Dany will Fail: Here's Why.

[Winter's Knight]

Monopoly involves cards!

Those cards are meant to be mere props to how the rest of the game is played and as such are an excellent representation of women in ASoIaF. Just as women in that time mattered only during certain occasions and for certain tasks-wedding, bedding and birthing-so too the Chance cards are only important when a player is forcee to pick them up. However just like women in the Middle Ages, for the brief amount of time that they matter to the players, the cards may change the whole course of the game.

The property cards represent serfs and are a whole different topic.

[Euphail]

Queen of Thorns anyone? That woman is AMAZING and is the power behind the Tyrells.

No women have had success? Guffaw I say!

[Zeromus]

Those cards are meant to be mere props to how the rest of the game is played and as such are an excellent representation of women in ASoIaF. Just as women in that time mattered only during certain occasions and for certain tasks-wedding, bedding and birthing...

Knitting, cooking, cleaning!

Don't sell them short!

[Winter's Knight]

Knitting, cooking, cleaning!

Don't sell them short!

You have serfs for that.

[Winterlord]

Personally, I have not really seen very many people succeed at anything n the books.

Jaime was the youngest of the Kingsguard and was renowned for his skill with a sword.

Then promptly killed his King, began a treasonous and incestous relationship with his sister. Never had any feelings for his children and was captured by a teenage boy because of his own immaturity.

Ned was a large part of the success of Robert's rebellion.

And that was about it. Really his success was staying North. Until he stopped. The he died a complete loser.

Robert won the iron throne.

And bankrupted the Kingdoms, abused his wife, got fat and generally became an ineffectual half-blind sot.

Jon slew a dead man and saved The Lord Commander.

And broke his vows repeatedly by word and deed, but was always able to assuage his guilt with petty rationalizations.

Stannis smashed the Ironmen at sea and the wildlings at the wall, as well as holding down the homefront for Robert.for a whole year.

While having gained the indifference of nearly the entire realm. Neither of his brothers respected him and he ended up enthralled to a crazy chick with a fire fetish.

Tyrion won his first trial and pretty much saved King's Landing with his battle plan.

Pretty sure Bronn won the trial. And well, I can't remember the spoiler rules for this area, but he has hardly succeeded.

Lord Tywin was an all-around badass and was successful in the Castamere rebellion, engineering the RW and a great many other things.

He put down a minor rebellion by minor house who had no support. Like a jock giving a swirly while his pals watch. His same inabilty to veiw others as human beings wich led to those successes also led directly to his death.

I like Sansa and Arya because the are evolving. I like Jamie and Jon for the same reason. What is more exciting than that to read?. All the characters are evolving.

Sure, I may dislike Dany, but that is because she is involved in things I dislike or find boring. Not because she slept with so-and-so or I am worried she might mensturate on some important edict or something.

You see, you can put any spin you want to on any character, but that spin is based on YOUR character.

[Castel]

Lord Tywin was an all-around badass and was successful in the Castamere rebellion, engineering the RW and a great many other things.

He put down a minor rebellion by minor house who had no support. Like a jock giving a swirly while his pals watch. His same inabilty to veiw others as human beings wich led to those successes also led directly to his death.

I keep hearing his, but I've never received any proof of this, iirc the Reynes were the favorites or at least in contention before Tywin came into the game. Quotes?

Honestly I think that his defeat was more shameful than that, his daughter was a wreck, his grandson had nothing but contempt for him, his heir was a dwarf then a dead man, his son, that he truly loved had lost his arm and in a cruel twist left him right when he was finally able to save him from the Kingsguard.

Stannis is fucked and may end up being flayed and castrated.

Jon's power is gone, his men have mutinied. He's probably dead too.

Pretty much no one has won that absolute victory the "Stand on the top of a hill and shout your triumph" victory. Even in terms of lesser victories we can go through the bios and give examples of women doing amazing stuff before they too fall prey to Martin. But honestly I don't want to bother because I'm half convinced that this is an attempt at trolling.

[butterbumps!]

@ Bee Diddle:

If I may ask, what is your impetus behind this thread? Do you genuinely find the depiction of women to be so egregiously problematic in the series, and you're writing the OP out of concern or disgust with that? Is it something else?

Others have been saying this as well, but I think the specific examples you've chosen as a data set are skewed and fail to take many thing into account, such as the fact that the men you list as successful have by and large died unceremoniously or have otherwise failed spectacularly. And since no one has yet mentioned this, Robb did not ride victoriously from the Twins at the Red Wedding, to add to the spectacular fails of men.

With the exceptions of Jaime, Jon and Tyrion, who seem to be fan favorite staples on here, I think I speak for many when I say that most of my favorite characters are female- that is, characters I find the most interesting, strong, competent and "good." For numerous reasons, their plots, actions and successes are often more subtle than the "in your face" battle victories you've pointed to, but I strongly believe that these good qualities are there, and that Martin has not entirely short-changed the women of the series- or at least not in the specific examples you've given.

[Zeromus]

You have serfs for that.

I wish I did.

[Winter's Knight]

I wish I did.

:lmao:

[Lord Ben]

Queen of Thorns anyone? That woman is AMAZING and is the power behind the Tyrells.

No women have had success? Guffaw I say!

Taena Merryweather also, and I don't think Maegery is as unskilled in the art of the Game of Thrones as people seem to think. The Whore of Vogarro is a cool character IMHO and has done quite well despite being a former slave in a city with severe laws on now only slaves but noble bloodlines. More restrictive than Westeros even.

It's the main characters very close to POV characters that suffer but everyone in the book does regardless of penis ownership with the exception of perhaps Littlefinger.

[pamparius]

Tyrion fails to win his trial, and Tywin failed to take a shit in peace.

You just made me LOL in class XD

edit: sorry for the off topic. I felt like it needed to be said.

[LordBloodraven]

Dany hatched 3 dragons, the only one in the known world to do so. She conquered Meereen, has her own khalasar, and an army of elite soldiers. And she's 15.

[Harby]

In aSoIaF, all of GRRM's women are prone to folly and failure. Dany will be no different.

And before I get the standard "Oh, It's because he depicts women realistically in the medieval setting of Westeros", no he doesn't just do that.

It goes deeper. I've yet to see a woman character be successful at anything they endeavor so far in the series. (Except the queen of thorns perhaps) From Catlyn's urging of Ned to go serve Robert that leads to his death, bringing the Imp to The Vale and releasing the Kingslayer for nothing, to Brienne's failure to find Sansa and Arya to the complete bungling of the affairs of The Kingdom under Cersei's rule.

With these indicators, it's safe to assume Dany will never sit the Iron Throne.

To be fair have you seen any male characters succeed at anything [Varys and Littlefinger excluded]?

Eddard died due to his honour stupidity and put his daughters in trouble.

Jon completely lost the trust of his nights watch and got stabbed.

Robb threw his kingdom and his life away for a woman.

Jamies arrogance led to him and Brienne getting captured and him losing his hand.

Tyrion's blatant disregard for authority led to him being successfully convicted of murdering Jeoff.

The Frays have brought about their own doom by hosting the Red Wedding.

Tywin alienated and abused his children so badly one killed him.

The Dornish Prince got spitroasted and doubleteamed by Danys dragons after breaking in to see them.

And many many many more.

Everyone in ASoIaF rarely succeeds at anything.

[Unhappy Starfish]

I feel that many of the woman characters are successful in their own ways, and the society of Westeros doesn't allow them to come into the forefront as easily. Cersei is one of the few that has done that, and she was clearly not very good at it. But you CANNOT judge all female characters based on the actions of one. I think it's very likely that other female characters in the novels, such as Sansa, Arianne, Arya, and more will start to have more agency about them.

[Bee Diddie]

You people fail to see the obvious.

[Lyanna Stark]

Stannis is fucked and may end up being flayed and castrated.

:crying: :crying:

Castel, you wound my heart when you say this about Stannis. How could you?

[Stanmore]

She will have a foreign army comprised of Dothraki, warriors who live to fight, burn, pillage and rape. Sellswords who are not much better. Unsullied who feel no pain and are loyal to seemingly inhuman levels. And Dragons, basically weapons of mass destruction, one ridden by an ugly little demon monkey lusting for vengeance and another possibly by a brutal reaver. Seems to me she's set to make a better antagonist than protagonist, so maybe we'll hope she fails.

Alternatively she's the underdog who started with nothing, but through natural charisma and her own force of will has asembled a rag tag army of noble savages, freed slaves, outcasts and sellswords. Her Dragons are magestic beasts of legend, Tyrion is a missunderstood, crippled genius and Victarion is a tormented warrior with a dark past and a heart full of regrets.

Or maybe thinking in such black and white terms is a little reductive :P

[Lord Damian]

Women in this series are just as capable of greatness as they are in failure, no different then men. Each come from a unique point of view and have vastly different paths to take. On top of that, they are in a world where being a woman is most dangerous. Cersei, Cat and Dany have made huge blunders but fate intervenes from time to time, Sansa, Cersei and Dany have had huge benefits from good luck where Cat and her sister Lysa fell early and lost all. The Queen of Thorns is a shadow player, playing for her Grandaughter but the best of all, whom I think is getting stronger and stronger is Arya, She has had to make her own luck and has thus become stronger for it.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

Butterbumps said pretty much what I would have.

I just want to add that threads like this are what make it hard for those of us with legitimate grievances with Dany to shake off the "sexist" accusations. So, thanks. Thank a lot.

[deleted01]

Oh dear, seeing as my vagina makes me an instant fail, I may as well give up now and devote my life to the kitchen.