[BOOK SPOILERS] Bloodriders and Handmaidens

[boojam]

Ok what's deal?

First they mess around with Aggo, Jhogo, Rakharo , I don't even know who is left? First of the season she has three, now there is only one?

Well we know about the acting career of one of those, would have not minded if he had his place taken by one other warrior in Dany's Khal, there seemed to be others.

Last year they messed with Irri, Doreah and Jhiqui... have to go back and look but seemed there three, tho not those three last year.

Now zero Handmadiens!

What's the deal, not major characters, but not minor characters.

As I have said before those 6 continue a Dothraki continuity as a spiritual undertow that George has kept through out all five novels. An essential mild enhancement trimming.

Yeah I know even more characters to be added next year, but the contracts of these characters must have been year by year. They could not have been than expensive! Their speaking roles were minimal but their presence added to the spirit, why take that away?

Odd, last scene what's left of Dany's Khal seems to still be with her.

Hope someone asks D and D about this.

[Catherine Storm]

I think they plan to send Ros there to Qarth to help Khalessi out ;)

[sennahoj]

I think they plan to send Ros there to Qarth to help Khalessi out ;)

I have exactly the same fear. I can only say "please no".

About the handmaidens though. I had totally forgotten about the third one on the show. I don't even remember in how many episodes she was supposed to be. I think it is okay for Dany to have less than three handmaidens, but none seems odd, and no Dothraki too. Maybe she will buy new handmaidens in Astapor, hell, Missandei could turn out to be Dothraki on the show.

I don't really like what they did with the bloodriders. The actor playing Rakharo was great for the part, it was such a shame to have him die. I liked his connection with Jorah too, would have been great brothers-in-arms in the future. Plus, you have no investment in the unknowns playing their replacements. The show has taken far more liberties not only with Dany's storyline (though I liked the changes), but with all the minor Dothraki roles, Jhaqo, later Rakharo, Irri, Jhiqui. Do the writers think the viewers couldn't tell the "savages" apart anyway, so that makes them more interchangeable than Westerosi? I hope not.

[victim]

I liked Rakharo. Dare I say it though, I may like Kovarro more. For some reason I find him hilarious.

The thing I found weird was that I thought her Khalasar were all brutally slain, then suddenly she has heaps again.

[boojam]

I liked Rakharo. Dare I say it though, I may like Kovarro more. For some reason I find him hilarious.

The thing I found weird was that I thought her Khalasar were all brutally slain, then suddenly she has heaps again.

Were did you get that impression?

You know I think by the end of ADwD Dany's still has something like 70 of her original Kaalasar , tho except for hand madiens and blood riders, all off page. They just seem to hang out somewhere... in all five novels.

[protar]

I have exactly the same fear. I can only say "please no".

About the handmaidens though. I had totally forgotten about the third one on the show. I don't even remember in how many episodes she was supposed to be. I think it is okay for Dany to have less than three handmaidens, but none seems odd, and no Dothraki too. Maybe she will buy new handmaidens in Astapor, hell, Missandei could turn out to be Dothraki on the show.

I don't really like what they did with the bloodriders. The actor playing Rakharo was great for the part, it was such a shame to have him die. I liked his connection with Jorah too, would have been great brothers-in-arms in the future. Plus, you have no investment in the unknowns playing their replacements. The show has taken far more liberties not only with Dany's storyline (though I liked the changes), but with all the minor Dothraki roles, Jhaqo, later Rakharo, Irri, Jhiqui. Do the writers think the viewers couldn't tell the "savages" apart anyway, so that makes them more interchangeable than Westerosi? I hope not.

They probably did. I expect we'll either get Varys sending Ros over to Dany or we'll get some random new Dothraki handmaiden with no explanation, or they'll age up Missandei so she can help Dany out.

[Horus Ex Machina]

I think they plan to send Ros there to Qarth to help Khalessi out ;)

Arrgh. I fear you may be right. I was very pissed when they killed Irri. And all to serve a pointless and horrible storyline.

They probably did. I expect we'll either get Varys sending Ros over to Dany or we'll get some random new Dothraki handmaiden with no explanation, or they'll age up Missandei so she can help Dany out.

This was part of my own pet theory that they're trying to phase out Dothraki speakers in anticipation of introducing High Valyrian so that they're not using two foreign languages simultaneously. So Irri basically is changed out with Missandei.

[Mediumjon Umber]

The way I see it the Dothraki are Dany and Jorah's redshirts. I was pretty surprised that Kovarro didn't die during XXD and Pree's coup. I was half expecting him to rush the warlock and die like a fool, which wouldn't matter much because the universal source of redshirts will never run dry.

But yeah, I think Ros will be the new handmaiden. She'll be both handmaiden and mayhaps a substitute for Strong Belwas? :P

[sennahoj]

The way I see it the Dothraki are Dany and Jorah's redshirts. I was pretty surprised that Kovarro didn't die during XXD and Pree's coup. I was half expecting him to rush the warlock and die like a fool, which wouldn't matter much because the universal source of redshirts will never run dry.

But yeah, I think Ros will be the new handmaiden. She'll be both handmaiden and mayhaps a substitute for Strong Belwas? :P

Strong Belwas? Now how would that work exactly?

This was part of my own pet theory that they're trying to phase out Dothraki speakers in anticipation of introducing High Valyrian so that they're not using two foreign languages simultaneously. So Irri basically is changed out with Missandei.

I was always under the impression that the Dothraki and their culture were an important part of Dany's character, so they shouldn't just all be replaced or replacable. actually the mysterious growth of Dany's khalasar in the last episode goes against this phasing out of the Dothraki. But as far as the language is concerned, Dany might teach her remaining Dothraki to speak the Common Tongue, so there would be no need for too much Dothraki on the show.

I concede however, that it would be confusing for viewers which language is which, if actually both Dothraki and High Valyrian featured on the show.

[SynthFG]

Early on next year we get to Astapor and pick up the little girl translator who is much more important going forward

there is no reason for keeping the hand maidens (beyond the odd lesbian sex scene) and it makes sense to ditch characters who are no longer important to the story to keep costs down

[boojam]

I concede however, that it would be confusing for viewers which language is which, if actually both Dothraki and High Valyrian featured on the show.

I would not be confused, from what I have seen Dothraki and Valyrian differ so greatly that I don't see why there would be confusion.

Besides Dany would only be speaking Dothraki to Dothraki, Jorah speaks 'common tongue' almost all the time, except when he is speaking to the Dothraki, or Dothraki in the presence of Dany.

[Arkash]

Just wanted to say: I enjoy Kovarro's character personally, since the garden party.

[victim]

Were did you get that impression?

I'd have to say it had something to do with not seeing any member of her Khalasar, other than Kovarro, between when she found them all dead and the sacking at the end of the series.

[Davos55]

I LOVE Irri and Jiqhui in the novels..and I am very very sad that "it is known" and their funny little arguments in the books are gone forever. I know those things work better when reading rather than watching, but killing them off seemed unnecessary. I am sure there was some reason, but I am not sure what it is!

As long as they include Missandei and Strong Belwas (not getting my hopes up for him) I will be more alright with this.

[Horus Ex Machina]

I was always under the impression that the Dothraki and their culture were an important part of Dany's character, so they shouldn't just all be replaced or replacable. actually the mysterious growth of Dany's khalasar in the last episode goes against this phasing out of the Dothraki. But as far as the language is concerned, Dany might teach her remaining Dothraki to speak the Common Tongue, so there would be no need for too much Dothraki on the show.

I concede however, that it would be confusing for viewers which language is which, if actually both Dothraki and High Valyrian featured on the show.

My theory wouldn't require the phasing out of all Dothraki characters, just characters like Irri, that Daenarys would have to speak to on a regular basis. So instead of Irri, you have Missandei. Doreah, of course, doesn't play into this at all, but she should have been dead a long time ago. She merely gave the entire new storyline an extra antagonist.

Strong Belwas? Now how would that work exactly?

Well, she'd still joust the Hero of Mereen, only in a different way.

Just wanted to say: I enjoy Kovarro's character personally, since the garden party.

Well it seemed that losing Rakharo was not in their plans, so perhaps maybe Kovarro is going to stand in for this role as her chief bloodrider. Which only makes the killing of Irri seem even more pointless.

And Jhiqui just seemed to disappear entirely after the first season though she never did much even then. It would have made more sense to kill her off since she never really did much but echo Irri even in the books. Irri had a much closer (literally) relationship with Dany, even though I know that we weren't likely to see any of that in the show she was still one of Dany's closest companions. It just doesn't make sense to lose both of the handmaidens who chime in with their Dothraki opinions on her actions from time to time.

[CuddleMeLoki]

Was looking forward to the scene, you know what i mean :cool4:

[Horus Ex Machina]

I would not be confused, from what I have seen Dothraki and Valyrian differ so greatly that I don't see why there would be confusion.

Besides Dany would only be speaking Dothraki to Dothraki, Jorah speaks 'common tongue' almost all the time, except when he is speaking to the Dothraki, or Dothraki in the presence of Dany.

Yeah but you've also read the books, right? I imagine that they'd use a certain intonation to differentiate the two languages such as making Valyrian sound like Latin or some such, but you may be overestimating the average viewer in believing that they can tell the difference. I guess the best example for this would be The Passion of the Christ which used two languages that are very unfamiliar to the modern world in Aramaic and Latin, moreso with the former. Of course most people could see that Aramaic had an Arabic feel to it and Latin sounded alot like Italian. There was also the context, Romans spoke Latin, and Jews spoke Aramaic. But alot of people still complained about this.

These two languages in the show sound like nothing in our world so it may be a bit more difficult than that, excepting the context. Still I wouldn't doubt that alot of tv watchers want things a bit more simplified for them, or at least DB & DW might assume that they do, and so don't want to be wondering what language is being spoken at a particular moment.

[Mulled Wino]

As was mentioned, as long as Strong Belwas is cast and cast well, I am willing to overlook much and more.

[boojam]

Yeah but you've also read the books, right? I imagine that they'd use a certain intonation to differentiate the two languages such as making Valyrian sound like Latin or some such, but you may be overestimating the average viewer in believing that they can tell the difference. I guess the best example for this would be The Passion of the Christ which used two languages that are very unfamiliar to the modern world in Aramaic and Latin, moreso with the former. Of course most people could see that Aramaic had an Arabic feel to it and Latin sounded alot like Italian. There was also the context, Romans spoke Latin, and Jews spoke Aramaic. But alot of people still complained about this.

These two languages in the show sound like nothing in our world so it may be a bit more difficult than that, excepting the context. Still I wouldn't doubt that alot of tv watchers want things a bit more simplified for them, or at least DB & DW might assume that they do, and so don't want to be wondering what language is being spoken at a particular moment.

Yes I am a reader of the books, some of them more than once.

Yes I saw The Passion of the Christ, and no I was not confused about the difference between Aramaic and Latin, I thought the use as an artistic device was about the only thing good about that lousy film.

Anyway, from this point onward not really much Dothraki is spoken, only to her hand maidens, who , I guess!, are all gone, unless that mysterious disappearing one shows up again, and her blood riders.

If one thinks there would be confusion between Dothraki and High Valyrian there are various plot devices that could be used.

For instance , she picks up Missandei, who I don't remember knows Dothraki, Dany could have a tiny scene where she starts to teach Missandei Dothraki, since as I remember Missandei speaks High Valyrian, Dany could show her the difference.

If there are member of the audience to stupid not to notice the difference, they will probably be the ones who would not care anyway.

High Valyrian plays a role later in Dany's strategy.

[Horus Ex Machina]

Yes I am a reader of the books, some of them more than once.

Yes I saw The Passion of the Christ, and no I was not confused about the difference between Aramaic and Latin, I thought the use as an artistic device was about the only thing good about that lousy film.

Anyway, from this point onward not really much Dothraki is spoken, only to her hand maidens, who , I guess!, are all gone, unless that mysterious disappearing one shows up again, and her blood riders.

If one thinks there would be confusion between Dothraki and High Valyrian there are various plot devices that could be used.

For instance , she picks up Missandei, who I don't remember knows Dothraki, Dany could have a tiny scene where she starts to teach Missandei Dothraki, since as I remember Missandei speaks High Valyrian, Dany could show her the difference.

If there are member of the audience to stupid not to notice the difference, they will probably be the ones who would not care anyway.

High Valyrian plays a role later in Dany's strategy.

I don't think that there should be any confusion, but I'm not so sure that HBO is certain that there won't be. So, like I said before, it's mainly a personal theory of mine, but I think that they may want to limit spoken Dothraki if they are planning to use spoken Valyrian. I know about the strategy that Dany uses in book 3 which is why I'm thinking that they will use it. I'm just not sure if the ruse will be as apparent to the audience if she's shown speaking Dothraki in front of the Ghiscari. HBO might think that some of the audience may not be able to tell the difference. Who knows how it will be handled in practice.