(Book Spoilers) Shae/Character Motives

[bloocanary]

I have a feeling that Shae isn't going to betray Tyrion at all, he will only think that she has.

I'm thinking this is a possibility too. Or her motivations for telling the court he was behind Joffery's death are so that he'll leave for Pentos with her.

Either way, they've taken it far beyond the point where simple ambition would be believable.

[BlueQueen]

I especially hated her line about not carrying about his money. What? She is a prostitute. This show is getting ridiculous when it comes to these two. The point is the money. It's necessary for him to kill her as well as his father later. They can't have him be the perfect white knight forever on the show. I love Tyrion in the books with his flaws. This relationship nonsense with Shae is concerning. Not feeling it.

[Neuromancer]

I agree with those who say that the series has gone too far - I don't think Shae will betray Tyrion. In fact, I think they combined Shae and Tysha. So Tyrion and Shae will have a true, loving relationship, but Tywin will do something bad to Shae to demonstrate what he thinks of "whores", and in the end, that will be the impetus for Tyrion to kill Tywin.

[Woman of War]

Maybe Tyrion will murder Ros because as spy she had a part in Shae getting raped, tortured and killed....... Only crackpot.

But, seriously, Tyrion is definitely my favorite character. But I would not want his darker aspects left out completely. He is a grey character and that makes him so very fascinating, the onedimensional hero would bore me. I want to see Dinklage playing his rage, murdering the father and maybe the lover, I want to see him go down into despair, depression and alcohol - and to be reconstructed in further books.

And I am confident that Dinklage wiil be able to present the full arc of Tyrion, actually the character with the broadest spectrum of all those wonderfully multilayered people, in a gripping manner. He should get that possibility.

[famousatnight]

I think to have her betray Tyrion now would be deeply unbelievable (way more so than in the books where, to me, their relationship was obviously somewhat one-sided). So I have a theory that Shae will not betray Tyrion. She has to die obviously, but I dont think it will be Tyrion who does it.

All I could think most of the season was "I can't wait til Shae dies in Season 3 (or maybe 4) but I agree that in the last few episodes they've really taken her on the show farther than in the books. I wasn't suprised at all when I read about her in Tywins bed and Tyrion Killing her, but the way the show is going it doesn't make sense.

For the show I think Tywin will find out who Shae is now that he's in Kings Landing and will force her to testify against Tyrion, then have her killed while Tyrion is rotting in prison after his trial and Tyrion will learn about it upon escaping and that will be what pushes him over the edge and leads to him killing his father.

This will kind of piss me off as a reader, but I don't know how else they'd do it that would be believable at all given the direction they've taken with Shae in the show thus far.

[daoloth]

I guess my post got kicked off because of some strong language so I will restate it in a more acceptable manner.

Shae is a prostitute by choice in the books and an exclusive one - she would be the equivalent of todays sponsored girls - so there is no doubt about her motivation. It is because we see the story through Tyrion's eyes - it is not called pov for nothing - we think she is better than she really is.

In the show Shae follows one of many politically correct lines that haunt modern television. Notice how absolutely no female character is truly "evil" - not even Cersei. Also with the exception of Cersei no female character is even "bad". The men can be as cruel, murderous and ruthless as they want - not women. Else come lawsuits, bad publicity and news outlets yapping about how immoral and sexist the show is. Therefore it only stands to reason that Shae must be murdered by Tywin although I would love to see Cersei do something really cruel and evil at last as she promised. This in turn will have him killed. Everything in this subplot so far points in this direction. Unfortunately this will be a truly weak point of the show since betrayal of Shae really added to the dramatic side of Tyrion and would make him so much greater character on the show.

[Lady Arwen]

I agree with those who say that the series has gone too far - I don't think Shae will betray Tyrion. In fact, I think they combined Shae and Tysha. So Tyrion and Shae will have a true, loving relationship, but Tywin will do something bad to Shae to demonstrate what he thinks of "whores", and in the end, that will be the impetus for Tyrion to kill Tywin.

Yes! I think they're trying to make a hybrid Tysha/Shae (Tyshae?) to establish the poison in the relationship between Tyrion and Tywin. I think that Tywin will ultimately be at the bottom of Tyrion and Shae's falling out on the show (not so much a betrayal by Shae for money or power). They've just made her character too sympathetic for that to work. Also, they haven't dwelled on Tyrion's torment over Tysha as much as they should have, so maybe they'll somehow work that in with something similar to the Tysha situation happening to Shae.

I hope this isn't the case. I would love to see an enraged Peter Dinklage strangle Shae with the Hand's chain of office (although it's a badge on the show, which complicates things a bit). He would rock that scene.

[Rinso]

I was wondering what they will do with her character, especially after the finale.

In the show Shae is either much more sympathetic than she was in the book, or a much better actress. Cause in the books, she never pretended or claimed to love Tyrion, he conjured that up on his own because he let his feelings to spiral out control.

It was very evident that she was a golddigger even in ACOK and in ASOS she was shown to be kind of a rotten person long before she gave her false testimonies. So far, I'm seeing none of that on the screen. Heck, the "Fuck your money!" line is so out of character for Shae that it's actually funny :drunk:

We'll see how they handle the whole thing. It's a very important part of Tyrion's story, though, so I hope they won't steer too far from the books.

[Woman of War]

I very much hope they are not going to cleanse Tyrion of his darker, moody and cruel aspects. They are what makes his character compelling and I am sure that Dinklage would master that aspect to perfection.

I like the character Tyrion too much for wanting him bereft of his whole complexity.

Maybe they believe that the audiece could not deal with too much moral ambiguity of that wonderful antihero. But if the showrunners apply a fairytale morality here, meaning evil deeds can't go unpunished, they might underestimate the audience, at least I hope so. Even show-only people are imo very well able to root for a compelling character and his moral conflicts, people know that good and bad cannot be labelled so easily anymore, certainly not in RL nor in shows like Sopranos or Rome.

So there should not be a problem with a leading character to experience the full spectrum between black and white morality.

[MoonCoffee]

I feel that there's a personality jump in S2 between Shae, pre-Sansa, and Shae, post-Sansa. In the early episodes we see the Shae who's delighted at being in a big city, where she feels she belongs, but she feels bored about being confined to the Hand's tower. Her foul mouth reflects her low birth, and she's not afraid to voice out her dissatisfaction even towards her benefactor. She threw a fit at the suggestion of working in the kitchen, not backing down until Tyrion relents. Then come the first meeting with Sansa. She's ill-fit to be a handmaiden and has bad manners, such as nicking Sansa's fruit. Up to that point I feel that Shae is different from book-Shae (who's a bit better at flattering Tyrion), but still in the same track. She's a cute, selfish golddigger.

The next we see of Shae, she patches up Sansa's wound and gives the girl advice not to trust anyone, and tells Sansa that the rioters hated her because her horse eats better than they do (nevermind there are no horses in that scene :P). This is the start of me feeling that there is a missing link. Later, Shae surprises me again when she helps hide Sansa's bloody sheets, at the risk of personal safety (granted, the outcome is not explored; personally I can't see the other handmaiden not reporting to Cersei, and can't see Cersei letting Shae get away with what is plain defiance). Where is the materialistic girl who didn't care about Tyrion's dilemma and why does she now care about a highborn girl who has things she wants without having to lift a finger? Later on, in the Blackwater episode, Sansa and Shae have seemingly become bosom-buddies, and we're also shown more romantic Shae and Tyrion scenes. The culmination is the Shae-Tyrion scene at the finale, which has all the signs of a genuine romance (and she still has a foul mouth).

It may be OK to make Shae's character undergo a change, but in this case I don't think the shift is explained adequately, as if I'm just told "Shae has a good heart! She loves Tyrion!" and expected to believe. So I can't extrapolate what's happening in this season to predict how they'll address the fallout in ASoS. The only thing I can see is her testifying against him because of Cersei, because even with book-Shae I think it's the truth. Without Tyrion, she has no protector, and Cersei won't be above doing crueler things than she did with Alayaya. I do notice how writers have shied away from showing Tyrion's less virtuous deeds (with Symon, with Tommen), so I'm prepared to see the murder not taking place, like I had been prepared to see House of the Undying being totally stripped down.

[Dragon greyscale]

I think Tywin will blackmail Shae in some way. There are many possibilities for this. It seems the easiest way to get Tyrion's future actions back on track and keep faithful to Shae's incarnation in the show.. So she'll still betray him, but begrudgingly.

[SerMixalot]

i have little faith that the showrunners will get her story back on track. they have a track record of modernizing women, eliminating gray aspects of characters and simplifying relationships to the point of cliche. the way the shae storyline seems to be playing out eliminates the possibility of shae betraying tyrion or tyrion killing her. that makes for a far less intriguing show and needless in my opinion other than the writers not trusting the viewers.

I agree dinklage could tear up a dark tyrion character, like gandolfini did with T Soprano

[Cythera]

Well, the thing is, GRRM is pretty involved with the show, he even helped write some of the episodes. Much like J.K. Rowling and the Harry Potter movies, he's there for consultation in case the show goes in a direction which would conflict with the not-yet-published books of the series. This also allows for the show to hint at things that haven't even happened yet in the books. For this reason, I think we may find out something about Shae's motives later in the book series that would sort of, you know, redeem her a bit.

I know the books are rarely fluffy and heartwarming when it comes to love, but It would not be unlike GRRM to reveal that Shae's was lied to or was coerced into what she was doing (including sleeping with Tywin) thus having Tyrion once again harm a person who he loved and who might have truly cared for him too. We essentially know nothing about the motivations behind Shae's betrayal. Realistically, Shae has very little power, there's not a whole lot she could have done differently if either Cersei or Tywin got at her. She may indeed have been paid off, but I'm sure her other options were death, torture or prison. Self preservation is a strong instinct and it's seemingly all she knows. And, let's face it, Tyrion was seemingly doomed anyway.

Alternately, and I actually think this might be so: Shea may have been savvy to Jaime and Varys' plot to free Tyrion. She did have chats with Varys on occasion, and she may have been sleeping with Tywin to gain intelligence for Varys. Varys has his little birds everywhere and we know he and Littlefinger hold the strings behind the stage in King's Landing. She may even have planned on meeting up with Tyrion some time in the future and was working with Varys with the ultimate goal of getting her and Tyrion the hell out of there. I agree with some of the earlier posts that say that Shea's character is mysterious in both the books and the show, we don't really know her history, what she wants or who she's really working for. Even finding her on the battlegrounds where there was a decided lack of other whores was a little weird.

I mean, I'll be the first to admit that Book-Shae seemed much less genuine and likable than Show-Shea, but we also don't know if that was an act either... or if she's even really a whore. I fully believe GRRM might totally shatter Tyrion with the fact that he might have killed Shae for nothing, an even sadder repeat of Tysha. All because, thanks to his father, it's too easy for Tyrion to think no woman could truly care for him. We know GRRM loves his guilt, death, complex moral dilemmas and harrowing revelations. He especially likes for things to not be as they seem.

I think there are probably (mostly) decent reasons why the show writers change aspects of the books that might be too messy, internal or complicated for the screen. I also think that certain aspects of the show that have been exaggerated or downplayed might actually be hints of things that are to come in the books. Ultimately, with GRRM around for consultation, they, the show writers, probably know more about where the book series is going than we do.

[Natalie_S]

Yes! I think they're trying to make a hybrid Tysha/Shae (Tyshae?) to establish the poison in the relationship between Tyrion and Tywin. I think that Tywin will ultimately be at the bottom of Tyrion and Shae's falling out on the show (not so much a betrayal by Shae for money or power). They've just made her character too sympathetic for that to work. Also, they haven't dwelled on Tyrion's torment over Tysha as much as they should have, so maybe they'll somehow work that in with something similar to the Tysha situation happening to Shae.

I hope this isn't the case. I would love to see an enraged Peter Dinklage strangle Shae with the Hand's chain of office (although it's a badge on the show, which complicates things a bit). He would rock that scene.

I agree. There's just not enought Tysha (at least, her memory) in the show, so I think she's somewhat been merged with Shae.

Maybe Tywin will have Shae killed and Tyrion will kill him.

Then he will go completely depressed in the next season.

I guess if things go that way, it's a bit of a spoilers for book as well: it would mean that we will never see Tysha alive (because he wouldn't have any possibility to go on a questo for Shae since she'd be dead).

I also think they're whitewashing Tyrion too much in the show, which is a shame because Peter Dinklage is amazing and could definitely express all the emotions and moral ambiguity of the original character.

[Stormcatcher]

I imagine they are going to go for the angle that Shae was always a spy (for Tywin probably, which also explains why she ends up in his bed), but that she developed genuine feelings for Tyrion (and Sansa), and that's why she appears compassionate and whatnot in the series.

[daimonionen]

I imagine they are going to go for the angle that Shae was always a spy (for Tywin probably, which also explains why she ends up in his bed), but that she developed genuine feelings for Tyrion

But then why betray him?

I somewhat like this idea, though. I imagine they might have Tyrion (tragically) kill Shae not knowing that she loved him truly. But why would she ever testify against him? Her being threatened by Cersei just doesn't cut it - not the way TV/movies usually work. The viewers would be like "Whatever, bitch! You made your choice!"

[Khal Porno]

I think they did a great job of making Shae more likable. I thought she was kind of annoying in the book and served no purpose other than being a huge red flag for Tyrion. That said, her betrayal and death scene was great, and I liked that Martin left her role ambiguous, although I think she was more likely lying to try to stay alive.

My prediction for the show however is that, as others have suggested, Shae will be acting under orders from the queen and Tyrion will kill her mistakenly out of anguish. That's infinitely more dramatic than her being a shallow tart who betrays him because the price is right. Or who knows, maybe they will try to preserve the ambiguity.

[Khal Porno]

But then why betray him?

I somewhat like this idea, though. I imagine they might have Tyrion (tragically) kill Shae not knowing that she loved him truly. But why would she ever testify against him? Her being threatened by Cersei just doesn't cut it - not the way TV/movies usually work. The viewers would be like "Whatever, bitch! You made your choice!"

They might introduce a subplot where she's trying to ingratiate herself into the Lannisters' good graces in an attempt to free him. Or it could be a scenario like what happened with Ned, the Queen tells her they'll let him take the black if she testifies.

[Eye.H8.Sansa]

Shae seems to really care about Tyrion. But keep in mind, love can be volatile. What if Tyrion spurns Shae for Sansa later on? That would be enough to set Shae off on the road to betrayal.

[notakneeler]

as soon as I saw the show made the Hand"s badge of office a pin and not a chain, I wondered where they were going. CHoking Shae to death with the chain is terrible, but stabbing her to death with that little thing would be ridiculous. So- IMHO- they never meant for Tyrion to kill Shae.

I am just cruising the boards today out of nostalgia. I used to love the show in season 1 and reading all the discussion. I am done with the show now,and this transmogrification of Shae into some free city of Lorath freedom fighter is one of the main reasons I loathe the show in season 2- and logically, beyond.