, and possibly one or both of the Cleganes. Side note: Didn't they say Randyll Tarly was the best soldier in the realm? Or did that factor in leadership as well?

I thik that was as a general, like Ned or Twyin. Tarly does have a famous Valyerian steel blade though

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I may be bias about Oberyn, but.

He has a big reputation that someone like Jaime would recognise

He's known for having his own mercenary company

Killing a Lord in a duel at age 12 with poison

Fighting in Essos

Cersei shows doubt when she finds out Oberyn is fighting for Tyrion, Jaime may or may not have been referring to Oberyn. I'd guess he was probably saying the Cleganes and Barristan, but based on his strength book comments I'd say it's more Barristan, Oberyn and maybe someone such as Garlan. That's assuming we rule out all the people in his strength thoughts.

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It's strange how everyone remembers Loras beating Gregor but no one mentions that Sandor beat Jaime at that same tourney. It wasn't even a surprise: Renly bet on the hound and Littlefinger only bet against him because he thought Sandor would purposefully throw the match for his employer. It's also worth noting that unlike Loras, Sandor is definitely not a tourney knight.

I think the Hound is one of the three and probably Gregor too.

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I'm pretty sure his comment in the books about strength was to point out that he would beat anyone, even the people stronger than him. Garlan, Oberyn, Barristan, Loras, etc. weren't included because they aren't as strong as Jaime, not because he didn't think he would beat them.

Jaime would easily beat Oberyn or Loras.

Garlan and Barristan might be more challenging, but they would lose too.

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I'm guessing it was most likely Barristan, Gregor, and Sandor, but Oberyn could easily be swapped with any of them. Everyone who completely discounts Oberyn as just someone who poisons people seem to be forgetting that he completely outclassed Gregor. He was way too fast and way too skilled. The poison he used was also thickened as to make it slow acting and increase Gregor's suffering, which makes me unsure if the poison had any immediate effect on the fight. What everyone can be sure of, however, is that Oberyn used his superior skill to stab Gregor multiple times with his spear and would easily have won if not for being a complete moron at the end.

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I think you guys are really overrating Loras. He is a great tourney knight, but is not as good a fighter. A lot of people like to defend his loss to Brienne by saying she cheated, but all is fair in a fight to the death, and Jaime has less regard for honor than Brienne, so he would definitely cheat in a fight.

I agree with you on the Loras being overrated but it wasn't that the move counted as "cheating" It was that the move she used would have maimed her and left her in crippling pain if she used it in a real fight - leaving her open to any attack from Loras.

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Sir Loras is a badass, yes. Ser Loras beat the mountain in Ned Stark's hound tourney. If Ser Loras can beat the mountain, he has a chance at beating Jaime. Ask yourself this: How much bigger is the mountain than Loras? Then this: how much bigger is Jaime than Loras? The show has painted him as a pansy who likes men, but don't let your prejudice against homosexuals and his defeat by Brienne make you think he isn't a respected dualist and fighter.

Loras himself states in the books to Sansa that his brother Garlan is better than he is with a sword, though he (Loras) is better with a lance. Jaime with two hands was universally regarded as one of the finest swordsmen in the realm.

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I agree with you on the Loras being overrated but it wasn't that the move counted as "cheating" It was that the move she used would have maimed her and left her in crippling pain if she used it in a real fight - leaving her open to any attack from Loras.

Which means she would have probably chosen to outmaneuver him in another way in a real fight. The situation was the same for the both of them.

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It's strange how everyone remembers Loras beating Gregor but no one mentions that Sandor beat Jaime at that same tourney. It wasn't even a surprise: Renly bet on the hound and Littlefinger only bet against him because he thought Sandor would purposefully throw the match for his employer. It's also worth noting that unlike Loras, Sandor is definitely not a tourney knight.

I think the Hound is one of the three and probably Gregor too.

What does this have to do with it?

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What does this have to do with it?

I'm not really sure what you mean. People were using the tournament to justify including Loras (for defeating the mountain) but not Sandor (who defeated the actual guy the thread is about defeating).

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Jousts are a whole different thing and skill than swordfights, and Jaime was clearly talking about swordfighting, so the jousts aren't really all that relevant I must say. Barristan and the Cleganes seem like the most recurring names and this must be correct especially when using Show-knowledge. It's just a spinoff of the internal monologue Jaime had when he thought of which men were stronger than him in terms of pure strength which wouldn't have worked in a dialogue, especially 'cos some of the characters he mentions we barely know. I suspect he would also respect the skills of his Sworn brothers Balon Swann (who won the melee) and Mandon Moore who he said was the most dangerous of the King's Guard because he couldn't read him (reading your opponent is very important, ask Syrio Forel) but since these characters are extremely obscure as well the guy writing the script must have had Barristan + Cleganes in mind as well.

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Technically Martell drew with Gregor, not bad considering to only other person who gave him any trouble was Sandor and that was a no-contest. Stopped by referee.

That was in no way a draw, Gregor was still alive and Martell was dead with a crushed skull. The Mountain won.

There's no way he's thinking of the red viper, Jaime would have the same respect for a poisoner as he's got for archers/crossbow men.

I'd agree with the previous posts, Mountain, Hound and Bold.

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