Which great family has the most effective military?

[Dimadick]

While the Starks do seem to have tactical superiority. I would have to say the Tyrells have the most effective army.

Their sieges of Storm's End aren't too impressive. Blockade runners managing to provide food supplies to the besieged population, no apparent way to cut off the water supply of the castle, and no known agents within the walls. Resulting in prolonged sieges and the besieging force being pretty much trapped in the region.

[Summer is Ending]

Their sieges of Storm's End aren't too impressive. Blockade runners managing to provide food supplies to the besieged population, no apparent way to cut off the water supply of the castle, and no known agents within the walls. Resulting in prolonged sieges and the besieging force being pretty much trapped in the region.

Not that I think it's the Tyrells necessarily but one ship captained by the most regarded smuggler in the land isn't that much of a failure for their naval blockade.

[Daemon Dagoghlor]

The Tyrells obviously have the largest force and it seems like they would be much more effective if Mace wasn't always trying to take charge and just let Tarly and Rowan run the show militarily.

[Lord Warhammer]

Their sieges of Storm's End aren't too impressive. Blockade runners managing to provide food supplies to the besieged population, no apparent way to cut off the water supply of the castle, and no known agents within the walls. Resulting in prolonged sieges and the besieging force being pretty much trapped in the region.

Its the fact that they are effective that matters. A siege takes at least some of the forces away from your opponent and the case for Storms End see the post by Summer is Ending. You don't need to have your entire army for a siege just enough to keep your enemy under wraps. With an army the size of the Tyrells this won't spread them too thin, leaving the rest of you army to fight elsewhere. The outcome is you being effective win,lose or draw you are effective in your occupation of enemy fighters. I didn't say they were the greatest just the most effective. Even if its through sheer numbers.

[Djinn]

In GoT, Arya POV, chapter 32:

''How many guards does my father have? she asked him as they descended to her bedchamber.

Here at King's Landing? Fifty.

You wouldn't let anyone kill him, would you? she asked.

Desmond laughed. No fear on that count, little lady. Lord Eddard's guarded night and day. He'll come to no harm.

The Lannisters have more than fifty men, Arya pointed out.

So they do, but every northerner is worth ten of these southron swords, so you can sleep easy.''

So 20000 Northman are the equivalent of 100000 southerners. And the North had more then 20000.

As for loyalty, are the Northman more loyal then Westerlanders or Valesmen? What signs of disloyalty did these have showned so far?

[WakeTheDragon]

Honestly I think the Greyjoys. Even though they only dominate the sea literally no other house can even touch them.

[Bright Blue Eyes]

In GoT, Arya POV, chapter 32:

''How many guards does my father have? she asked him as they descended to her bedchamber.

Here at King's Landing? Fifty.

You wouldn't let anyone kill him, would you? she asked.

Desmond laughed. No fear on that count, little lady. Lord Eddard's guarded night and day. He'll come to no harm.

The Lannisters have more than fifty men, Arya pointed out.

So they do, but every northerner is worth ten of these southron swords, so you can sleep easy.''

So 20000 Northman are the equivalent of 100000 southerners. And the North had more then 20000.

As for loyalty, are the Northman more loyal then Westerlanders or Valesmen? What signs of disloyalty did these have showned so far?

And Arya was quite furious that he had lied to her. As far as I remember she kicked his corpse, lying next to a single Lannister corpse.

[Djinn]

And Arya was quite furious that he had lied to her. As far as I remember she kicked his corpse, lying next to a single Lannister corpse.

That's because she's a ungrateful brat. He had just died trying to protect her father. Not his fault the Lannisters cheated by not linning up in a orderly line for the Northman to killed them.

Anyway, this is clear proof that without treachery, Robb's Northman could easely defeated the Lannister-Tyrell alliance.

Love the Stark propaganda drones.

[EdricBaratheon]

If Mace wasn't leading the Tyrell hosts on recent sieges then yeah the Tyrells would have the strongest force. The fact that he lacks the military minds of Tarly just hinders his force. I think the Dornish may surprise us soon enough.

Yet every faction of the seven kingdoms with their own armies have their strengths and weaknesses...

[Lion of Judah]

IMO the Vale which had guys like Blackfish and Corbray.

[LucionLannister]

Anyone who thinks the Starks are the best militarily is crazy. Historically their only accomplishment is not losing to the Andals, and I'm willing to bet that was mostly geographic.

In the War of Five Kings they do nothing impressive. They beat Jaime Lannister's host by surprise, when it was split up into separate camps. Roose loses to Tywin. And they they take Stafford Lannister's untrained troops by surprise and pillage the undefended Westerlands. Then the Glovers get destroyed taking Duskendale. Their only actual battle they won without surprise was when Ser Rodrik beat Dagmer Cleftjaw or when Ramsay beat Ser Rodrik by deceit. They are not impressive.

And loyalty? Rickard Karstark abandons Robb Stark, Roose Bolton betrays him, and clearly Barbery Ryswell would love to see the fall of House Stark in ADWD. The Greatjon's huge loyalty doesn't make up for the lack of loyalty in other bannermen. The only ones worse in loyalty is possibly the Stormlords, and they had a complex situation.

[Ramsay Gimp]

Anyone who thinks the Starks are the best militarily is crazy. Historically their only accomplishment is not losing to the Andals, and I'm willing to bet that was mostly geographic.

In the War of Five Kings they do nothing impressive. They beat Jaime Lannister's host by surprise, when it was split up into separate camps. Roose loses to Tywin. And they they take Stafford Lannister's untrained troops by surprise and pillage the undefended Westerlands. Then the Glovers get destroyed taking Duskendale. Their only actual battle they won without surprise was when Ser Rodrik beat Dagmer Cleftjaw or when Ramsay beat Ser Rodrik by deceit. They are not impressive.

And loyalty? Rickard Karstark abandons Robb Stark, Roose Bolton betrays him, and clearly Barbery Ryswell would love to see the fall of House Stark in ADWD. The Greatjon's huge loyalty doesn't make up for the lack of loyalty in other bannermen. The only ones worse in loyalty is possibly the Stormlords, and they had a complex situation.

I agree about the loyalty, but have to take issue with how you characterize their fighting skill. Winning a battle through treachery or surprise is no vice - in fact, it's how good commanders go about it. Robb's defeat of Jaime was very impressive for that reason. Through skillful use of deception and the elimination of Lannister scouts, they left Jaime basically blind. What would be "impressive" to you? 4,000 men charging 15,000 unified men with plenty of warning? That's stupidity, not skill

[WiDMNDBAMMD]

House Targaryen.

Dany

unsoiled

dragons

sellswords

darthaki

freedmen

knights in training

Aegon

Gold Company of sellswords

Elphants

heh

Dany and Dragons

Egg and Elphants

[LucionLannister]

I agree about the loyalty, but have to take issue with how you characterize their fighting skill. Winning a battle through treachery or surprise is no vice - in fact, it's how good commanders go about it. Robb's defeat of Jaime was very impressive for that reason. Through skillful use of deception and the elimination of Lannister scouts, they left Jaime basically blind. What would be "impressive" to you? 4,000 men charging 15,000 unified men with plenty of warning? That's stupidity, not skill

I'm not saying its bad. I'm just saying, compared to, say, 'regular' military tact it's doesn't take genius to know its better to surprise people. Like when Tywin Lannister strategically places the Mountain clans in when he was fighting Roose Bolton, intending for them to route and then having plans for Kevan to take the Starks who might try to fill the gap in a young men's over eagerness.

Basic point: Robb Stark knowing that surprising people is good isn't necessarily ingenious. Any one should know that.

[The Frosted King]

I'm not saying its bad. I'm just saying, compared to, say, 'regular' military tact it's doesn't take genius to know its better to surprise people. Like when Tywin Lannister strategically places the Mountain clans in when he was fighting Roose Bolton, intending for them to route and then having plans for Kevan to take the Starks who might try to fill the gap in a young men's over eagerness.

Basic point: Robb Stark knowing that surprising people is good isn't necessarily ingenious. Any one should know that.

You are being dense. We never get that microview of the battle plan because the only pov we have with Robb is Catelyn, and shes not going into battle to give us that on the ground perspective. Had Greatjon been a pov, that would likely change.

[Lord Damian]

I think that depends on where they are, Dorne is powerful in Dorne but out of their homeland, it may be different, Same with the Vale, North and to an extent, The Westerlands. The Iron born have the best naval capabilites and their strenght is landing troops, hitting hard and getting back out. Only when other houses stack up against them with ships are they vulnerable. The Reach is in open ground but they have huge numbers.The Riverlands are the weakest, like the old judea/Palestine etc. they are the crossroads that always seem to be trampled over. The strongest though, the Lannisters, Gold counts as strength and they can do a lot of damage with their gold.

[Yukle]

The vast majority of all soldiers in Westeros are made of normal folk, not career soldiers. Strategy is nice but all things being otherwise equal, the biggest and healthiest army wins.

That would mean the Baratheons since they have the Stormlands and Crownlands although I suppose the Tyrells may have direct lordship over more people in the Reach.

[Pod The Impaler]

I'd say the North. Most bang for the buck, so to speak. The north is ferocious, grim, and breeds survivors. Every city and village is bristling with warriors ready to answer the call, needing no knighthoods to prove themselves. Even the women are fierce and fearless. The Starks embody all this, and rule it. Brandon (respected hard-ass warrior), Eddard (commanding armies in the rebellion and siege of Pyke), Benjen (1st ranger), and even Lyanna (definite she-wolf and possible KOTLT).

The next generation? Robb and Jon and Arya (and maybe Bran if he wasn't crippled, and Rickon if he wasn't pre-school age). Only Sansa is really not a warrior.

Comparing the others:

Lannisters: Tyrion has the battle smarts if not the skill. Jaime has a ton of skill, and only recently began to use his head. Tywin ... not incompetent, but overrated. Grotesque political backstabs put him where he is. Who else have we got ... Tygett was known to be a pretty nasty warrior. Lancel ? Well, he tries; probably doesn't shame himself in terms of skill, but he's no Jaime. Kevan ? We haven't seen him actually make war, at least not on his own. Devan ? Unknown. Stafford - a bungler. Joffrey? Hopeless despite plenty of high-quality training. The Lannister military seems half made up of guys like the Strongboar who are decent warriors, but not too bright as commanders, and then monstrous goons like the Cleganes and Amory Lorch.

Arryn (Vale): I place them at the average. We really can't tell at this point. Royces and Corbrays seem to be good at warfare, but House Arryn itself ? Forget it.

Tyrells (Reach) - Garlan and Loras make a case for a House that at least imparts some skill to their own members. House Tarly ? Well, that's just Randyll - maybe he's good because he's obsessive. Samwell certainly doesn't keep up the average. They have some competent other bannermen (some Hightowers and such) but I also see a lot of resources being used which seem to produce little effect.

Baratheon (Stormlands) - Robert is a standout for this house. Stannis is no slouch, but likely a better general than warrior. Ranl;y ? Forget it. The likes of Jon Connington, Barristan Selmy, etc. prove they do have some worthy bannermen there. But in personal terms, I wonder if the Baratheons rate highly. After all - lesson #1 is cohesion, and Robert, Stannis, and Renly never learned to operate as a team, and divided the loyalties of their bannermen as well. Two of them might still be alive if they understood the importance of a united effort.

Tully (Riverlands) - House Tully's great warrior is the Blackfish. Edmure doesn't shame himself but is not a "big picture" sort of guy. They do have a lot of powerful bannermen (Freys, Mallisters, Blackwoods, Brackens, etc.). Combined together these do okay, but they don't seem to have much unity or decisiveness. Maybe it was different when Hoster was young.

Martell (Dorne) - House Martell seems to command a fairly tough force. I guess grim determination goes a long way. Oberyn was clearly a great warrior, and it seems the Sand Snakes at least are skilled. Plus bannermen like house Dayne, Yronwood, etc. have some very skilled folk. Effective ? Well, at defending or ranging long distances, I imagine they are. However since the question was "military" not "army", let me point out that for all the importance of sea travel for getting around Dorne (often literally), their apparently lack of naval capability is pretty lame.

House Greyjoy (Iron Islands) - Aside from the North, this is the other notably battle-oriented culture in Westeros. The Greyjoys seem a suitably belligerent family to rule the place, and none of them seem inept at battle - however, strategy seems too hard a concept for most of them. The other Houses such as Harlaw probably keep them on their toes, since leadership of the islands is not guaranteed. All men can fight, and most seem to enjoy it, so they are tough warriors in any fight, but take them too far from the sea and they wither.

[Yukle]

Tyrells (Reach) - Garlan and Loras make a case for a House that at least imparts some skill to their own members. House Tarly ? Well, that's just Randyll - maybe he's good because he's obsessive. Samwell certainly doesn't keep up the average. They have some competent other bannermen (some Hightowers and such) but I also see a lot of resources being used which seem to produce little effect.

Baratheon (Stormlands) - Robert is a standout for this house. Stannis is no slouch, but likely a better general than warrior. Ranl;y ? Forget it. The likes of Jon Connington, Barristan Selmy, etc. prove they do have some worthy bannermen there. But in personal terms, I wonder if the Baratheons rate highly. After all - lesson #1 is cohesion, and Robert, Stannis, and Renly never learned to operate as a team, and divided the loyalties of their bannermen as well. Two of them might still be alive if they understood the importance of a united effort.

These two houses have the largest populations, though, and commanders mean very little once battle actually begins. Strength of numbers seems to be the most important factor and these two houses have just that, especially since the Baratheons control the Crownlands, too.

[Batman]

In GoT, Arya POV, chapter 32:

''How many guards does my father have? she asked him as they descended to her bedchamber.

Here at King's Landing? Fifty.

You wouldn't let anyone kill him, would you? she asked.

Desmond laughed. No fear on that count, little lady. Lord Eddard's guarded night and day. He'll come to no harm.

The Lannisters have more than fifty men, Arya pointed out.

So they do, but every northerner is worth ten of these southron swords, so you can sleep easy.''

So 20000 Northman are the equivalent of 100000 southerners. And the North had more then 20000.

As for loyalty, are the Northman more loyal then Westerlanders or Valesmen? What signs of disloyalty did these have showned so far?

Well, Desmond certainly wins the pissing contest, but I am still taking the hound over him with a sword.