Am I the only one who thinks Aegon stole Danys thunder?

[total1402]

I mean I was really looking forward to Dany getting back to Westeros after she had finished the side show in the East at Mereen. Then this guy shows up and just waltzes into Westeros and conquers the Stormlands when Westeros is ready to fall apart. WTF. That was going to be the main event in Danys story now theres just some guy getting all the Lords to push the broken Lannisters off the Iron Throne. It just makes what Dany does in Mereen seem even more trivial and irrelevent; since the main event of her joining the game of thrones is hijacked and now dictated by what this Aegon does in Westeros. Hes also the legitimate heir and means shes just the gal with the dragons now whos going to show up at some point.

IMO I think GRR Martin wanted to put some Targarians into Westeros without putting Dany or her dragons in before she has resolved stuff and prophecies in the East. It would have been pretty odd if she had just dropped out of the sky in the last book unexpectedly to everyone. But it just doesn't work, it reduces Dany's eventual return to just being, what, the heavy cavalry for this silver haired jerk? Plus, my impression was that the Targs enemies in Westeros were going to put up a fight, not collapse and make it so a few thousand mercenaries could overun a whole Kingdom and then have one of the biggest houses ready to join them. Which only makes Danys laborious efforts over all these books to get an army and take it to Westeros just seem incompetant by comparison if it was that easy to do. My impression was that invading Westeros was nothing to be taken lightly even with Dragons. I get that there are circumstantial reasons and practical limitations to Dany going. I get that introducing the dragons is a big thing plot wise. But the speed with which Aegon achieves these things only makes it clear just how much Danys plot has just floundered and been filler.It also hijacks what were plot points that the books built up expectation and which only fall flat when a random Targarian achieves them in the space of a single chapter.

[The Lost Lord]

Well we're going to see a clinic of "good invasion vs. bad invasion."

Good invasion: Time your arrival when Cersei has driven away all her allies, so you'll become savior of Westeros. Lords and smallfolk will flock to your cause. Use a sellsword army of Westerosi exiles, familiar family names. Win the support of Dorne, some Reach lords, and perhaps even the Vale. Kneel to the High Septon and win the Faith Militant. Sit the Iron Throne.

Bad invasion: Time your arrival after Cersei has already been deposed by your alleged nephew who has a better alleged claim than you. No lords or smallfolk will flock to your cause. Use an army of magical monsters, foreign eunuchs, freed former foreign slaves, Dothraki, and ironborn, along with a kinslaying kingslaying noseless dwarf. Lose the support of Dorne forever after they hear exaggerated tales of how you drove their prince to barbecue himself, and after you cast doubt on the claim of the pretender they just backed. Pledge yourself to the foreign Red God. Have no plan for how you'll feed the tens of thousands of foreigners you're bringing to a starving continent. Deliver death and destruction to Westeros until you're eventually defeated or deposed.

[total1402]

Has she not had a hard enough time of it in ADWD? :frown5:

But thats not my main issue, its just that I was really looking forward to the look on every lords face when she arrived with three dragons and an army. Thats not going to have the same impact if theres already another Targarian who has trod this road and won. Its really anti-climatic for me.

[Faint]

Bad invasion: Time your arrival after Cersei has already been deposed by your alleged nephew who has a better alleged claim than you. No lords or smallfolk will flock to your cause. Use an army of magical monsters, foreign eunuchs, freed former foreign slaves, Dothraki, and ironborn, along with a kinslaying kingslaying noseless dwarf. Lose the support of Dorne forever after they hear exaggerated tales of how you drove their prince to barbecue himself, and after you cast doubt on the claim of the pretender they just backed. Pledge yourself to the foreign Red God. Have no plan for how you'll feed the tens of thousands of foreigners you're bringing to a starving continent. Deliver death and destruction to Westeros until you're eventually defeated or deposed.

I'm actually really looking forward to this scenario and seeing how she deals with it. It is quite a mess. I think the key is for her to gain the support of the North, which is certainly possibly if Jon is her nephew and her future husband. That might get her the Riverlands and/or the Vale through Sansa, depending on how her story goes. Daenerys won't care about the Westerlands and, if she does, she has Tyrion to deal with it (which isn't as bad as it sounds if you consider that Jaime and Cersei might be dead at this point). Dorne is the tougher proposition, especially if Arianne ends up marrying Aegon and Daenerys kills the latter (along with Quentyn's death hanging over her). The only way to make recompense for that might entail offering Arianne marriage to Jon (which hopefully would make up for what happened to Elia and Quentyn).

[Bright Blue Eyes]

I'm actually really looking forward to this scenario and seeing how she deals with it. It is quite a mess. I think the key is for her to gain the support of the North, which is certainly possibly if Jon is her nephew and her future husband. That might get her the Riverlands and/or the Vale through Sansa, depending on how her story goes. Daenerys won't care about the Westerlands and, if she does, she has Tyrion to deal with it (which isn't as bad as it sounds if you consider that Jaime and Cersei might be dead at this point). Dorne is the tougher proposition, especially if Arianne ends up marrying Aegon and Daenerys kills the latter (along with Quentyn's death hanging over her). The only way to make recompense for that might entail offering Arianne marriage to Jon (which hopefully would make up for what happened to Elia and Quentyn).

I'd guess Jon would sooner cut it off than marry his aunt* while breaking his vows. He's much more Stark than Targaryen.

The rest is wishful thinking as well.

* crazy, homicidal, fire-obsessed aunt no less.

[Faint]

I'd guess Jon would sooner cut it off than marry his aunt* while breaking his vows. He's much more Stark than Targaryen.

The rest is wishful thinking as well.

* crazy, homicidal, fire-obsessed aunt no less.

Actually, given the Targaryen policy of inbreeding, he is, quite literally, more Targaryen than Stark, much more, in fact. But I get your message. I imagine you'll have a really rough go of it as you read the rest of the series, though.

[Bright Blue Eyes]

We'll see. Neither of us knows what will happen in Winds and Dream.

[Mulled Wino]

Did I miss something? Storms End fell?

This post would be pretty funny if they get stomped out in the Stormlands and Dany hears about it whenever she gets to Westeros. Then she'll really be ready to serve some fire. Lets not forget Tyrion is basically the one who sent them over too early.

[Ferrous]

Actually, given the Targaryen policy of inbreeding, he is, quite literally, more Targaryen than Stark, much more, in fact. But I get your message. I imagine you'll have a really rough go of it as you read the rest of the series, though.

Culturally Jon is a Stark.

[Jaimeisnotazombie]

Has she not had a hard enough time of it in ADWD? :frown5:

But thats not my main issue, its just that I was really looking forward to the look on every lords face when she arrived with three dragons and an army. Thats not going to have the same impact if theres already another Targarian who has trod this road and won. Its really anti-climatic for me.

That look will be there still, because she has dragons, one look at them and u will go holy shit. No one will care about danny or her army just the dragons.

i hope she trips and dies before she ever reaches the soil, so annoying and half mad

[Melpomene]

It is kind of a bummer, mainly in account that a powerful female ruler possibly suddenly is pressured to just step aside on and/or everyone else drops her on behalf of the male heir....once again the boy takes priority over the girl. Not only was he directly the child of the Crown Prince, but also the "right" gender to some views, which doubly goes against Dany.

Love her or hate her, she went through a harsh childhood, rough brother, was treated as weak and understimated, been through a lot in regards to her marriage and the Dothraki's, had to learn within herself, had to build up her merit, and build up her support by her own accord - which took a number of years to achieve. And while her decisions were a mix of greatness and failure, she still had to make them (While just a kid at that) and a huge chunk of them were incredibly serious. She had it longer and harder overall.

But here is a boy who shows up out of nowhere, had the luxury of a protected and educated life with good trusted guardians, has yet to make any serious ruler-status type decisions and gets immediate support without doing much. He is also arrogant and haughty. His geneology is even questioned, at least Dany's doesn't have to be.

And especially since it seems Aegon doesn't even have to prove himself so far, while Dany constantly had to.

I hope Aegon won't have it easy. I hope he faces repurcussions just the same, face some sort of growth at least somewhere. I hope people (In the ASOIAF world) would properly consider him because of potential/skills or lack of it. Otherwise, yeah, it would be disapointing if he swoops in easily within a few chapters, overriding Dany's four books worth of trials and fights.

If I had my sappy way, Aegon would have decided to go Dany, and have them work together. I mean seriously, it is the most logical for them, the two of you are the last true Targs on earth...what a waste to actually try and kill each other.

On the side, I am VERY curious on how she will react that she has a living long lost nephew up in arms to gain the throne for himself.

[Caelestis]

Melpomene, I get your point and the situation with 'Aegon' is, in a way, immensely unfair to Dany, but I'm not sure I entirely agree with your post, at least in regards to gender. If Daenerys had been a man, Aegon would've still gained priority. As long as the people believe that Aegon is the actual son of Rhaegar, he would've always had the biggest claim to the throne.

But I would argue that, while it's unfortunate for Dany (who probably is the last true Targaryen, aside from possibly Jon, since I believe that Aegon is most likely a Blackfyre), what George R. R. Martin has done is a brilliant reversal, that goes against all standard Fantasy tropes.

He set up Daenerys to become this big, dragon-riding saviour of Westeros at the end of AGoT, but while her support may still be critical in regards to defeating the Others, she will instead be seen as a horrible enemy. As pointed out by The Lost Lord, contrary to the 'noble' Aegon, swooping in as the dashing young prince to save the day from the complete breakdown of Baratheon/Lannister/Tyrell rule, Daenerys will not only be considered a strange foreigner wielding dangerous magic and siding with enemies of the realm, but a usurper herself. In the eyes of the common folk, Daenerys will have no more claim to the Iron Throne than Stannis does (who, ironically, actually has the best claim of all).

I suspect that this is going to put the North, in particular, in a bad position.

I predict that Aegon will be surprisingly succesful in TWoW, taking the Storm Lands, gaining an alliance with Dorne and, by saving the Reach from Euron's Ironborn and possibly Margaery getting unjustly executed (while Cersei gets away with her own trial thanks to Robert Strong), which will greatly upset the Tyrells, he'll gain their support as well. With the conflict between the Lannisters and the Tyrells (and Varys working behind the scenes), Aegon will easily be capable of taking King's Landing. If, on top of that, Varys installs another Lannister (namely Tyrek) to take control of the Westerlands, stays on the side of the High Septon, promises to restore Edmure Tully to the dominance of the Riverlands and Aegon marries Sansa (a potential heir to the North and the Riverlands, with ties to the Vale), he'll gain the loyalty of almost every lord in the realm.

By then, if the Boltons fall and they also get a Stark like Rickon back in Winterfall, the northern bannermen would probably be willing to side with Aegon as well. But when the invasion of the Others finally comes, the North will be taking the brunt of it and Daenerys' dragons are the only weapons capable of stopping them.

This will land the North in a very awkward position, probably forcing them to side with Daenerys, causing another Dance of the Dragons between Aegon in the South and Daenerys in the North, forcing the North to become the enemy of the Iron Throne again, even if they don't want to.

I think it's quite an interesting reversal that none of us could've seen coming at the start of the series. It's also a way for George R. R. Martin to show that all of history only depends on your perspective, giving us insight into someone who will, in the future, probably only be seen as 'an enemy' from the eyes of the Westerosi. It's tragically ironic, in a way, but quite fitting to complete Dany's story arc, in my opinion.

[total1402]

Did I miss something? Storms End fell?

This post would be pretty funny if they get stomped out in the Stormlands and Dany hears about it whenever she gets to Westeros. Then she'll really be ready to serve some fire. Lets not forget Tyrion is basically the one who sent them over too early.

Hes poised to do it, I can't really see him failing after introducing a character like that. Once you have Storms End, they'll join him.

[Max Stark]

This will land the North in a very awkward position, probably forcing them to side with Daenerys, causing another Dance of the Dragons between Aegon in the South and Daenerys in the North, forcing the North to become the enemy of the Iron Throne again, even if they don't want to.

I hope by the end of Winds, Dany will have realized that ruling Westeros isn't the most important thing. After Mereen she might have enough of intrigues and ungrateful citizens. She and her dragons are propably the most effective weapon humanity has against the Others. Like Stannis and Jon, I think Dany has enough heart and honour to see that the Others are the real enemy, the Iron Throne is only a toy for those who do not care about the real threat.

[total1402]

That look will be there still, because she has dragons, one look at them and u will go holy shit. No one will care about danny or her army just the dragons.

i hope she trips and dies before she ever reaches the soil, so annoying and half mad

Not if everyone knows Dragons are there and everyone is anticipating her dragons arriving. The presence of a Targ, possibly on the Iron Throne just doesn't make the cross-over as interesting or as dramatic. The shock value has already happened and is gone, its just a question of when. Also as you point out it just makes her the delivery device for the dragons. Part of her story was meant to be the first Targ to return to Westeros and retake the throne for her family. In that sense Aegon has definetly stolen her thunder because hes already arrived and well on his way to achieving these things.

A lot of people hate Dany and I don't get why that is. The character hasn't been proactive and has made mistakes like in ADWD especially because G RR Martin wants the character to be in that position. As Aegon shows if he wanted Dany in Westeros he could have done it very easily. You shouldn't confuse that with hating the character or thinking shes weak and incompetent. Plenty of characters in these books have done horrible and equally stupid things. I don't get why you and so many others single Dany out for this fact.

[Rinso]

Did I miss something? Storms End fell?

Attention. Alledged spoiler from an Arianne chapter from TWOW:

Seriously, if you hate spoilers, now's the time to turn back.

"Aegon" takes Storm's End and Arianne is sent to treat with him and take his measure.

Stealing Dany's thunder was the very essence of the idea that Tyrion gave "Aegon" and co. How successful "Aegon" will be overall remains to be seen, but Dany is still too far and deals with too many messes in Essos. I predict she won't make it to Westeros in TWOW either and by ADOS it may be too late for her.

[Max Stark]

With all the the snow in the north and all the chaos in the south, I do not believe in another north vs south conflict. The northern armies already are hardly able to move and there is even more winter coming in the next two volumes. The Others will be there first and the North will not have the power to fight them on their own, let alone take part in any southern wars.

[total1402]

I hope by the end of Winds, Dany will have realized that ruling Westeros isn't the most important thing. After Mereen she might have enough of intrigues and ungrateful citizens. She and her dragons are propably the most effective weapon humanity has against the Others. Like Stannis and Jon, I think Dany has enough heart and honour to see that the Others are the real enemy, the Iron Throne is only a toy for those who do not care about the real threat.

Dany does not know about the others. Why that impact her thinking? The whole point of ADWD is that she makes a collossal mistake in staying in Mereen because she has a sense of duty to the slaves she liberated and her vision with Quiathe is specifically about telling her that her true goal is to return to Westeros where her real subjects are.

The Game of Thrones has involved most stories, plots and almost every character. Only a few sections have mentioned the Others. In the eyes of the reader, what happens there is very important, the larger meta-story of the others arriving doesn't change that and I don't see why it should even when they become a larger part of it.

[total1402]

Stealing Dany's thunder was the very essence of the idea that Tyrion gave "Aegon" and co. How successful "Aegon" will be overall remains to be seen, but Dany is still too far and deals with too many messes in Essos. I predict she won't make it to Westeros in TWOW either and by ADOS it may be too late for her.

A big mistake for me IMO. Killing stuff in Essos, no matter how epic, isn't going to compensate for dragging on this pointless filler just to make a little joke about how Dany arrived too late. Thats just the author being an ass if that happens, especially if her not getting there seems incredibly contrived since Dany seems to have had a much harder time of it in just about everything whilst YG just gets a few boats and sails. What does this delay even accomplish? The expectation of her return gets really damaged by Aegon doing the job himself and she can't even get her soldiers to Westeros as we've been repeatedly told. Even Vic lost half of his fleet without being laden with starving soldiers. But hes able to do it easily?

[Free Northman]

Well I completely agree with the original poster.

As much as Daenerys isn't a favorite character of mine, the arrival of Aegon out of the blue makes Dany's long awaited return a complete anti-climax.

That's the main reason I cannot accept Aegon as being who he says he is.

But even if he proves to be a fake, the fact is, the surprise Targaryen return that everyone was waiting for will now no longer be a surprise. It will just be yet another Targaryen claimant arriving to squabble over Westeros - yawn.

It would have been dramatic if it was Dany against the usurper Lannisters.

It is now merely repetitive if it is first Aegon against the Lannisters and THEN Dany against whoever remains on the Throne.