[TV / Book Spoilers] What made you stop watching the show?

[Chaircat Meow]

Tywins horse crapped on the wrong place!

I know the show is nominated for an Emmy for both of it's two seasons and is pretty much acknowledged to be by far the best Fantasy television series of all time, yet Tywins horse crapped on the wrong spot, and this ruined all the immersion I had in this series!

Seriously, though. Stopping watching the show because you feel a clear drop in quality is explainable, stop watching because of details that probably can be explained due to limitations are not.

I don't think anyone has ever said they would stop watching because Tywin's horse wouldn't do a poo.

And sometimes its not quality or limitations that are the problem, its changes to stories and characters that aren't due to limitations and would appear to play out well on tv. Jon's story is probably the best example. The HotU was, by general admission, un-filmable, so its not such a good example.

[Winter In My Heart]

I don't think anyone has ever said they would stop watching because Tywin's horse wouldn't do a poo.

And sometimes its not quality or limitations that are the problem, its changes to stories and characters that aren't due to limitations and would appear to play out well on tv. Jon's story is probably the best example. The HotU was, by general admission, un-filmable, so its not such a good example.

Agreed. I still thought they could have done a little better with HotU though.

[Chaircat Meow]

Agreed. I still thought they could have done a little better with HotU though.

Yes, I was disappointed too but I wasn't that surprised by it. I don't really want to pick fights over Dany's story because I do think there were some real problems transferring some of that to tv. Still, I thought they could have done better.

[Winter In My Heart]

Yes, I was disappointed too but I wasn't that surprised by it. I don't really want to pick fights over Dany's story because I do think there were some real problems transferring some of that to tv. Still, I thought they could have done better.

Yeah same here. Her story was very disappointing. The only thing I had a real problem with was the way they had her behaving. She didn't do the whole exclaiming she would take what was hers until book three I thought. She just seemed rather out of character for book/season 2. But yeah I'd said Jon/Robb arc's massacured was what really bothered me with the HotU as my second disappointment. But I'm kind of tired of the 'arguments' about them so meh.

[jazzytakara]

From interviews the impression is that he wants the show to follow the novels as much as possible.

But he might have told D&D some stuff about alternative character paths I guess. I can't remember anyone ever mentioning this.

In an interview he apparently has told those in charge of the television show information on the last two books in case something happens to him, he doesn't want anyone to finish the books for him, but he apparently has given information so the television show could continue on. I heard about the interview from a secondary source, so I am unsure of the validity of the interview, but aside from that I haven't heard much about what direction he'd like to see the show go in.

In gerneral the series is so complex the television producers, writers, etc. truly need to be careful when adding changes. Especially since the series has yet to be complete, if they accidentally change or leave out the wrong thing, it could be detrimental to future events in the series. That's the main thing I worry about when a televsion series/movie is based on something not complete. Silly example, but during the Harry Potter films, in particular the third, love interests were introduced before they were completely realized in the books...I know it could be worse, I just don't want to see A Song of Ice and Fire suffer from poor production choices.

[SecretNegative]

I don't think anyone has ever said they would stop watching because Tywin's horse wouldn't do a poo.

And sometimes its not quality or limitations that are the problem, its changes to stories and characters that aren't due to limitations and would appear to play out well on tv. Jon's story is probably the best example. The HotU was, by general admission, un-filmable, so its not such a good example.

Thing is, however, if you feel like changes in the story is a problem to you, try this: Read the books, and try to acknowledge this is a different story. Sure, sometimes I don't get changes at all and they feel rather clumsy and awkward, but if you think there's an apperent drop of quality, no one is forcing you to watch it, and critique is welcome. But when someone goes "I hate this because it's different", it doesn't really fly well with me.

A lot of people don't seem to realise the limitations there exists when filming, and therefor they argue over things that quite frankly they have no idea over. I don't like the Talisa-crap either, but I don't consider it an "abomination" (which hopefully is just hyperbole), but as the saying goes, it's now over 'til the fat lady sings. And it'll take a while before she sings, it's remarkable how many people seem to declare death on the show based around scenes that perhaps were altered because of limitations, and not the creators will to see fanboys weep.

Season 2 is kinda like ADWD for me, there's a couple of storylines that're badly handled (or not as good handled as they could have been), but I still like it because of the awesome storylines that happends. Sure some things were badly written (such as the Talisa backstory), but I still love the show because of the set design, the characters, the acting, the writing, the costumes, etc. So many people tend to overlook all the good things and just focus on what's bad, or rather, changes they didn't like.

People just need to lighten up and appreciate all the good things, it's makes it a lot more enjoyable show to watch.

[Chaircat Meow]

Thing is, however, if you feel like changes in the story is a problem to you, try this: Read the books, and try to acknowledge this is a different story. Sure, sometimes I don't get changes at all and they feel rather clumsy and awkward, but if you think there's an apperent drop of quality, no one is forcing you to watch it, and critique is welcome. But when someone goes "I hate this because it's different", it doesn't really fly well with me.

That's nice, but no one is forcing you to read any of this stuff. If you don't like it you can always stop.

A lot of people don't seem to realise the limitations there exists when filming, and therefor they argue over things that quite frankly they have no idea over.

I was saying people tried to take this sort of stuff into account when criticizing.

I don't like the Talisa-crap either, but I don't consider it an "abomination" (which hopefully is just hyperbole), but as the saying goes, it's now over 'til the fat lady sings. And it'll take a while before she sings, it's remarkable how many people seem to declare death on the show based around scenes that perhaps were altered because of limitations, and not the creators will to see fanboys weep.

I doubt it was all due to limitations is all.

Season 2 is kinda like ADWD for me, there's a couple of storylines that're badly handled (or not as good handled as they could have been), but I still like it because of the awesome storylines that happends. Sure some things were badly written (such as the Talisa backstory), but I still love the show because of the set design, the characters, the acting, the writing, the costumes, etc. So many people tend to overlook all the good things and just focus on what's bad, or rather, changes they didn't like.

People just need to lighten up and appreciate all the good things, it's makes it a lot more enjoyable show to watch.

If people don't want to be as cheery as you that's their affair.

[princethomas]

Rob marrying for lust instead of honor.

Umm. Im sorry. Wasn't it Lust that got him into that predicament with Jeyne?

I don't think a lot of you appreciate just how different telling a story in print is from telling it visually. Its not just about time, and its not just about you can't tell what people are thinking. Stuff comes across differently when its described vs. when its just shown.

I think what they did with Lady Tulisa vs. Jeyne was great. The situation in the book with Jeyne is fine. Because you can have numerous conversations about it in addition to hearing Catelyn's thoughts about it. I think it would go over terribly on screen. Robb just shows up with a wife? It wouldn't come off as honor it would come off as stupid. It would also seem very contrived. Like they just pulled this out of their butts to put Robb at odds with his mom and the Frey's.

With Lady Tulisa, they presented us a likable character. She's highborn but doesn't care about that. She hates slavery and war. Robb falls in love with her. On screen thats an easy way to make him seem noble.

I love these books, but I haven't seen much in the way of changes that I haven't at least understood, if not flat out liked. Changing Arya to Tywin's cup bearer instead of Bolton's was brilliant. It added real tension and let us get to know Tywin better.

[telecasterjory]

I am not sure if I am even allowed to comment here, but one way to find out. I find this topic thread a legitimate source for discussion. I however was not a reader until after watching both seasons. So the show was good enough to get me to the GRR Martin novels. I have two sons in their twenties who are both slightly dismayed by the changes in the TV version of the books. I myself am coming at this from the other direction. I truly love the books and I find the third book,ASOS which I am halfway through absolutely spellbinding. I never knew it could be this exciting to read a book and I have been an avid reader for almost five decades. I found the differences in ACOK very interesting, yet I could understand because of budget why the changes were made. The Kingslayer is one of those characters that specifically have been fascinating in the depth of character revealed in the novels. Arya is not such a loveable little waif, far from home in the books as she is in the novels. She is a nasty little girl, but I still love and root for her character. The books are better IMO, but their is a granduer to HBO's version that is undeniable. The real test, for me, will come when HBO's season three is broadcast next March. By that time I may be rereading the entire series. In any event I find both forms of media, great entertainment.

[Chaircat Meow]

I am not sure if I am even allowed to comment here, but one way to find out.

I think you'll be ok!

Anyway, welcome to the board.

[Zabuza]

I've read that Ros was meant to stand in for 'the red headed whore' as well as other protistures.

Since we haven't seen Chattaya I am assuming she has taken the role.

I also heard the GRRM may be planning to write her charcter into later books to tie her more so into the series.

I really hope your just trolling, if the plague that is Ros spread to my books. I would probably sacrifice WINDS to Rh'llor.

[telecasterjory]

Thanks for the welcome Bran, so glad to have found this forum.

[Raja]

Hopefully I don't get shit upon for saying this , but my gripes with the Robb and Talissa arc are minimal . I don't think what happened in the books works well when you put it on the screen. You can't have Robb go away for half the season and show up married , if you do it that way people won't be invested in his character at all ( people who haven't read the books ) It works well on paper as we hear plenty of stuff with Cat regarding Robb as well as stuff from the first book which establishes that relationship , her inner monologue about Robb her first born yada yada helps as well. That's why I don't begrudge any of the Robb and Talissa stuff. You'll have no relationship to speak off with Robb if he's not there for half the season , my thinking is that they have snippets of him with Talissa and with Cat to build up that character and make viewers feel something as we lead up to RW. Being invested in Robb is the only way you're ever going to feel his death and the manner in which it takes place. In a broader sense , I don't think the series has "destroyed " any characters for me , but then again I've only started reading the books after watching the first season . Apologies if it's brought up before. I can understand why people would be pissed off at changes , I was too but I've watched the series again and honestly think it's not as bad as it's made out to be.

. Jon's story is probably the best example. The HotU was, by general admission, un-filmable, so its not such a good example.

I agree I'm not sure why they went with that , out of all the plot line I thought they would stick with that one quite closely. I can only reason it out that maybe they built the Jon & Ygritte scenes in season 2 as they may not have time for that in season 3. But that in itself sounds like a stretch .

On a completely different note I was a tad disappointed about how Arya's story ended , I would have wanted to see some sort of resolution to all those Tywin / Arya scenes but for some reason they just left that hanging

At the end of it , the TV series needs to stand on it's own from the books , and given how it's gone so far I certainly think it's doing a good job. Sure my favorite lines may be missing ( and i may throw a fit if the exchange between Tyrion and Oberyn Martell is cut out ) but I think they are doing a good enough job given the vast amount they need to fit in there

There was one thing which I felt would have been easy to change , Cat letting go of the kingslayer after she finds out about Bran and Rickon . In the show she ends up doing it before she finds out , it's strange why they went with that choice . But if anyone has any idea do let me know!

[unRobert]

It amazes me how many television production experts post on this forum. And yeah, any changes I didn't enjoy are definitely due to my own limitations in not understanding that books and television are different. This is an amazing insight, and I love reading it at least once on every page in the TV section of the forum.

[the titan of westeros]

I still dont buy the whole rob and tulisa thing they could have made us understand because in the show its not all about pov characters. They show rob plenty when catelyn isnt around they even have scenes between bronn and the hound tossed into the mix of things ( a good scene by the way). The show could have easily show him wounded storming the crag, finding out about bran and rickon. Then they introduce jeyne who helps nurse rob and ....... Then for honors sake they get married that works great in my mind i think it would have worked in the show but they would of needed a sexy jeyne not an innocent one (you know how hbo works, nudity or youre not hired).

[Raja]

It's not merely about understanding that relationship , I don't think you'ed be invested in Robb as a character if he's missing for half the season . What they might have done is perhaps start with Robb storming the Crag early on and then go along with how it in the books. I would think that would have worked , but I don't know.Maybe they felt it wouldn't . I'm just trying to find reasons why they would go with what they did with regards to Robb. On a side note I don't think the Hound and Bronn scene was good at all , I'm not sure what purpose it served. But i suppose you have to check on all the characters before the war starts.

[Daske]

It amazes me how many television production experts post on this forum. And yeah, any changes I didn't enjoy are definitely due to my own limitations in not understanding that books and television are different. This is an amazing insight, and I love reading it at least once on every page in the TV section of the forum

I raise your sarcasm with the irony that the people who are the real the experts (running the show) get the most criticism from the non-experts.

[Zabuza]

I raise your sarcasm with the irony that the people who are the real the experts (running the show) get the most criticism from the non-experts.

Well the Pervy expert that "speaks for the pervy side of the audience" should be done away with as he is probably the one who suggested Ros. I don't know anyone who watches the show or was hooked because of the TnA.

[KnightOfDragonstone]

I really hate it when people are being all snobby and compare book and adaption with every detail. I agree that season 2 doesn't follow the book as well as the first season did, but that's because the first book is a lot more simple and it doesn't get really complicated till the second book. Also, the added scenes were great, though I can agree that some stuff like Littlefinger's "psychopath" scene was really out of place. In the end, it's all about how nitpicky you are, the show is great for what it is, it doesn't matter if that's not exactly like the book.

[Winter In My Heart]

I really hate it when people are being all snobby and compare book and adaption with every detail. I agree that season 2 doesn't follow the book as well as the first season did, but that's because the first book is a lot more simple and it doesn't get really complicated till the second book. Also, the added scenes were great, though I can agree that some stuff like Littlefinger's "psychopath" scene was really out of place. In the end, it's all about how nitpicky you are, the show is great for what it is, it doesn't matter if that's not exactly like the book.

I think most people don't care about it being 'exactly like the books'. I know some people have expressed that but from what I can tell most of the people who complain don't care if it's an exact adaptation. I agree people shouldn't be extremely nitpicky but there are changes that just seem unnecessary or didn't have to be so drastic and that's what I, and others, don't like. Jon, Dany, and Robb are the primary ones I don't like. Though now that you mention it I didn't particularly care for the Littlefinger thing and making him be stupid and openly tell Sansa he would help her or that they're making both Cercei and Tywin more sympathetic as well as make Jamie a Kinslayer. But yeah the show is still great and everything I just think they could have done better on certain arcs (the three mentioned above) and also not have downplayed Cat as much as they did. But none of that is going to make me personally stop watching. So yeah I agree it's really good for what it is and better than most everything on tv I just wish they wouldn't be so extreme with some of their changes they make from the book.