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Hmadkour

[TWOW Spoilers] Miscon reading : two Winds of Winter chapters

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Actually Catelyn overheard the killer of her son Robb at the Red Wedding say one very cutting line which we must assume the ever-verngeful Lady Stoneheart took very seriously and very literally. Dear Roose Bolton (or so I presume), has false incriminated our dear Jamie before Catelyn.

A man in dark armor and a pale pink cloak spotted with blood stepped up to Robb. "Jaime Lannister sends his regards." He thrust his longsword through her son’s heart, and twisted.

Actually I think it is merely an ironic reference of Roose's part to Jaime's parting words to Roose Bolton before leaving Harrenhal for King's Landing. Jaime of course knows nothing of the Red Wedding to come or his Father's hand and means his words in an entirely different context.

Both parties left Harrenhal the same morning, beneath a cold grey sky that promised rain. Ser Aenys Frey had marched three days before, striking northeast for the kingsroad. Bolton

meant to follow him. "The Trident is in flood," he told Jaime. "Even at the ruby ford, the crossing will be difficult. You will give my warm regards to your father?"

"So long as you give mine to Robb Stark."

"That I shall."

And so a terrible and ill-fitting fate laid down for Jaime, ever the one of misattributed deeds, by a misunderstanding and perhaps the one and only moment we see humour from Roose Bolton.

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No,she is a light to him. As long she lives (acts in order to help him restore his honour) so does he. So,she is instrumental.

I like this idea too

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First off, I haven't been on the forum or any ASOIAF related thing, since my exams start monday, and political problems that remind me of ACOK are raround (yes, more Egyptians need to read ASOIAF) so, you're welcome everyone. I haven't been able to read all of the posts since time is short lately, so forgive me if this has been said before:

Let's not forget that we're reading GRRM and not JRR Tolkien or JK Rowling. Eddard Stark seemed to have a bigger part to play - tell Robert about Cersei, legitimize Gendry, tell Jon about his mother.... Maybe Jaime's hand will be reanimated my Thoros of Myr, and he will be the downfall of the Lannisters (unless you believe my other theory that a Reyne still lives), but whatever his part to play is, George can easily kill him off. Pod could take his place in that, and get revenge for what the king did to Ilyn (I don't remember whether Robert or Aerys cut his tongue out, sue me.) Whichever it was, he could lead the BWB against fake Aegon, or maybe Daenerys, if not Cersei.

What's actually bothering me and making me think a lot, is Jon's fate. Jon is my favorite character, followed by Tyrion, and I hated to wait between ACOK and ASOS to find out his fate, as much as I hate the wait to find out Jon's fate.

Why do people think Pod even gives a damn about Ilyn? Or that he would give two shits about "getting revenge" for something that Aerys did (that Ilyn actually got off easy for) and would hold his "son" responsible for it?

Aegon literally has nothing to do with it...I doubt he knows about it even. What is get going to say, "Hello, my name is Podrick Payne, your crazy father cut the loose tongue out of my shit talking uncle instead of killing him, prepare to die" ...many more people have been much more grievously wronged in these books,,,,to think Pod even thinking or want to "avenge" Ilyne missing tongue I don't honestly thinks even ranks up there at all

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Yes there is. We see her walking around in Jaime's last chapter. Therefore, someone must have revived her.

No. But he does see her walking and talking.

Are you trying to prove she was not hanged? We know she was hanged. We were there.

Exhale or Inhale, what's the difference. If your air passages are blocked, air cannot move in EITHER direction. Duh!

One cannot scream when one's throat is being fatally constricted by a rope. It was hurting her worse than anything she had ever experienced, and this from a girl who is a projessional warrior and who has recently had half of her face chewed off. That, to me, strongly suggests she is past the screaming stage.

Do you just make up crack pot theories to mess with people or is this actually something you believe?

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Actually Catelyn overheard the killer of her son Robb at the Red Wedding say one very cutting line which we must assume the ever-verngeful Lady Stoneheart took very seriously and very literally. Dear Roose Bolton (or so I presume), has false incriminated our dear Jamie before Catelyn.

Actually I think it is merely an ironic reference of Roose's part to Jaime's parting words to Roose Bolton before leaving Harrenhal for King's Landing. Jaime of course knows nothing of the Red Wedding to come or his Father's hand and means his words in an entirely different context.

And so a terrible and ill-fitting fate laid down for Jaime, ever the one of misattributed deeds, by a misunderstanding and perhaps the one and only moment we see humour from Roose Bolton.

Oops ! I'm on my first re-read, not there yet, I totally forgot about that. Thank you !

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Why do people think Pod even gives a damn about Ilyn? Or that he would give two shits about "getting revenge" for something that Aerys did (that Ilyn actually got off easy for) and would hold his "son" responsible for it?

Aegon literally has nothing to do with it...I doubt he knows about it even. What is get going to say, "Hello, my name is Podrick Payne, your crazy father cut the loose tongue out of my shit talking uncle instead of killing him, prepare to die" ...many more people have been much more grievously wronged in these books,,,,to think Pod even thinking or want to "avenge" Ilyne missing tongue I don't honestly thinks even ranks up there at all

People don't need valid reasons to be angry at people, it is often impossible to see an act that hurt yourself or someone you care about as fair. Look at the Lannisters with regards to Jaime. Can you justify in anyway trying to kill a 6 year old boy? No. But the Lannisters couldn't at all justify punishing Jaime for trying to kill a 6 year old boy.

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Do you just make up crack pot theories to mess with people or is this actually something you believe?

I think that sometimes too, but a lot of people are not current on some of the things GRRM has said, and thats mostly because they don't read through an entire topic before posting. In this instance the person you quoted clearly was not aware that GRRM has confirmed both Brienne Pod are alive due to Briennes shouting sword.

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People don't need valid reasons to be angry at people, it is often impossible to see an act that hurt yourself or someone you care about as fair. Look at the Lannisters with regards to Jaime. Can you justify in anyway trying to kill a 6 year old boy? No. But the Lannisters couldn't at all justify punishing Jaime for trying to kill a 6 year old boy.

no people certainly don't need "rational" reasons to "hurt" others (just open the newspaper)...but there does not seem to be any evidence Pod even gives two shits about about Illyn...what so ever...I would certainly think Pod's motivations and loyalties would be much more in line with say Brie'ene's or Tyrion's than for him to have any desire to hold the wrong person accountable for something in my opinion Illyn at the very least deserved. Considering the place and times he should have been killed for his big mouth.

It just seems to be way out there and random and serving no purpose for him to avenge Illyn's missing tongue to be considered...doesn't it? You don't think he has a million other things to want to do first if that was on his list in the first place? Remember that he is wanting to become a knight..and holding someone else accountable for yet someone elses (which was actually more than fair action all things considered) is MOST definitely NOT something an honorable knight would do.

The Payne's don't seem overly close to each other or concerned with an insane sense of false family honor....

If you are talking about the Frey's on the other hand...holding a yet unborn baby "responsible" for something his father's father did (in all honesty, justly in my opinion...even if it was just cutting out a tongue) then MAYBE I could see it...but only (if Pod was a Frey) and being a Frey- someone as effed up and utterly lacking morals and self esteem and any honor as the Freys are....but Freys aside...I really doubt it.

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no people certainly don't need "rational" reasons to "hurt" others (just open the newspaper)...but there does not seem to be any evidence Pod even gives two shits about about Illyn...what so ever...I would certainly think Pod's motivations and loyalties would be much more in line with say Brie'ene's or Tyrion's than for him to have any desire to hold the wrong person accountable for something in my opinion Illyn at the very least deserved. Considering the place and times he should have been killed for his big mouth.

It just seems to be way out there and random and serving no purpose for him to avenge Illyn's missing tongue to be considered...doesn't it? You don't think he has a million other things to want to do first if that was on his list in the first place? Remember that he is wanting to become a knight..and holding someone else accountable for yet someone elses (which was actually more than fair action all things considered) is MOST definitely NOT something an honorable knight would do.

The Payne's don't seem overly close to each other or concerned with an insane sense of false family honor....

If you are talking about the Frey's on the other hand...holding a yet unborn baby "responsible" for something his father's father did (in all honesty, justly in my opinion...even if it was just cutting out a tongue) then MAYBE I could see it...but only (if Pod was a Frey) and being a Frey- someone as effed up and utterly lacking morals and self esteem and any honor as the Freys are....but Freys aside...I really doubt it.

I agree that there seems no reason for Pod to go after anyone for what happened to Ilyn, but it wouldn't surprise me if GRRM had him do something crazy

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I think Brienne will lead him to an ambush where he'll be killed by other members of the BWB. She's trapped in a shitty situation, she has to choose betweeen saving an innocent boy's life, or the life of a man who has done lots of evil things, but saved her from a horrible fate.

No way Jaime dies anytime soon. My theory is that he is the volanqar and chokes Cersei. And more stuff has to happen before that happens. I think Brienne might get into some shit and be forced to compromise her honor- she will either go back on her word to Uncat, or she will end up freeing Jaime and getting away herself to go do something new. I doubt it will be the end for either of them. It seems to abrupt and almost anti-climactic.

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I had a crazy thought now - what if theyare going to turn Jaime into Unjaime? He still can be a volanqar in that case

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I had a crazy thought now - what if theyare going to turn Jaime into Unjaime? He still can be a volanqar in that case

I doubt it. It seems like there is a price to revive someone, and it wouldn't be done if that person was hated. Why revive Jaime when the whole world hates him? The BWB simply wants him hanged for being who he is. I don't think they would go to all that trouble to UnJaime him. PLus, what would the initial purpose be?

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After reading through this entire forum, it seems like most people are giving Pod a lot more credit than I ever did while reading the books. But after digesting it all I sort of think that Pod could actually be the real Aegon. Only if Aegon is actually a fake, which I am still not convinced of.

There is no way Jaime or Brienne is going to die in WOW, maybe they will both die in ADOS but there has been soooo much build up for them it just seems unlikely, plus Martin hasn't killed off anyone who holds the POV except Ned Stark in Book 1, and Cat, but she is still around, so that doesn't really count. why would he start with Brienne and Jaime?

Jaime has totally come around from the most hated character to someone we actually root for, and now he is clearly in love with this ugly monster of a woman which makes him even more enduring. And jaime is absolutely the person who is going to kill Cersei. They have to die on the same day as they were born on the same day. If I had to pick who would die in the intertwined group of ppl it is Sansa and Littefinger. i think brienne somehow got the info the Sansa is in the Vale and her and Jaime are headed there now, maybe the BWB is going to be headed there as well and there will be a showdown of some sort. What I really want to know is what are UnCat's motives at this point? Is she still intent on seeking her children or has she adopted the BWB intentions to bring justice to all wrong doers?

trial by combat is definitely still an option that UnCat has to respect and let happen if it is wanted. what else would all Jaime's training with Ilyn be for? He is going to demand trail by combat and they will let him because he seems weak with one hand, and he will beat whoever it is.

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Oh for the love of god, please no more un-characters!

I don't thin kthere will be anymore Un-characters, beric and Cat are going to diminish soon anyway, the uncharacters seem to be rather weak in their hearts and will turn into terrible zombie's soon, Beric says he never eats and can't remember anything anymore. it's not a very good option no matter how you look at it. I think Uncat is the alst one, Jon snow is NOT going to be an UN character I know it I know it!!!

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Not going to read through all 16 pages, but in case this wasn't mentioned:

Cersei keeps wondering if Jaime will return. More than a few times did she keep the thought fresh in her POVs in TDWD. Therefore, I am willing to bet that he does come back, but with the intent to kill her. That, or at least he'll be against the Iron Throne. It's possible that fishing for one of unCat's daughters is another likely scenario.

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